First 3 Tourniquet or First 3 Mortification

Exactly.

I’ve always said that I think secular thrash is better than Christian thrash. But TQT is the exception. I wouldn’t say they’re better than the best secular bands, but I would say they’re equal to them.

For example, I like Testament a lot. Guitar and vocal wise, they’re top-notch. 

TQT’s first 3 albums are better than anything Testament did.

Tough question, but as I prefer clear voices over guttural voice. Só, Tourniquet

Pethead wrote:For example, I like Testament a lot. Guitar and vocal wise, they’re top-notch. 

TQT’s first 3 albums are better than anything Testament did.

I partially agree… but not the guitar solos. The drums? Definitely!

But I still stand by my opinion that nothing can top Rust in Peace and Ride the Lightning or Master of Puppets. 

I’ll place Psycho Surgery and Seasons in the Abyss at a tie. They are my favorite drumming albums!

Pethead wrote:I’ve always said that I think secular thrash is better than Christian thrash. But TQT is the exception. I wouldn’t say they’re better than the best secular bands, but I would say they’re equal to them.

I have no problem saying they are equal. The only thing Tourniquet never had was a legit guitar hero at the level of Alex Skolnick or Jeff Waters.

One of the main criteria in whether or not I like a band is the complexity or “interesting-ness” of their songs. While you may be right that Megadeth, Metallica, etc have better guitar solos or other individual elements, overall I find tourniquets music to be more interesting and appealing in song structure. Which is probably the main reason I like them better. And why in general I like progressive/“quirky” thrash better than standard thrash. And yes, I’m pretty sure my opinion would be the same if they had been a secular band (although I likely wouldn’t have discovered them in that case)

I actually don’t care much for Erik Mendez’s solos, to be honest.  Alex’s classic solos with Testament are phenomenal. But I think TQT has better songwriting. 

Leaving aside my raging fanboyism, I’d say the top 3 thrash albums are:

And Justice for All
Master of Puppets
Rust in Peace

There’s a reason those are classics.

But I’d still put at least POD in the top 10.

TQT is one of the few Christian thrash bands I’d still listen to even if they were secular.

Yes I think there may be some biased to TQT being that they are christian. For example, Sepultura's early stuff smashes right down the middle of TQT with primal rage. That's one thing TQT don't have, that violence and rage in their sound. But you know, opinions and what not all good.

Testament are a funny band to me, it's like they have no sound of their own and are a combination of slayer, Pantera and Metallica combined, pretty generic IMO. each there own this and that.

seth wrote:One of the main criteria in whether or not I like a band is the complexity or “interesting-ness” of their songs. While you may be right that Megadeth, Metallica, etc have better guitar solos or other individual elements, overall I find tourniquets music to be more interesting and appealing in song structure. Which is probably the main reason I like them better. And why in general I like progressive/“quirky” thrash better than standard thrash. And yes, I’m pretty sure my opinion would be the same if they had been a secular band (although I likely wouldn’t have discovered them in that case)

Well, there really is no right or wrong opinions, it’s just a matter of taste. And as you stated, your criteria is different. 

Some people actually write off Tourniquet because they don’t like Guy’s voice or Luke’s vocals. Same with Megadeth… some dislike Mustaine’s voice. There’s no doubt that Tourniquet has always kept their music interesting. Lots of odd twists and turns thrown in the mix. How about that flute solo?! 

Dustofyears wrote:Yes I think there may be some biased to TQT being that they are christian. For example, Sepultura's early stuff smashes right down the middle of TQT with primal rage. That's one thing TQT don't have, that violence and rage. But you know, opinions and what not all good.

Testament are a funny band to me, it;s like they have no sound of their own and are a combination of slayer, pantera and Metallica combined, pretty generic IMO. each there own this and that.

While I agree that Testament is very derivative of other bands, they are very good. And they have Alex! They are known for the solos. Plus I think Eric Peterson has vastly improved his playing since The Gathering. Chuck Billy also has a powerful voice and can do anything… sing, shout or death growl. 

But yeah..  they were coattail riders from the second wave of thrash.

Chuck Billy rules. That is all.

Vocally Chuck is metallica/pantera/Slayer and the music is too... it don't get anymore generic than that (aside from metalcore)... but they got more fans than I have so there go!!

Opinions opinions...

Nothing against Erik Mendez… but Tourniquet’s best solos were from Mark Lewis (the STB session guy) and Marc Russo who played on VL.

Dustofyears wrote:Yes I think there may be some biased to TQT being that they are christian. For example, Sepultura's early stuff smashes right down the middle of TQT with primal rage. That's one thing TQT don't have, that violence and rage in their sound. But you know, opinions and what not all good.

Testament are a funny band to me, it's like they have no sound of their own and are a combination of slayer, Pantera and Metallica combined, pretty generic IMO. each there own this and that.

