Christian band that have left the christian lyrics behind?

Agreed.  And no, nobody's denying whether bands are no longer writing Christian lyrics.  What I'm trying to prevent is the unnecessary but often inevitable "they stopped writing Christian lyrics so they were probably never actual Christians to begin with" or "they must have really weak faiths" and that sort of thing.

I totally regret I opened this thread...

We have entered into a huge discussion just because people wish to preventing judgement...
Because someone thought this or that could happen.

Some people should take discussions less serious sometimes...This was just about a curiosity, just another thread for us to have fun. discuss with people that have realize it or maybe not.

If you're not interested, don't click on the topic, just scroll it down...

Anyway, I am totally pissed of...As someone said, the problem of christianity is the christians. Juddgement is a bad thing, but so is legalism.

BTW, Legalism is a kind of judgement.

Lol, you're whole post is judging but it's bad? Judgement is never said to be a bad thing in the Bible, we are commanded to do it but cautiously and using God's criteria, otherwise how could we tell someone they are in need of savior?

Oh boy.  Thiago, don't worry!  Your'e fine.    My posts weren't aimed at you or anyone else for anything said.  They were general cautionary requests because it's easy for threads like these to slip into needless gossip and broad sweeping assumptions about things very personal and sensitive to people.

"Judging" might be a good topic to discuss in the Theology Realm; feel free to create a thread if you'd like!

I think this is a great thread, and I'm glad Thiago started it.  I'm often left wondering sometimes when listening to a Christian rock or metal band if there is some Christian content in the lyrics that I'm missing (especially some recordings in the last 15 years).  Maybe the message is veiled in the lyrics too deeply for me to catch it, or maybe the music is merely Christian friendly and there is not message of salvation through Christ.  Or possibly even a band that used to write from a Christian perspective and no longer does.  It's good for me to hear what other people have experienced, and what they think even if we might be wrong.

I don't have any other bands to mention, but I do have a question.

Several years ago as bands really started taking on the more poetic lyrics that weren't quite so in your face as early Christian music, a lot was talked about how if we diversified lyrical styles that we would end up reaching more people for Christ.  Did that actually happen, or did we just dilute the message until we can't really tell where someone stands?  Did we become more effective witnesses or just blur the lines of where secular and Christian begin?  Like Staybrite said, it is really hard to tell anymore unless a band just states that up front that they are either a Christian band or a band with a Christian worldview.  I don't want to debate whether a Christian band is really a thing or not as that horse has been beaten to death.  To re-travel that road, in my opinion, would be a useless as a screen door on a submarine.

I think those are great questions but I think the answers to your questions are obvious.

Temple of Blood wrote:The lyrics are often available to read and usually can easily be interpreted.

I often find (and starting in the 90s it became more and more the case) that when I read lyrics to current day releases, I have no idea what kind of world view they are coming from, whether the band claims Christianity or not...

back in the day, it was usually blatant...in your face

And is it about the bands and musicians only? 

When I was a young kid, I wanted only straight forward Christ centered lyrics. As I grew older it didn´t work anymore. Listening to fe. Whitecross I just thought that "I know this already". Being musically great band, their lyrics were... blaah. 

I was saved, I got my spiritual inspiration from Bible, I started to want deeper and more thought provoking lyrics from christian artists... and artists overall.

I guess many christian artists may also come to a point that everything is said and done and they want to get their lyrical approach broader. Who are we to blame? Of course there are bands and musicians that just changes their ways spiritually. 

Don´t know how to say this, english not being my 1st language.

Tourniquet has demonstrated how you can write Christian lyrics that do more than "rock for the rock".

Stand against the wind wrote:And is it about the bands and musicians only? 

When I was a young kid, I wanted only straight forward Christ centered lyrics. As I grew older it didn´t work anymore. Listening to fe. Whitecross I just thought that "I know this already". Being musically great band, their lyrics were... blaah. 

I was saved, I got my spiritual inspiration from Bible, I started to want deeper and more thought provoking lyrics from christian artists... and artists overall.

