Christian band that have left the christian lyrics behind?

Haha that probably was before the like option was available.

nice an healthy judgement still in this "scene" good to see.. lol

https://youtu.be/hbTple1mkbY?si=xYyLy_lZftvH5R62

This topic makes me think of this song.

As a former Christian who still believes in God and enjoys Christian music, I find it fascinating the varying degrees of responses people have to Christian bands who went totally secular or soft on their stance with their beliefs. I used to be one of those people who judged them. Now that I have deconstructed, I find it incredibly brave of folks like Dale Thompson and Jimmy Brown to go on their own spiritual journey and implement their views in the lyrics of their music. It might be a hard pill to swallow but I think most Christians are starting to have a more liberal view of God and his ACTUAL unconditional love towards people and not be so "strict" in their dogma.

Many people are indeed moving further away from traditional Biblical Christianity. This is not based on any new discovery of truth about God, however, but due to the liberalization of secular culture seeping into the church like a virus. You can’t make up a God in your own head that conforms to your worldview, you must conform your worldview to the true God as He has revealed Himself.

Genuine question: to anyone who has “deconstructed” and formed their own heterodox beliefs about God, what are these beliefs based on? Any actual revelation from said God, or ideas of what YOU want God to be that originated in your own mind?

seth wrote:Genuine question: to anyone who has “deconstructed” and formed their own heterodox beliefs about God, what are these beliefs based on? Any actual revelation from said God, or ideas of what YOU want God to be that originated in your own mind?

I'd be happy to answer that but feel this is not the appropriate forum to discuss this. That being said, I'll give a short answer - the beliefs are based on what I know and have discovered so far and always evolving but never at any point do I feel my searching or wandering condemns me or alienates me from the love of God even for one second.

petrafan007 wrote:

seth wrote:Genuine question: to anyone who has “deconstructed” and formed their own heterodox beliefs about God, what are these beliefs based on? Any actual revelation from said God, or ideas of what YOU want God to be that originated in your own mind?

I'd be happy to answer that but feel this is not the appropriate forum to discuss this. That being said, I'll give a short answer - the beliefs are based on what I know and have discovered so far and always evolving but never at any point do I feel my searching or wandering condemns me or alienates me from the love of God even for one second.

If any part of your theological beliefs include the words “I feel,” you are going down a dangerous road. Feelings are extremely deceptive and unreliable, and God never intended them as a means to gain knowledge about Him. Sorry if it seems like I’m attacking you, not trying to, I say this because I care about you.

petrafan007 wrote:

seth wrote:Genuine question: to anyone who has “deconstructed” and formed their own heterodox beliefs about God, what are these beliefs based on? Any actual revelation from said God, or ideas of what YOU want God to be that originated in your own mind?

I'd be happy to answer that but feel this is not the appropriate forum to discuss this. That being said, I'll give a short answer - the beliefs are based on what I know and have discovered so far and always evolving but never at any point do I feel my searching or wandering condemns me or alienates me from the love of God even for one second.

But our Theology Realm is

seth wrote:Genuine question: to anyone who has “deconstructed” and formed their own heterodox beliefs about God, what are these beliefs based on? Any actual revelation from said God, or ideas of what YOU want God to be that originated in your own mind?

If it's in the Bible it's true . It's very simple, people try to overcomplicate it. My uncle is calvinist and I hate it. When I was first told the beliefs of calvinists it took me (a 14 boy at the time) 10 seconds to realize it makes God evil. People try to bend the Bible to what they want it to say (LGBTQ+ pastors for example) instead of just following and believing what the Bible says.

Christian Thrash Rules wrote:

seth wrote:Genuine question: to anyone who has “deconstructed” and formed their own heterodox beliefs about God, what are these beliefs based on? Any actual revelation from said God, or ideas of what YOU want God to be that originated in your own mind?

If it's in the Bible it's true . It's very simple, people try to overcomplicate it. My uncle is calvinist and I hate it. When I was first told the beliefs of calvinists it took me (a 14 boy at the time) 10 seconds to realize it makes God evil. People try to bend the Bible to what they want it to say (LGBTQ+ pastors for example) instead of just following and believing what the Bible says.

Eh I wouldn’t say Calvinism “makes God evil,” although the more extreme versions definitely get into unbiblical territory.
But you are right, our knowledge of God should come from His revealed word. Feelings and personal ideas of what you want God to be are subjective and unreliable

seth wrote:

Christian Thrash Rules wrote:

seth wrote:Genuine question: to anyone who has “deconstructed” and formed their own heterodox beliefs about God, what are these beliefs based on? Any actual revelation from said God, or ideas of what YOU want God to be that originated in your own mind?

