Coronavirus - What is your local situation?

It's interesting that you think we have recourse by voting or talking to our elected officials. I live in Washington state and if you run for governor as a Republican you get almost no press unless it's negative. We are still trapped in lockdown and there's no help coming.

Made a mistake, our church didnt re-open this week, it's re-opening next week, somewhat fitting as it's Pentecost Sunday

Yes I do believe that this lockdown is justified.

And I dont see anything in the Bible that would imply that a service must be "in person". We have technology to gather together in many ways. I dont understand why so many are claiming that it has to be in person?

I dont see our constitution disappearing anytime soon, so I'm not seeing we are losing any freedom at all. We can still practice our faith in a safe way and will be able to continue church services as normal.

I would like to clarify, I dont believe that going to a church service during a pandemic is justified.

Guenther321 wrote:Yes I do believe that this lockdown is justified.

And I dont see anything in the Bible that would imply that a service must be "in person".  We have technology to gather together in many ways.  I dont understand why so many are claiming that it has to be in person?

I dont see our constitution disappearing anytime soon, so I'm not seeing we are losing any freedom at all.  We can still practice our faith in a safe way and will be able to continue church services as normal.  

Matthew 18:20 ESV / 58 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

OK, here is just some reasons why I honestly believe churches gathering in person is so import.

1) It is hard for many people to join in praise and worship without being around others
2) You can't lay hands on the sick without them being there (people often need this physical act to help build their faith..though yes you can be healed anywhere)
3) The person at home still feels isolated and doesn't the get same love and support as they would in person
4) Personally, I have seen MANY times where the service becomes a mini revival and the Holy Spirit is changing lives. People's faith gets bolstered by being around others who have faith..people's faith gets built up by seeing God work...it is infectious...in a good way.
5) In person, it is possible for someone to get a word for a total stranger and be able to share that with them directly....not going to happen if everyone is tuning in via YouTube live stream or whatever
6) Remember, streaming a church service is extremely impersonal and often does nothing to help someone who is depressed or lonely.


In short, keeping the church apart from each other WEAKENS the church...which is exactly what the enemy wants

Guenther321 wrote:I would like to clarify, I dont believe that going to a church service during a pandemic is justified.

Seriously? For centuries, Christians have met under threat of persecution, and we're afraid of an overhyped disease? I understand it makes sense for some people to stay home during these times - but that is their own decision. It is completely justified to attend church and worship God, even when (or should I say, especially when) tyrannical governors try to make it illegal.

Christian's have been staying home during epidemics for centuries I dont see this as any different.
...and yes, Christians have been persecuted for many centuries. I went to a Christian high school and college so believe me I've taken many courses on that topic. I dont see it happening in the US at all. We are not being persecuted for our faith in the US - not now or any time during my lifetime. BTW, I'm 42.

I e heard many first hand stories of persecution. I e met people who live under communist China, North Korea, Russia, and others. I even knew a man while I was in college at Cedarville who became a Christian while serving in the army - in Nazi Germany. Believe me, it a topic I am well acquainted.

CrimsonWarrior wrote:

Guenther321 wrote:I would like to clarify, I dont believe that going to a church service during a pandemic is justified.

Seriously? For centuries, Christians have met under threat of persecution, and we're afraid of an overhyped disease? I understand it makes sense for some people to stay home during these times - but that is their own decision. It is completely justified to attend church and worship God, even when (or should I say, especially when) tyrannical governors try to make it illegal.

I personally do not consider it wise to meet as normal during this pandemic. This has not been easy and I am not someone who finds online Church meetings particularly helpful, but I would rather that we use wisdom and be rational about it. Medical experts are telling us that social distancing is the best method for stopping the spread of this virus. I also believe that the general principle found in the Bible is that God has established civil authorities for our good and we should obey them. I have no doubt that Church meetings will be allowed as soon as deemed safe.

I think some of the discourse on this matter has been overly extreme and alarmist. It is interesting if you look around the world that governments of all sides have generally taken similar action. This should not be a left vs right issue. From my observation it appears that people from the more Conservative side of politics are demanding their individual rights and the people on the more Progressive side get pissed by this perspective because it does not acknowledge that exercising our individual rights has consequences for others. Most people look at it from the middle.

Our church opens on Sunday. We debated going or just staying home. I have no problem with doing church from home. I am fine with it online, or TV (our church has their services on a local TV station). Our youngest daughter has a compromised immune system. She has left the house only 3 times since March. 2 times to go to school and get her belongings and return books (she only saw her teacher, no other kids) and the 3rd time she went out was to see her Endocrinologist last week and he advised us to keep doing what we are doing - keep her away from non family members. She went to a "birthday party" on Facetime with several of her classmates. 

Anyway, our church opens back up on Sunday and has 5 services. They are holding a service in the gym that will normally hold over 300 people and size is limited to 40 people. The early service at 8AM is limited to 20 people. You have to sign up online so we signed up for the 8AM service. As I said there are 5 service times but during these times (with the exception of 8AM) there are a total of 3 services going on, two limited to 40 people and one limited to 20. 

I think Erasmus said it well because I look at all of this from the middle. It is what it is.

That's a good point. This is going on all over the world, so making this all about US politics is just looking with blinders on. Things may never be completely normal, but we are not going to lose any of our freedoms over this.

per·se·cu·tion
hostility and ill-treatment, especially because of race or political or religious beliefs.

there is persecution in the US. no, it is not extreme (e.g. physical), yet, but it does exist...physical harm is not the only kind of persecution.

for example:
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Klein_v._Oregon_Bureau_of_Labor_and_Industries


I agree with alldat, this is testing the waters.

we have already lost some freedom. in theory it is "temporary" but government doesn't easily (ie, ever) give up control that it gains...

the freedoms we lose are most often not in-your-face-obvious but more like the frog in the frying pan. slow and subtle. in concert with that is a the Hegalian Dialectic. basically, you get people to buy into something you want or want to do by convincing them that it was their idea and they want to do it or they want it...