I guess many christian artists may also come to a point that everything is said and done and they want to get their lyrical approach broader. Who are we to blame? Of course there are bands and musicians that just changes their ways spiritually. 

Don´t know how to say this, english not being my 1st language.

This is great! I love a mix of both actually. Some bands I appreciate for having straightforward lyrics, others because they write truly thought provoking, challenging lyrics. Some I know it'll be months before I absorb the full message of the album but it will be incredibly worth it. Other's I've got it on the first time through. There is a place for both for me.

I will say, some more vague and poetic artists make discerning what they are speaking of difficult and perhaps we just like it easy, especially when it comes to entertainment. Poetic, deep lyrics can feel "dangerous." Are they using poetic license or are they actually off? Demon Hunter is cryptic with much of their lyricism but solid. Interviews, lyric commentaries show where they stand. Yet, John Mark McMillan (a popular indie/worship artist) has left the faith. You couldn't tell because his lyrics are so poetic that he had been walking away. His lyrics have always been poetic. I was receiving much from his albums anyway but things started to sound more "off." I wondered, so I looked into interviews to try and get a handle on what was going on. If you listen to interviews about his beliefs today, you'll hear things like "Christianity is a good idea... if it's true" and "God is all love with no judgment" and "doubt is faith and the faith of atheists is faith" and "who can really say who does and doesn't believe." He's lost his way but people think he's still in the faith because he uses the Christianese language of someone who grew up in church, speaks of positive things but ultimately what you are hearing is someone who is lost and clinging on to something that is nothing like Biblical faith. We step back when we find these things out.

Issues based lyrics are similar. Like Gideon (metalcore band) in the past with their angry, bitter lyrics addressed a lot of broken relationships. It seems like that is what Fit For A King is stuck in now. The question is, are they addressing issues to expose them and bring about conversation or are they angry and bitter themselves, struggling mightily? Gideon as an entire band left the faith angry and bitter. Fit for a King? It's hard for me to tell where they are headed. A popular hip-hop artist like Lecrae addresses cultural issues and it becomes divisive amongst his fanbase. My Epic (post-hardcore) deals with issues of doubt and struggle but are incredibly solid. In all cases these things seem dangerous to artists and to listeners.

Ultimately without interviews and personal conversation we never truly know. I'm okay with that unknown but try to be discerning at the same time. Deep but clear is my favorite but I'll take straightforward lyrics over exceptionally cryptic and being notably bent on major issues.

Deliverance
Seventh Angel
Teramaze
Believer

Probably listed in order of how on fire the lyrics were to begin with although a case could be made that Deliverance and Seventh Angel had equally bold lyrics. An argument could be made that these were the four most talented bands in the genre as well. Believer’s message always seemed a little vague to me.Teramaze went full circle from secular to Christian (influenced by Tourniquet’s music), and then back to secular. It will be interesting to see which direction Detritus takes with the new one.

Frozen Fire wrote:

Stand against the wind wrote:And is it about the bands and musicians only? 

When I was a young kid, I wanted only straight forward Christ centered lyrics. As I grew older it didn´t work anymore. Listening to fe. Whitecross I just thought that "I know this already". Being musically great band, their lyrics were... blaah. 

I was saved, I got my spiritual inspiration from Bible, I started to want deeper and more thought provoking lyrics from christian artists... and artists overall.

I guess many christian artists may also come to a point that everything is said and done and they want to get their lyrical approach broader. Who are we to blame? Of course there are bands and musicians that just changes their ways spiritually. 

Don´t know how to say this, english not being my 1st language.

This is great! I love a mix of both actually. Some bands I appreciate for having straightforward lyrics, others because they write truly thought provoking, challenging lyrics. Some I know it'll be months before I absorb the full message of the album but it will be incredibly worth it. Other's I've got it on the first time through. There is a place for both for me.

