..and the apostasy is complete.

sentient 6 wrote:Ok, I realize you are over sensitive to me and my posts

No, not at all.

But after reading your comments in this thread...

Why don't more Christian metal bands write songs like this?

...I figured you would know what I meant without having to go on the defensive and saying that I'm being "over sensitive" to your posts.

sentient 6 wrote:

XenonLion wrote:What does he believe about hell?

That it might be a distinct possibility that all humans will be reconciled to God. Even those in hell may be reconciled to God. It seems he has been influence by some of the writings of the Church Father Origen on the matter.

I assume you're talking about his book, Love Wins here. I actually read it and walked away with more questions than answers. He even says in the book he's trying to provoke conversation and not answer anything.

But I will say at some point... he got too liberal for even me...

sentient 6 wrote:... he was making his apostasy " complete by aligning himself with Oprah.

You mean like the Beast and the False Prophet? 

Gandalf the White wrote:But I will say at some point... he got too liberal for even me...

Ditto.  I don't know where the line is, but somehow he crossed it.

You can't nail this guy down on anything, he equivocates more then a politician on the campaign trail!   

Candlemass wrote:You can't nail this guy down on anything, he equivocates more then a politician on the campaign trail!   

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "nail him down".

I think they were asking him tons of questions from tons of different angles. I wonder why these dudes couldn't nail down their own questions so that they were more direct and to the point. Being bombarded with so many questions from so many different angles gets confusing and frustrating very quickly.

From this video alone, it seems like Bell is saying one thing while promoting another. Why didn't they ask him about that? It's a simple question...and it's to the point...and it cuts out alot of the crap.

It seems that they can't get any direct answers out of him because they are not asking him that one direct/straight to the point question.

It seems that they are wasting time trying to play a stupid game of "Who knows the Bible better?"

Candlemass wrote:You can't nail this guy down on anything, he equivocates more then a politician on the campaign trail!   

Yes he does, at least for the first 4 minutes or so.

But, who the hell does the think he is telling people that they should be monogamous? He's so judgmental. It's people like him that turn me off of religion.

This whole video seems to goes wrong exactly at the 0:53 second time time mark. 

As soon as that dude says..."Can I ask some questions? It is the grounding for that statement that I find interesting. So are you saying "I don't think a guy having sex with a guy is sinful"?"

^ That's where this whole video went downhill and became a stupid game of "Who knows the Bible better?"

This video seems to have started late. I'd like to hear what they were saying BEFORE the camera started to roll because I didn't hear Bell mention anything at all about two men having sex with each other much less whether he thinks it's sinful or not. So how can he be saying what that other dude seems to be asserting?

I don't know. It's seems more like Bell is dodging saying what he believe and the guy is asking questions to draw out Bells beliefs. Anyway, I have no respect for Bell as he is super mealy mouthed in the video. He should be a man and come right out and say what he believes.

Speaking of manhood... there's too much coincidence going on. So, "Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy."

d@v!d wrote:I don't know. It's seems more like Bell is dodging saying what he believe and the guy is asking questions to draw out Bells beliefs.

There's no real reason to draw out all of Bell's beliefs without addressing what he has already stated. What would be the point of drawing out all of his beliefs? To publicly embarrass and frustrate him?

This video seems more like an interrogation than it does an honest discussion.

Mortal wrote:

d@v!d wrote:I don't know. It's seems more like Bell is dodging saying what he believe and the guy is asking questions to draw out Bells beliefs.

There's no real reason to draw out all of Bell's beliefs without addressing what he has already stated. What would be the point of drawing out all of his beliefs? To publicly embarrass and frustrate him?

This video seems more like an interrogation than it does an honest discussion.

Maybe it's an interrogation, but Bell comes across as dishonest.

d@v!d wrote:

Mortal wrote:

d@v!d wrote:I don't know. It's seems more like Bell is dodging saying what he believe and the guy is asking questions to draw out Bells beliefs.

There's no real reason to draw out all of Bell's beliefs without addressing what he has already stated. What would be the point of drawing out all of his beliefs? To publicly embarrass and frustrate him?

This video seems more like an interrogation than it does an honest discussion.

Maybe it's an interrogation, but Bell comes across as dishonest.

Maybe he knows that they are trying to interrogate and embarrass him, and he doesn't feel like he needs to answer to them because they are being dishonest themselves.

I just listened to the video again, and there are many times when these two dudes are really trying to drill him on the question of gay sex. Many times I hear them saying "gay sex...gay sex...gay sex", when Bell hasn't even mentioned anything at all about gay sex.

That's called sexual harassment, folks.

These two dudes can't stick with the subject and address the statements that Bell has already made. So they have to resort to interrogation, embarrassment, and sexual harassment.

Bell may seem to be dishonest here, but look at the atmosphere these other two dudes are trying to create around him. They are far from being honest themselves.