Yeah but being told to stay home and not go to a public church service during a pandemic is NOT persecution of any kind.

I read a little about that case. The best examples we can be of Christ's love is by....turning away sinners? I know I'm gonna get bashed for this, but the bakery owners we're examples of God's love and I feel were in the wrong spiritually. Like that one Christian who put a sign up on his business door that said "No gays, liberals, or Democrats allowed". How are they gonna witness to them after saying " we dont serve your kind?" Jesus showed live to sinners as they were, and yet the modern church turns them away? I'd have made them a nice cake and when giving it to them, I'd say "God loves you and so do I".

I could understand the mentality of "this is the beginning - next it'll be illegal to carry a Bible!!!" If this were in 1 country only. But it's in every country.
Russia and many other countries really dont like the US and they would not go along with anything the US does just to persecute Christians. They would undermine the US government just because.

Ive been hearing the world is against us so fight back crap my whole life. I'm just tired of tilting windmills....

CrimsonWarrior wrote:

Guenther321 wrote:I would like to clarify, I dont believe that going to a church service during a pandemic is justified.

Seriously? For centuries, Christians have met under threat of persecution, and we're afraid of an overhyped disease? I understand it makes sense for some people to stay home during these times - but that is their own decision. It is completely justified to attend church and worship God, even when (or should I say, especially when) tyrannical governors try to make it illegal.

Guenther conveniently forgets there is no "in case of Coronavirus, your rights are suspended" in the Constitution.

I didn't say or mean that being told to stay home is persecution.

I also wasn't commenting on whether turning down making a cake for a gay wedding was right or wrong, but rather, the fact that Christians are being persecuted for being...Christian. We all know that if a gay baker refused a Christian wedding cake they would not only NOT be persecuted for it, but rather, celebrated...

anyway, just wanted to clarify myself...

I have limited time tonight to respond, but....

There is no clause in the constitution about epidemics/pandemics because our founding fathers took for granted that people would do what was necessary - directed by doctors. Although to be honest, there is nothing in the constitution that says rights cant be suspended during a pandemic. Not saying that is what's happening now, just saying....

But with that logic then was it constitutional to send the military to be used as a police force in the areas hit by Katrina right afterwards? For the record I personally know 2 vets who fired on civilians at that time. One incident was reported as being civilians vs contractors, but it was really a US military patrol....

Our state (Mississippi) is reopening Monday, with limits on how many people can be in a certain buidling/area (and masks will (hopefully) be required, though that may be up to the discretion of the owners).

I could see masks being done away with in public in major cities where rioting and looting are going on.  It is too hard to tell who the bad guys are!

^I'm curious how many criminals have taken advantage of everyone wearing masks and whether or not that's made it easier to commit crimes.

Meanwhile, in Idaho:



(Though I don't suppose too many people here would be surprised that anyone's carrying a gun.  We don't need permits and the vast majority of men I know here carry.)

Kerrick wrote:^I'm curious how many criminals have taken advantage of everyone wearing masks and whether or not that's made it easier to commit crimes.

Meanwhile, in Idaho:



(Though I don't suppose too many people here would be surprised that anyone's carrying a gun.  We don't need permits and the vast majority of men I know here carry.)

If the law passes through the Senate here in TN, we may become a Constitutional Carry state.  The big hurdle for TN is deciding what they would need to do to replace the revenue generated by selling permits.  To me, that's simple.  Keep the permits in place for concealed carry.  If you are openly carrying and someone comes into your place of business or store you are in to rob it and shoot it up, you become target number one because you can return fire.  For me, I want to keep mine hidden so no one knows if I have one or not.  Also, you can add to the fees for the background checks on new handgun sales.  I think it would even out that way if the fees were adjusted properly.

Regardless, I would love to see this legislation pass.

Oh right on; I hope that passes!  Constitutional Carry is great.  I think the idea of it being "Constitutional" is that no permit is necessary for carrying - concealed or not though.  I did have to pay for my "enhanced" carry permit so I can carry concealed in most other states too.  I think you're right that the income from permits (which I doubt is really that much to begin with...) could be made up with a rise in background checks and whatnot.

And yeah, concealed carry >>> open carry.  Generally I only open carry when I'm out in the woods hiking.

Kerrick-https://www.redstate.com/alexparker/2020/05/16/police-santa-ana-pandemic-masks-50-percent-increase-robberies/

Well there ya have it!

Reminds me of this meme/joke I've seen online.

Cashier: "Sir, you have to wear a mask if you want to shop in our store."
Him: "If I come back wearing a mask, I'm not paying for anything."



Feels like out of the frying pan and into the fire around here.  The state capitol, about 20 minutes drive from where I live, pretty much all businesses I know of are opened in some capacity, or are opening from the pandemic shut-down....  

and then Walmart, Target, and other stores closed again after "attempted looting" at the mall.  My wife had to leave for work 20 minutes early because the normal routes are closed off due to "protesting".  (at least I think protesting is the applicable word here.  Certainly rioting is quite different from that.)

So our Governor and Mayor have allowed the rioters and looters to take over.  
The Soros-paid agitators are causing mayhem and destruction every night.  
The police are not allowed to do much of anything to stop them.  

Meanwhile, I was just outside before our curfew and people were cursing the cops and threatening them with violence.

Great way to run a city.....NOT.....

Meanwhile we now have a mandated curfew of 8pm every night, for who knows how long.  

Great job, Cuomo and de Blasio.   Thanks for...well, nothing.