I will say, some more vague and poetic artists make discerning what they are speaking of difficult and perhaps we just like it easy, especially when it comes to entertainment. Poetic, deep lyrics can feel "dangerous." Are they using poetic license or are they actually off? Demon Hunter is cryptic with much of their lyricism but solid. Interviews, lyric commentaries show where they stand. Yet, John Mark McMillan (a popular indie/worship artist) has left the faith. You couldn't tell because his lyrics are so poetic that he had been walking away. His lyrics have always been poetic. I was receiving much from his albums anyway but things started to sound more "off." I wondered, so I looked into interviews to try and get a handle on what was going on. If you listen to interviews about his beliefs today, you'll hear things like "Christianity is a good idea... if it's true" and "God is all love with no judgment" and "doubt is faith and the faith of atheists is faith" and "who can really say who does and doesn't believe." He's lost his way but people think he's still in the faith because he uses the Christianese language of someone who grew up in church, speaks of positive things but ultimately what you are hearing is someone who is lost and clinging on to something that is nothing like Biblical faith. We step back when we find these things out.

Issues based lyrics are similar. Like Gideon (metalcore band) in the past with their angry, bitter lyrics addressed a lot of broken relationships. It seems like that is what Fit For A King is stuck in now. The question is, are they addressing issues to expose them and bring about conversation or are they angry and bitter themselves, struggling mightily? Gideon as an entire band left the faith angry and bitter. Fit for a King? It's hard for me to tell where they are headed. A popular hip-hop artist like Lecrae addresses cultural issues and it becomes divisive amongst his fanbase. My Epic (post-hardcore) deals with issues of doubt and struggle but are incredibly solid. In all cases these things seem dangerous to artists and to listeners.

Ultimately without interviews and personal conversation we never truly know. I'm okay with that unknown but try to be discerning at the same time. Deep but clear is my favorite but I'll take straightforward lyrics over exceptionally cryptic and being notably bent on major issues.

I don't mind issues based lyrics. Rez always tried to shine light into dark places to expose wicked deeds.

I guess that perhaps I am not as deep of a thinker as others.  I have read books by noted theologians and finished reading their material shaking my head wondering what in the world I just read.  When I have to deal with more complex poetic lyrics, I just don't get it either.  I've always liked deeper thought from people who could bring it down to the working man's level.  I don't care if it is a book, sermon, song, or whatever--just tell me what you want me to know and I will decide how that affects me or how it makes me feel.

I get that we need people who can do art or convey the Christian message in more artsy and more simplistic ways to fit their audience.  But, when you see a majority of artists going in the more poetic, or many times hidden, lyrical approaches, one has to wonder if the Gospel is what they stand to deliver or if they just wanted to rock.  

Perhaps it isn't the music industry so much as it is a church lifestyle.  We have churches that omit passages that make them uncomfortable and no longer preach that worship truly is about how we serve the Lord.  We've made worship a musical style all of it's own.  Perhaps Christianity has come to a point where we have a form of godliness but deny its power.  Maybe I am waxing too nostalgic and just miss ages past and have become a cynical, irrelevant old man.

Please don't think that I am trying to label anyone as weak or faithless Christians.  We all have room to improve (me especially) and need to check to make sure that Christ is our motivation and that we are doing all we can to tell the world about Him whether we are Christians who are musicians, pastors, plumbers, or whatever.   

Maybe I am just too simple for my own good and don't understand anything outside of my own little bubble.

On another note, there are bands that still have a bold message when they tour and on recent releases: Jerusalem, Classic Petra/CPR, Stryper/Michael Sweet, Bloodgood and Saint to name a few. 

Another point is in Christianity, are we noticing only Christian bands in various styles (CCM, praise and worship, modern rock and metal and traditional rock and metal) or are other areas being more watered down/ambiguous? Several years ago a local Pentecostal church I haven't attend since 2013 seem to have sermons that focused on Christian living and being faithful and rarely mentioned the judgement of God and hell and sin as Pentecostal preachers tend to speak about. This past Sunday morning another Pentecostal preacher in a church in a town 4 hours away on a podcast spoke about that Christ is the only solution to today's problems and the only way to heaven - it was refreshing to hear that kind of message and we need more of that. 