Mortal wrote:

d@v!d wrote:

Mortal wrote:

d@v!d wrote:I don't know. It's seems more like Bell is dodging saying what he believe and the guy is asking questions to draw out Bells beliefs.

There's no real reason to draw out all of Bell's beliefs without addressing what he has already stated. What would be the point of drawing out all of his beliefs? To publicly embarrass and frustrate him?

This video seems more like an interrogation than it does an honest discussion.

Maybe it's an interrogation, but Bell comes across as dishonest.

Maybe he knows that they are trying to interrogate and embarrass him, and he doesn't feel like he needs to answer to them because they are being dishonest themselves.

Could be. What does it matter? He's apostate trash selling a false gospel to the itching ears. Sad.

d@v!d wrote:Could be. What does it matter? He's apostate trash selling a false gospel to the itching ears. Sad.

Speaking of sad, That statement was sad.

Mortal wrote:

d@v!d wrote:Could be. What does it matter? He's apostate trash selling a false gospel to the itching ears. Sad.

Speaking of sad, That statement was sad.

How so?

d@v!d wrote:

Mortal wrote:

d@v!d wrote:Could be. What does it matter? He's apostate trash selling a false gospel to the itching ears. Sad.

Speaking of sad, That statement was sad.

How so?

Well...Do you think it's ok to be dishonest to someone just because you perceive them as being an "apostate piece of trash"?

Even if one has fallen away, perceiving them as "trash" and being dishonest towards them is not going to help.

They still have the chance to turn things around, and fellow Christians should help to pull them out of that fallen state. Not push them further into it.

Saying "what does it matter?" is not the correct Christian response to a person in fallen state.

Mortal wrote:

d@v!d wrote:

Mortal wrote:

d@v!d wrote:Could be. What does it matter? He's apostate trash selling a false gospel to the itching ears. Sad.

Speaking of sad, That statement was sad.

How so?

Well...Do you think it's ok to be dishonest to someone just because you perceive them as being an "apostate piece of trash"?

Even if one has fallen away, perceiving them as "trash" and being dishonest towards them is not going to help.

No, I don't think it's OK to be dishonest like that. My comment wasn't directed toward their treatment of him. I didn't make that clear. I do think that even if they didn't go about with the best methods, their heart is in the right place to expose this false gospel teacher. What I was reacting to was now that I've seen him speak in the interview, I realize that he is indeed apostate trash.

Mortal wrote:I just listened to the video again, and there are many times when these two dudes are really trying to drill him on the question of gay sex. Many times I hear them saying "gay sex...gay sex...gay sex", when Bell hasn't even mentioned anything at all about gay sex.

That's called sexual harassment, folks.

What do you think takes place in homosexual relationships ?

Anyway, I believe Andrew Wilson is simply trying to get Mr Bell to commit to a biblical position one way or the other.

Mortal wrote:

They still have the chance to turn things around, and fellow Christians should help to pull them out of that fallen state. Not push them further into it.

What about protecting other Christians from the teaching of false teachers ?

And of course, during the process, they can heed the Word of God or continue in their rebellion.

Mortal wrote:

It seems that they are wasting time trying to play a stupid game of "Who knows the Bible better?"

I'm sure Rob Bell knows what the bible says about homosexual sin. I believe Andrew Wilson is simply trying to get from him how he arrived to his feelings in light of the bible.

d@v!d wrote:I do think that even if they didn't go about with the best methods, their heart is in the right place to expose this false gospel teacher.

Based on this interrogation...I mean interview, I don't think their heart was in the right place. I think it was assumed that he wrong before he even opened his mouth. He may be wrong about certain things, but putting more effort into trying expose him rather than trying to understand and help him is not the right thing to do in my opinion.

d@v!d wrote:What I was reacting to was now that I've seen him speak in the interview, I realize that he is indeed apostate trash.

I'll admit that I don't really know too much about this Bell guy, but based upon this interview alone, I don't see how one can come to the conclusion that he is an "apostate piece of trash".

I think they could have made some good progress if they had simply stuck to the subject of Bell's statements instead of only concerning their minds with "gay sex...gay sex...gay sex...gay sex".

Bell may be wrong about a few things, but I really didn't get the idea that he was "apostate".

Perhaps you just wanted him to be an "apostate piece of trash" before you even pressed "play" for the first time. Now that's sad.

Romans 3:23 states "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"

It does NOT continue on to say "Therefore call them all apostate pieces of trash because it really doesn't matter"

You really need to be careful about the type of gospel you yourself are presenting before you start pointing the finger at others claiming they are "apostate pieces of trash".

Mortal wrote:Saying "what does it matter?" is not the correct Christian response to a person in fallen state.

Good question. I tend to look at things like this in the light of "but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin." This guys goes over the line and is blatantly mocking the Spirit of God. I write him off as a goner. It's one thing to be mired in sin and rebellion to God, we should encourage repentance, but it's in the territory of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit to twist the Bible into making a false gospel like Bell does.