When a "Christian band" says they're not a Christian band...

Pro-Zak wrote:

Black Rider wrote:Salvation happens when God replaces your heart of stone with a heart of flesh. It's not because of emotion or experience, it's a singular act of God.

Salvation initially happens at baptism, when one is born again. Then it's a lifelong process of sanctification, cooperation with grace, how God removes the heart of stone. Without such cooperation, the heart can be hardened again.

This is not Biblical and becomes works based salvation.

Dustofyears wrote:

seth wrote:I can’t honestly pinpoint a specific day or time.  I was raised in a Christian household, but when I was very young I really wasn’t interested in God at all. Possibly just me being a contrary kid. Over time however I realized that it was in fact real, and my faith has gotten stronger with time

You raised in it. Right that makes sense. Now I get where you are coming from. There's the story.

When I was younger, it may have been accurate to say I only believed because I was raised that way. However, as I’ve gotten older, I have had plenty of time to think about it for myself. And I still believe.

Black Rider wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:

Black Rider wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:

Black Rider wrote:Salvation happens when God replaces your heart of stone with a heart of flesh. It's not because of emotion or experience, it's a singular act of God.

And how did you get saved Black rider?

I just told you. God replaced my unbelieving heart of stone with a heart of flesh that believes.

And how did he do that?

Your asking how God saved me? Again, by giving me a new heart.

I'm not after the right words you are taught to say I am after your story of how you got saved.

Btw, baptism in the Bible always comes AFTER belief, not before

Black Rider wrote:

Pro-Zak wrote:

Black Rider wrote:Salvation happens when God replaces your heart of stone with a heart of flesh. It's not because of emotion or experience, it's a singular act of God.

Salvation initially happens at baptism, when one is born again. Then it's a lifelong process of sanctification, cooperation with grace, how God removes the heart of stone. Without such cooperation, the heart can be hardened again.

This is not Biblical and becomes works based salvation.

Well, I expect that a Calvinist such as yourself would object in such a manner. However I don't want to derail this thread with discussions that belong in the Theology section. Feel free to respond to my posts in the "Catholic Things" thread...

seth wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:

seth wrote:I can’t honestly pinpoint a specific day or time.  I was raised in a Christian household, but when I was very young I really wasn’t interested in God at all. Possibly just me being a contrary kid. Over time however I realized that it was in fact real, and my faith has gotten stronger with time

You raised in it. Right that makes sense. Now I get where you are coming from. There's the story.

When I was younger, it may have been accurate to say I only believed because I was raised that way. However, as I’ve gotten older, I have had plenty of time to think about it for myself. And I still believe.

The seed was planted in you from a young age and you were raised in it. So what broke the camels back, that when you were an adult you returned to that seed planted in you from a young age... there would have been something that triggered that, unless it was just a seed that had been growing into a plant all along without you even realizing it was always there... desensitized to the fact, I can see how that works.

Dustofyears wrote:

seth wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:

seth wrote:I can’t honestly pinpoint a specific day or time.  I was raised in a Christian household, but when I was very young I really wasn’t interested in God at all. Possibly just me being a contrary kid. Over time however I realized that it was in fact real, and my faith has gotten stronger with time

You raised in it. Right that makes sense. Now I get where you are coming from. There's the story.

When I was younger, it may have been accurate to say I only believed because I was raised that way. However, as I’ve gotten older, I have had plenty of time to think about it for myself. And I still believe.

The seed was planted in you from a young age and you were raised in it. So what broke the camels back, that when you were an adult you returned to that seed planted in you from a young age... there would have been something that triggered that, unless it was just a seed that had been growing into a plant all along without you even realizing it was always there... desensitized to the fact, I can see how that works.

If you want to put it that way, yes, there were seeds planted at a young age. Jesus Himself used that metaphor. And the plant has indeed been growing all along. Like I said, for me there hasn’t really been a dramatic adult conversion experience. More along the lines of having time over the years to think about and learn more about what I believe and why I believe it, and faith growing stronger that way. I would say I have been a believer since childhood though

no wonder. conclusion= not every conversion can be measured in the same way.