If it's in the Bible it's true . It's very simple, people try to overcomplicate it. My uncle is calvinist and I hate it. When I was first told the beliefs of calvinists it took me (a 14 boy at the time) 10 seconds to realize it makes God evil. People try to bend the Bible to what they want it to say (LGBTQ+ pastors for example) instead of just following and believing what the Bible says.

Eh I wouldn’t say Calvinism “makes God evil,” although the more extreme versions definitely get into unbiblical territory.

If God has decided everything that will ever happen that means he wanted evil. Even if you are Christian you're still just hoping God decided that you get to go to heaven. If God decided who will go to heaven and who won't he's evil. The Bible says God is love, sending specific people to heaven and specific people to hell sounds a lot like love right?(sarcasm in case you can't tell).

Christian Thrash Rules wrote:

seth wrote:

Christian Thrash Rules wrote:

seth wrote:Genuine question: to anyone who has “deconstructed” and formed their own heterodox beliefs about God, what are these beliefs based on? Any actual revelation from said God, or ideas of what YOU want God to be that originated in your own mind?

If it's in the Bible it's true . It's very simple, people try to overcomplicate it. My uncle is calvinist and I hate it. When I was first told the beliefs of calvinists it took me (a 14 boy at the time) 10 seconds to realize it makes God evil. People try to bend the Bible to what they want it to say (LGBTQ+ pastors for example) instead of just following and believing what the Bible says.

Eh I wouldn’t say Calvinism “makes God evil,” although the more extreme versions definitely get into unbiblical territory.

If God has decided everything that will ever happen that means he wanted evil. Even if you are Christian you're still just hoping God decided that you get to go to heaven. If God decided who will go to heaven and who won't he's evil. The Bible says God is love, sending specific people to heaven and specific people to hell sounds a lot like love right?(sarcasm in case you can't tell).

Calvinism basically says that God made most of the population just to send them to hell... sounds pretty evil to me

Well it depends on your definition of “evil” I guess, if God is the standard of good and evil (“good” is that which aligns with His nature, “evil” is that which goes against it), then it is logically impossible for Him to be evil. But I agree, the hyper-Calvinist position which rejects free will and basically sees God as a puppet master and us as puppets, doesn’t leave much room to say He is loving

seth wrote:Well it depends on your definition of “evil” I guess, if God is the standard of good and evil (“good” is that which aligns with His nature, “evil” is that which goes against it), then it is logically impossible for Him to be evil. But I agree, the hyper-Calvinist position which rejects free will and basically sees God as a puppet master and us as puppets, doesn’t leave much room to say He is loving

Yes. In Him is no evil. He didn't plan Satan, the fall of Adam and Eve etc. I don't attach myself to a specific denomination, I'm just Christian. I just believe and follow what the Bible says, which is the why God intended it.

Christian Thrash Rules wrote:

seth wrote:Well it depends on your definition of “evil” I guess, if God is the standard of good and evil (“good” is that which aligns with His nature, “evil” is that which goes against it), then it is logically impossible for Him to be evil. But I agree, the hyper-Calvinist position which rejects free will and basically sees God as a puppet master and us as puppets, doesn’t leave much room to say He is loving

Yes. In Him is no evil. He didn't plan Satan, the fall of Adam and Eve etc. I don't attach myself to a specific denomination, I'm just Christian. I just believe and follow what the Bible says, which is the why God intended it.

Same, my denomination is just what the Bible says... humans created the denominations, so assigning myself to one is saying I follow certain beliefs humans decided. Obviously there'll be some I lean more toward, but I don't want to prefectly fit in one.

StevenCressler wrote:

Christian Thrash Rules wrote:

seth wrote:

Christian Thrash Rules wrote:

seth wrote:Genuine question: to anyone who has “deconstructed” and formed their own heterodox beliefs about God, what are these beliefs based on? Any actual revelation from said God, or ideas of what YOU want God to be that originated in your own mind?

If it's in the Bible it's true . It's very simple, people try to overcomplicate it. My uncle is calvinist and I hate it. When I was first told the beliefs of calvinists it took me (a 14 boy at the time) 10 seconds to realize it makes God evil. People try to bend the Bible to what they want it to say (LGBTQ+ pastors for example) instead of just following and believing what the Bible says.