The ambiguousness/watering down of Christianity seem to be in various areas. Are people being too politically correct for fear of having a backlash from the world. Christians are to be a light and salt to the world. Light exposes sin and salt hurts a wound. The gospel at first hurts but when a person is open to it brings refreshment and peace.

There are also bands whose lyrics are more like prayers to God and more personal like Skillet.

Soldier777 wrote:On another note, there are bands that still have a bold message when they tour and on recent releases: Jerusalem, Classic Petra/CPR, Stryper/Michael Sweet, Bloodgood and Saint to name a few. 

Another point is in Christianity, are we noticing only Christian bands in various styles (CCM, praise and worship, modern rock and metal and traditional rock and metal) or are other areas being more watered down/ambiguous? Several years ago a local Pentecostal church I haven't attend since 2013 seem to have sermons that focused on Christian living and being faithful and rarely mentioned the judgement of God and hell and sin as Pentecostal preachers tend to speak about. This past Sunday morning another Pentecostal preacher in a church in a town 4 hours away on a podcast spoke about that Christ is the only solution to today's problems and the only way to heaven - it was refreshing to hear that kind of message and we need more of that. 

The ambiguousness/watering down of Christianity seem to be in various areas. Are people being too politically correct for fear of having a backlash from the world. Christians are to be a light and salt to the world. Light exposes sin and salt hurts a wound. The gospel at first hurts but when a person is open to it brings refreshment and peace.

Western Christianity as a whole has been being watered down for some time...  Without having listened to the podcast you mentioned I can't speak too much on it, but solely from your description, I'd say that's not far enough - and even perhaps part of the problem.  It's true, Christ is the only solution to our problems and the only way to Heaven.  But if we think of Him as simply a means to earthly contentment/peace and eternal happiness... we're creating a false christ and should flee from any such teachings.  Western "Christianity" is being twisted into this moralistic, therapeutic deism as some have called it.  Anyways, I'll get off my soap-box now. 

(I mean no offense Soldier777 and realize I'm probably addressing a separate topic from what you were saying, but that's where my mind first went.   )

Soldier777 wrote:Another point is in Christianity, are we noticing only Christian bands in various styles (CCM, praise and worship, modern rock and metal and traditional rock and metal) or are other areas being more watered down/ambiguous? Several years ago a local Pentecostal church I haven't attend since 2013 seem to have sermons that focused on Christian living and being faithful and rarely mentioned the judgement of God and hell and sin as Pentecostal preachers tend to speak about. This past Sunday morning another Pentecostal preacher in a church in a town 4 hours away on a podcast spoke about that Christ is the only solution to today's problems and the only way to heaven - it was refreshing to hear that kind of message and we need more of that. 

The ambiguousness/watering down of Christianity seem to be in various areas. Are people being too politically correct for fear of having a backlash from the world. Christians are to be a light and salt to the world. Light exposes sin and salt hurts a wound. The gospel at first hurts but when a person is open to it brings refreshment and peace.

Yeah the watering down definitely is a problem. All false gospels misidentify the core problem facing humanity and/or its solution. The propserity gospel says the problem is discontentment, and the solution is getting more things by giving more to the church. The social gospel says that the problem is poverty, and the solution is helping others like Jesus helped others. The liberal gospel says that there isn't even really much of a problem, and that we are all God's children (believers or not) and everything is fine. The true gospel says that the problem is sin, and the solution is the redeeming work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

The gospel cannot be taught unless the law is taught first. People can't understand why the need a savior unless they understand why they need saving. Yes, there are problems and trials that everyone faces in this life, but Jesus gave Himself to save us from our sin, not from worldly troubles. (God does bless His children, and He does care about us in this world, but Christians will and do face suffering. Jesus didn't die on the cross so that we could live luxurious lives.) People need to be taught that they are evil and that until they repent and trust in Jesus, they are subject to the wrath of God and eternal condemnation.

