France Hostage Situation

I just got home from work and turned on the news, terrorists have hostages and are held up in a super market in France right now. What an awful situation. It has been confirmed that this is related with the even from a few days ago. The men terrorizing at the moment are working with the 2 men who killed 12 people the other day or may be the same guys, I think I heard that they were different men though (I tuned in a little late). I hope that the hostages make it out ok. What a horrifying reality this is.

ParaNormaN wrote:What a horrifying reality this is.

That's an understatement.

Does anyone in the world who believes in freedom think that Hitler's German Nazism is acceptable?

So, why does the free world allow belief system that has as one of its practices beheading?

d@v!d wrote:Does anyone in the world who believes in freedom think that Hitler's German Nazism is acceptable?

So, why does the free world allow belief system that has as one of its practices beheading?

I don't believe they do. Hitlers Nazism took freedom away and harmed other people.

These people are extremists. Muslim people are not this crazy or behead every person who doesn't follow their religion. At the same time though, the Muslim religion is really old testament and things back then were brutal...

Every religion has their own extremists though. We have the WBC, people have ripped their eyes, arms etc. because Jesus told us that if a part of our bodies causes us to sin then we should rip it from ourselves. Religion is really easy to use for violence.

ParaNormaN wrote:

d@v!d wrote:Does anyone in the world who believes in freedom think that Hitler's German Nazism is acceptable?

So, why does the free world allow belief system that has as one of its practices beheading?

I don't believe they do. Hitlers Nazism took freedom away and harmed other people.

These people are extremists. Muslim people are not this crazy or behead every person who doesn't follow their religion. At the same time though, the Muslim religion is really old testament and things back then were brutal...

I don't think that you understand my point.

Most muslims don't go beheading and most Nazis didn't go around killing either. It's the ideology that is dangerous because can spring violence.

My point is that in the free world we are being very foolish to allow this violent teaching to be established in our midst.

ParaNormaN wrote:Every religion has their own extremists though. We have the WBC, people have ripped their eyes, arms etc. because Jesus told us that if a part of our bodies causes us to sin then we should rip it from ourselves. Religion is really easy to use for violence.

Your comparison between WBC and islam is poor. WBC violence occurs because of very very poor hermeneutics. There is no clear teaching in Christianity that incites self mutilation, violence to others, or conversion by the sword. The practice of beheading in islam is very clear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beheading_in_Islamism#Scriptural_justification

Oh, I see. I didn't understand your point and I wasn't comparing Islam to WBC. I was just stating that people can take teachings from any religion to the extremes. I just used Christianity instead of other religions.

Well, last I heard they are all now sentient of reality.

ParaNormaN wrote:

These people are extremists. Muslim people are not this crazy or behead every person who doesn't follow their religion. At the same time though, the Muslim religion is really old testament and things back then were brutal...

sometime you might want to compare the teachings of the Koran vs the teachings of Jesus. And I am not talking about surface level comparisons of the Koran vs the bible. I'm talking context and intent of meaning of both. Let me say that the life of Mohammed will never be confused with the life of Jesus Christ.

ParaNormaN wrote:I just got home from work and turned on the news, terrorists have hostages and are held up in a super market in France right now. What an awful situation. It has been confirmed that this is related with the even from a few days ago. The men terrorizing at the moment are working with the 2 men who killed 12 people the other day or may be the same guys, I think I heard that they were different men though (I tuned in a little late). I hope that the hostages make it out ok. What a horrifying reality this is.

There had 2 hostage-taking in the same time: the 2 men who attacked Charlie Hebdo had 1 hostage in printer's, the 2 guys have been killed. And a man who know the 2 men - maybe with a woman - who had 15 hostage on a Jew super market. 4 hostages  an this man have been killed too.

I prefered they caught them alive, dead we partially give them reason and they will became a model for others assholes.

