..and the apostasy is complete.

Ok...Here are some things that concern me.

d@v!d wrote:

Mortal wrote:Christ warns us NOT to call anyone a moros, but yet you can somehow adequately explain why it's ok for you to do so??

Yes He does, but that is in the context of flying off the handle and holding murder in your heart over a relatively trivial matter. That doesn't apply here.

It seems you have completely missed the context, d@v!d.

It is NEVER acceptable to hold murder in your heart.

You seem to be saying that it is ok and acceptable as long it's not over something petty.

d@v!d wrote:I'm not here to merely call names. This guy is Bad news and ought to be decried.

You are absolutely right. You didn't just merely call names (like calling someone a poo poo head or something like that).

You committed murder (spiritual murder) with names like "apostate trash" and "goner".

d@v!d wrote:What words do most people have for a child molester, or the guy in ISIS cutting of heads or burning a man to death, or name another horrendous act? There are lines that we draw and when one crosses it they are called out in the most despicable terms. People like Bell cross that line for me as I have explained my perspective on the value of the gospel.

I don't care about any of that. Can you explain why it's ok for you to call Bell the names that you did?

You haven't done that yet.

d@v!d wrote:OK, I don't believe that any human being is potentially beyond grace or repentance while there is still breath.

If this is true, why did you call him "apostate trash" and a "goner"?

You seem to really put the final nails in the coffin with those names.

I don't see any opportunity for grace or repentance with those names.

Well d@v!d, I've taken a second look, and I still don't see where you have adequately explained HOW Bell has committed the unpardonable sin.

Nor have you explained WHY it is ok to call someone such harsh names after Christ told us not to.

I've tried to be reasonable....Now it's your turn, d@v!d.

Can you explain those things?

Or is it all going to come back on me being unreasonable, crazy and mad?

Mortal wrote:Ok...Here are some things that concern me.

First of all, I must be mad to be engaging you here over all this. This thread isn't about me. It's about evil Bell. Which seems beyond you.
I'm answering because you are publicly calling me out on sin. Something I deny.

It seems you have completely missed the context, d@v!d.

No, you don't understand the scripture. You are claiming I'm sinning based up your false interpretation.

"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell."

He is getting to the heart of the issue of murder. It's not only wrong to murder another, but it is just as wrong to desire it. When you get angry with someone else and call him a 'fool', it is akin to committing murder in your heart.

Yes, there is passion in my description of Bell, but it's indignation based on a righteous condemnation of his actions.

"Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it."

The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”

Discernment. There are lines that people cross that warrant their condemnation. When people do despicable things it is right to call them fools. I believe that Bell has crossed that line.

d@v!d wrote:OK, I don't believe that any human being is potentially beyond grace or repentance while there is still breath.

If this is true, why did you call him "apostate trash" and a "goner"?

You seem to really put the final nails in the coffin with those names.

I don't see any opportunity for grace or repentance with those names.

I don't put any nails into anyone's coffins. It's you who likes to make things become more than they are. I was hoping you would see that already in re-reading the thread...alas...

The man is acting like trash doing what he's doing. I hold no certain knowledge of God's intentions of mercy for him, but he does look like a 'goner.' I hope the best for him as with all men, but that doesn't lessen any my disgust at his current actions. Forgive me for having a heart.

I think an illustration might warranted here.

If Rob Bell and I were driving on the freeway and he cut me off and I screamed at him, 'you fool!' I'd be guilty of Matt 5:22. If Rob Bell goes on national TV and proclaimed, 'there is no god.' It would be right to call him a fool.

What he is teaching is akin to saying there is no god.

d@v!d wrote:First of all, I must be mad to be engaging you here over all this. This thread isn't about me. It's about evil Bell. Which seems beyond you.
I'm answering because you are publicly calling me out on sin. Something I deny.

So let me get this straight.

You don't mind calling out Bell publicly, but when it comes to you yourself being called out publicly, it should be denied.

You are correct when you say that this thread isn't about you in particular. But at this point, I am more concerned with your statements than I am Bell's statements.

d@v!d wrote:No, you don't understand the scripture. You are claiming I'm sinning based up your false interpretation.

I understand the Scripture quite well.

d@v!d wrote:He is getting to the heart of the issue of murder. It's not only wrong to murder another, but it is just as wrong to desire it. When you get angry with someone else and call him a 'fool', it is akin to committing murder in your heart.

Why is it considered murder in your heart? Do you know why?

Because it is a spiritual murder.

Calling someone a moros (and I highly suggest you check out the word in the Greek) is essentially murdering their soul.

When you say that a person has absolutely no chance of making it right with the Heavenly Father, you have completely thrown the opportunity of repentance out the window and essentially murdered their soul.

d@v!d wrote:Yes, there is passion in my description of Bell, but it's indignation based on a righteous condemnation of his actions.

I think alot of your anger is just that...YOUR ANGER...and has nothing at all to do with righteous indignation.

d@v!d wrote:Discernment. There are lines that people cross that warrant their condemnation. When people do despicable things it is right to call them fools. I believe that Bell has crossed that line.

Calling someone a "fool" in the sense of saying "foolish one" isn't so bad. Paul did that when he said "Thou fool!"

But Paul never called anyone a "fool" as in "moros".

d@v!d wrote:I don't put any nails into anyone's coffins. It's you who likes to make things become more than they are. I was hoping you would see that already in re-reading the thread...alas...

You stated that Bell committed the unpardonable sin.

That sounds like a nail in the coffin to me.

d@v!d wrote:The man is acting like trash doing what he's doing. I hold no certain knowledge of God's intentions of mercy for him, but he does look like a 'goner.' I hope the best for him as with all men, but that doesn't lessen any my disgust at his current actions. Forgive me for having a heart.

You say you hope the best for him, but how is their any hope for him, in your opinion, if he has committed the unpardonable sin?

Having a heart isn't so bad, d@v!d.

Mortal wrote:So let me get this straight.

That's a proven impossibility.


Tenía que ser..

d@v!d wrote:That's a proven impossibility.

That's a "duck and dodge the question".

Yeah this thread is done (er, was done a long time ago).  If you two want to carry on about your personal beliefs, that's totally fine but please do so via PM.