I love that line from Amazing Grace - "'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, and grace my fears relieved."

Thanks for allowing me a little rant.

I am fine with deep, poetic, or even cryptic lyrics as long as I can glean some understanding of where they are coming from, and can discern that the lyrics are not blatantly anti-Biblical or just...well, just worldly.  (I dislike that word but it fits this context).  I have read the lyrics of plenty of bands that are/were touted as 'Christian' where I have been puzzled by what I found.  Lyrics that celebrate self-exaltation, being your own savior, revenge, violence, bitterness, anger, etc. without any discernible faith context just make me scratch my head over why they are marketed or referred to as a Christian band.

Don't get me wrong.  These bands are free to write as they please and I can respect that that is where they are.   I just do like like any aspect of the music industry (e.g. record companies, distributors, press releases, reviews, fanzines, blogs, fans, or the bands themselves) marketing or touting a band as 'Christian' to the Christian music audience when there is doubt or if doing that would be questionable at best.

I would just like more truth in advertising so that we can all make an informed choice.  That's all.  I know none of us can control what people do and choices will be made regardless, but it is nonetheless a 'wish list' item.

No offense taken Kerrick.

I like your comment Crimson Warrior:

"The propserity gospel says the problem is discontentment, and the solution is getting more things by giving more to the church. The social gospel says that the problem is poverty, and the solution is helping others like Jesus helped others. The liberal gospel says that there isn't even really much of a problem, and that we are all God's children (believers or not) and everything is fine. The true gospel says that the problem is sin, and the solution is the redeeming work of Jesus Christ on the cross."


I'd like to add: The social gospel also says the problem is racism and the solution is affirmative action to give minorities more rights, which has nothing to do with the gospel. 

I agree with alldat... the poetic lyrics are only good if I can understand them. Otherwise it’s like speaking in tongues with no interpretation: it could be biblical or not, but I have no idea since I don’t understand the language. I like bands that are not “rock for the “Rock” but still easily understood. I think Theocracy is nearly genius-level with that. Guardian’s two masterpieces from 1990 and 93 are another great example. One need not be cryptic to be artistic.

Follower of Jesus wrote:I agree with alldat... the poetic lyrics are only good if I can understand them. Otherwise it’s like speaking in tongues with no interpretation: it could be biblical or not, but I have no idea since I don’t understand the language. I like bands that are not “rock for the “Rock” but still easily understood. I think Theocracy is nearly genius-level with that. Guardian’s two masterpieces from 1990 and 93 are another great example. One need not be cryptic to be artistic.

Remember that Jesus spoke through parables many times.

Even though he explained most of them, I think he did it only to the apostles...And maybe a few that demanded explanation.

When I think of clever lyrics, the Tourniquet song Gazing at Medusa comes to mind.

The lyrics are so awesome, mixing mithology with christianity.
One might not say it is a christian song by the album cover or the song name, but you can clearly see the christian reference in the lyrics.

It's not that obvious but it doesn't mean it is hidden...

eatbugs wrote:Yeah Kerrick, I see that side of it and you're right, there is nothing good to come out of judgmentalism. 

There IS value of a list like this in a "buyer beware" sense.  I have bought albums expecting Christian content and been disappointed to find out it wasn't that way anymore.  This isn't judgmental, it's a personal conviction to listen almost exclusively to Christian music.  I do feel like threads like this and "Is _______ still a Christian band" have value for people like me.

I agree. I want to know what I'm buying and what lyrical content I'm exposing myself too

Megadeth. Some people will think I'm crazy but The System Has Failed and United Abominations(my fav MD album) are nearly full Christian imo. Then after those two albums they left the Christian lyrics. I wish they kept it going, they could've been the greatest (and most mainstream) Christian Thrash band.

Kerrick wrote:^I'm with TOB 100% on this one.

Then why didn't you like it