One of the last front page of this newspaper was a crying Muhammad who said about extremists: "It's hard to be loved by morons". I definitely approve.
 

d@v!d wrote:Most muslims don't go beheading and most Nazis didn't go around killing either. It's the ideology that is dangerous because can spring violence.

My point is that in the free world we are being very foolish to allow this violent teaching to be established in our midst.

About your link about beheading, i see a lots of quotes are from hadith. According to some of my muslim friends, hadith are quotes  from Muhammad and are very controversial. I don't know if it's right or not, there is a lots of different interpretations. 


I've personnally nothing against muslims, and don't want to amalgamate. But  it's absolutely necessary that muslims who are against that fight against with us. .We have to join our forces from all faith against barbarism.

Pastèque wrote:

ParaNormaN wrote:I just got home from work and turned on the news, terrorists have hostages and are held up in a super market in France right now. What an awful situation. It has been confirmed that this is related with the even from a few days ago. The men terrorizing at the moment are working with the 2 men who killed 12 people the other day or may be the same guys, I think I heard that they were different men though (I tuned in a little late). I hope that the hostages make it out ok. What a horrifying reality this is.

There had 2 hostage-taking in the same time: the 2 men who attacked Charlie Hebdo had 1 hostage in printer's, the 2 guys have been killed. And a man who know the 2 men - maybe with a woman - who had 15 hostage on a Jew super market. 4 hostages  an this man have been killed too.

I prefered they caught them alive, dead we partially give them reason and they will became a model for others assholes.

One of the last front page of this newspaper was a crying Muhammad who said about extremists: "It's hard to be loved by morons". I definitely approve.
 

d@v!d wrote:Most muslims don't go beheading and most Nazis didn't go around killing either. It's the ideology that is dangerous because can spring violence.

My point is that in the free world we are being very foolish to allow this violent teaching to be established in our midst.

About your link about beheading, i see a lots of quotes are from hadith. According to some of my muslim friends, hadith are quotes  from Muhammad and are very controversial. I don't know if it's right or not, there is a lots of different interpretations. 


I've personnally nothing against muslims, and don't want to amalgamate. But  it's absolutely necessary that muslims who are against that fight against with us. .We have to join our forces from all faith against barbarism.

I was thinking about you today. I'm glad you are alright.

From wikipedia "The overwhelming majority of Muslims consider hadith to be essential supplements to, and clarifications of, the Quran"

Sura 47 reads: "When you encounter the unbelievers on the battlefield, strike off their heads until you have crushed them completely; then bind the prisoners tightly."

As I understand the surats are from the Koran proper.

I know that islam can be interpreted to be docile, but it has too many texts that allow it to be interpreted as a violent ideology.

Why should we in the free world even want anything like that in our midst? We don't tolerate Nazis. Why should we tolerate rabid islam?

Need I say more?

Anyways, it seems too many muslims are angry about islam being thought of poorly and not enough are angry that innocent people are murdered.

Oh and here's a good intro on the koran.

Peter who was Vaak wrote:
Anyways, it seems too many muslims are angry about islam being thought of poorly and not enough are angry that innocent people are murdered.

Whenever I talk too someone who is muslim, I ask them what they believe the problem is in their religion where so many use it to justify killing and oppression. I ask them if they are reflective on  the root causes of how terrorist groups can so easily use their scriptures as a basis for their world view, and what some possible solutions might be.

From what I have read, you can break up the writing of the Koran into two phases of Mohammeds life. When he started his religion, he was very tolerant and optimistic, and the first half of the Koran kind of reflect that. During the later years when he had troubles in Medina, and Medina kind of rejected his new religion. He took military action against the city, and the later half of the Koran Reflect that change of attitude. More militant and more forceful coercive language. And that is why many scriptures can be used in their context to justify a world view reflected by extremist Muslims.

@ d@v!d: Thanks for your esteem, it was more in the north but of course we're all affected

From i've read this last days, peaceful and hateful interpretation about Quran are possible and valid. I don't think Islam have to disappear, but really need to be supervised. I could be better for everybody, including moderated muslims.