I know this may be an unpopular opinion as a metalhead, but I never viewed “violence and rage” as a positive thing in music

On the topic of violence and rage…

Brutality is a key ingredient for Death Metal (Christian or secular).

TZ75 wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:Yes I think there may be some biased to TQT being that they are christian. For example, Sepultura's early stuff smashes right down the middle of TQT with primal rage. That's one thing TQT don't have, that violence and rage. But you know, opinions and what not all good.

Testament are a funny band to me, it;s like they have no sound of their own and are a combination of slayer, pantera and Metallica combined, pretty generic IMO. each there own this and that.

While I agree that Testament is very derivative of other bands, they are very good. And they have Alex! They are known for the solos. Plus I think Eric Peterson has vastly improved his playing since The Gathering. Chuck Billy also has a powerful voice and can do anything… sing, shout or death growl. 

But yeah..  they were coattail riders from the second wave of thrash.

Well I'm glad someone else can see it. However many enjoy them nonetheless!!!

Dustofyears wrote:

TZ75 wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:Yes I think there may be some biased to TQT being that they are christian. For example, Sepultura's early stuff smashes right down the middle of TQT with primal rage. That's one thing TQT don't have, that violence and rage. But you know, opinions and what not all good.

Testament are a funny band to me, it;s like they have no sound of their own and are a combination of slayer, pantera and Metallica combined, pretty generic IMO. each there own this and that.

While I agree that Testament is very derivative of other bands, they are very good. And they have Alex! They are known for the solos. Plus I think Eric Peterson has vastly improved his playing since The Gathering. Chuck Billy also has a powerful voice and can do anything… sing, shout or death growl. 

But yeah..  they were coattail riders from the second wave of thrash.

Well I'm glad someone else can see it. However many enjoy them nonetheless!!!

Testament was my first favorite thrash band. I’m not putting them down at all… 

I enjoy them a lot! But they did copy Metallica in the beginning.

TZ75 wrote:On the topic of violence and rage…

Brutality is a key ingredient for Death Metal (Christian or secular).

Which may be one of the reasons I don’t like death metal, except for a few melodeath bands

seth wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:Yes I think there may be some biased to TQT being that they are christian. For example, Sepultura's early stuff smashes right down the middle of TQT with primal rage. That's one thing TQT don't have, that violence and rage in their sound. But you know, opinions and what not all good.

Testament are a funny band to me, it's like they have no sound of their own and are a combination of slayer, Pantera and Metallica combined, pretty generic IMO. each there own this and that.

I know this may be an unpopular opinion as a metalhead, but I never viewed “violence and rage” as a positive thing in music

That's cool. When I say violence I mean as in feeling genuine rage and momentum that is usually captured in a time capsule and why most metal bands lose their sting as they mellow with age. But TQT never really had that from the start, just a different band in that regard. In fact they come across to me with the attitude and mentality of a modern prog band than that of a thrash band tbh.

TZ75 wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:

TZ75 wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:Yes I think there may be some biased to TQT being that they are christian. For example, Sepultura's early stuff smashes right down the middle of TQT with primal rage. That's one thing TQT don't have, that violence and rage. But you know, opinions and what not all good.

Testament are a funny band to me, it;s like they have no sound of their own and are a combination of slayer, pantera and Metallica combined, pretty generic IMO. each there own this and that.

While I agree that Testament is very derivative of other bands, they are very good. And they have Alex! They are known for the solos. Plus I think Eric Peterson has vastly improved his playing since The Gathering. Chuck Billy also has a powerful voice and can do anything… sing, shout or death growl. 

But yeah..  they were coattail riders from the second wave of thrash.

Well I'm glad someone else can see it. However many enjoy them nonetheless!!!

Testament was my first favorite thrash band. I’m not putting them down at all… 

I enjoy them a lot! But they did copy Metallica in the beginning.

They still do with their latest stuff and with bits of Pantera and slayer. It's kind of soulless cardboard cut for the mainstream market kind of stuff to me. Despite what I think They are still a popular and well loved band..but then so is Slipknot lolz

I don't think Testament were riding coattails, they were pretty much there at the beginning.

Black Rider wrote:I don't think Testament were riding coattails, they were pretty much there at the beginning.

Not as Testament. And they had no sound of their own. They sounded like other bands and still do.

Black Rider wrote:I don't think Testament were riding coattails, they were pretty much there at the beginning.

I’ve seen documentaries that stated that they were considered a part of the “second wave” like Forbidden. I think they formed in 1983 as The Legacy, but they didn’t release their debut until 1987. 

They were slightly behind The Big Four and Exodus. If you take note of the Metallica formula, you can see some similarities. 

It’s not a big deal though… most bands followed Metallica’s lead (except Slayer). They developed their own signature riffing style. And of coarse Dave Mustaine was a trailblazer in his own right. He also helped develop Metallica’s early sound.