Your turn black rider step on up.

True. However, although the process can look different for different people, what actually constitutes saving faith is universal. And it isn’t about emotion.

seth wrote:True. However, although the process can look different for different people, what actually constitutes saving faith is universal. And it isn’t about emotion.

See that;s what I mean by it can't be measured in the same way. You are measuring by your own experience, which I am going to take a shot and say is pretty sheltered. Don't do that. You have no right to do that.

My knowledge of what constitutes saving faith isn’t based on my experience, but based on what the Bible says about it. Whether or not you believe the Bible, you have to agree that it is the standard of what constitutes the Christian faith

Dustofyears wrote:

seth wrote:True. However, although the process can look different for different people, what actually constitutes saving faith is universal. And it isn’t about emotion.

See that;s what I mean by it can't be measured in the same way. You are measuring by your own experience, which I am going to take a shot and say is pretty sheltered. Don't do that. You have no right to do that.

You base what you believe on experience.

For insisting your not an atheist, you argue like one.

seth wrote:My knowledge of what constitutes saving faith isn’t based on my experience, but based on what the Bible says about it. Whether or not you believe the Bible, you have to agree that it is the standard of what constitutes the Christian faith

I never said it is about emotion. I said emotion and feelings and experience and Intellect have a lot to do with it...goodness me how can it not. But I can see how your choice in belief and conversion worked. It's not so surprising is it? That's why I like to get the back stories of which black Rider swiftly ran from. Cheers.

Black Rider wrote:For insisting your not an atheist, you argue like one.

You don't argue at all. What you hiding from?

Black Rider wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:

seth wrote:True. However, although the process can look different for different people, what actually constitutes saving faith is universal. And it isn’t about emotion.

See that;s what I mean by it can't be measured in the same way. You are measuring by your own experience, which I am going to take a shot and say is pretty sheltered. Don't do that. You have no right to do that.

You bad what you believe on experience.

what?

Aha...thought so.

Dustofyears wrote:

seth wrote:True. However, although the process can look different for different people, what actually constitutes saving faith is universal. And it isn’t about emotion.

See that;s what I mean by it can't be measured in the same way. You are measuring by your own experience, which I am going to take a shot and say is pretty sheltered. Don't do that. You have no right to do that.

My experience as a child was fairly sheltered, as I’m sure is the case for most children. However, as a teen and adult I have had a lot of exposure to all kinds of different belief systems, and taken the time to think about them in depth. Like I said, while (thank God) that “seed” was planted early, I can say confidently that I am not merely a Christian because of lack of exposure to other beliefs, or lack of thinking in depth about my own beliefs.

So you came through intellect basically. That's your own words not mine and it;s not a dig either. That has been your whole process to conversion do you realize that? for others it comes through other avenues through their own experience and walk in life,which again, is different from yours. Your mind has always been soaked in religion...no surprises right. Just saying...

Like if you put a frog in slow boiling water man it's gunna cook one way or the other ya know.

Dustofyears wrote:

Black Rider wrote:For insisting your not an atheist, you argue like one.

You don't argue at all. What you hiding from?

How am I hiding? I state clearly what I believe. You hide behind being an agnostic then tell everyone else they're wrong if they do believe.

Haven't told anyone they are wrong if they believe. It started with you telling me I wasn't a Christian in the first place, which is just straight out lame bs Christians say and a massive cop-out, and yet another scapegoat. I was a bible believing Christian like you are now.

What I want to know is how did you come to Christ and how were you saved.

And yes, feelings, intellect and experience has lots to do with it. So now, how then...

C'mon, you should be confident in your faith, there's no problem right? And what does Jesus say when a man asks you about such things, we are to share them, right? shine bright the light of Christ through your saved testimony, right? Just like Seth did...

lets see if there's feelings, experience and intellect involved, since you say there is none.


  Take your time, I'm all ears...

I always knew about God, when I was four I decided to actually make the choice and give him my heart. Not really the most interesting of testimonies.