Eh I wouldn’t say Calvinism “makes God evil,” although the more extreme versions definitely get into unbiblical territory.

If God has decided everything that will ever happen that means he wanted evil. Even if you are Christian you're still just hoping God decided that you get to go to heaven. If God decided who will go to heaven and who won't he's evil. The Bible says God is love, sending specific people to heaven and specific people to hell sounds a lot like love right?(sarcasm in case you can't tell).

Calvinism basically says that God made most of the population just to send them to hell... sounds pretty evil to me

Well... as Seth said, it depends on your definition of evil.  I think you're basically doing the same thing you guys are accusing Petrafan007 of: using your gut feeling to claim biblical truth.  (For the record, I agree with the above assessment of deconstruction and think it's an awful thing!)  Keep in mind Romans 9.  But as Pethead likes to point out, there's tension in the reality of that discussion and the two extremes each side likes to argue against aren't typically where most folks who subscribe to these understandings actually believe.  As a Calvinist myself, I don't believe God is just a puppet master, nor does any Calvinist I've ever talked to.  But the opposing side likes to make that claim as a bit of a straw man to easily knock down.  Anyways, I think it's wisest to heed Deuteronomy 29:29 and not try to fill in the gaps intentionally left out of Scripture or to ascribe finite attributes to the infinite God and creator of all.  Rather, we can rest in that tension of somehow there being evil in the world where a completely sovereign and all-knowing God who created all things having control over all... isn't "evil" in the slightest Himself - even though He at the very least created the circumstances where evil would come about, knowing full well that it would.  (Unless you're an open-theist but that's a whole other can of worms!)

Another thing to keep in mind, that this is an in-house debate.  By that I mean that it's not a salvific issue and Calvinists and Arminians should consider one another brothers in Christ.  While I respectfully disagree with your beliefs (though I once agreed), I don't consider them "evil."  

Ooh, I got name dropped by the Big K.

Yup and for once it wasn't in a derogatory manner!  You're moving up in the world Pethead.  (But very slowly; don't mess it up!)

Kerrick wrote:Well... as Seth said, it depends on your definition of evil.  I think you're basically doing the same thing you guys are accusing Petrafan007 of: using your gut feeling to claim biblical truth.  (For the record, I agree with the above assessment of deconstruction and think it's an awful thing!)  Keep in mind Romans 9.  But as Pethead likes to point out, there's tension in the reality of that discussion and the two extremes each side likes to argue against aren't typically where most folks who subscribe to these understandings actually believe.  As a Calvinist myself, I don't believe God is just a puppet master, nor does any Calvinist I've ever talked to.  But the opposing side likes to make that claim as a bit of a straw man to easily knock down.  Anyways, I think it's wisest to heed Deuteronomy 29:29 and not try to fill in the gaps intentionally left out of Scripture or to ascribe finite attributes to the infinite God and creator of all.  Rather, we can rest in that tension of somehow there being evil in the world where a completely sovereign and all-knowing God who created all things having control over all... isn't "evil" in the slightest Himself - even though He at the very least created the circumstances where evil would come about, knowing full well that it would.  (Unless you're an open-theist but that's a whole other can of worms!)

Another thing to keep in mind, that this is an in-house debate.  By that I mean that it's not a salvific issue and Calvinists and Arminians should consider one another brothers in Christ.  While I respectfully disagree with your beliefs (though I once agreed), I don't consider them "evil."  

That is true... I can tend to be pretty judgemental about things I don't agree with. However, of course I still consider Calvinists brothers in Christ. That's a good thing about this forum, I get to interact with people of other denominations, and I'm much less likely to judge an entire denomination once I've had interactions with people like you. You're a good representative lol

Deconstructing the faith isn't brave when you get cheered for doing it, it's quite trendy right now.
As a Reformed believer it's a huge misunderstanding to say it makes God evil.
Funny thing is, I was basically a Calvinist before I knew what it was.

Black Rider wrote:Deconstructing the faith isn't brave when you get cheered for doing it, it's quite trendy right now.

Indeed.

Black Rider wrote:Funny thing is, I was basically a Calvinist before I knew what it was.

Well, you were predestined to be that way. 

Here’s a caution for those discussing Calvinism and Arminianism:

http://curtisjdupree.blogspot.com/2021/03/beware-of-pious-blasphemy.html