Thrash, death, or black metal?

Also I gotta say, I respectfully disagree with those saying Reign In Blood is an overrated album. It still holds up as an excellent example of thrash and proto-death metal, was totally ground breaking when it came out in ‘86, and influenced legions of bands. It had a defining impact on the thrash and death metal genres. Just my $0.02.

Influential doesn’t inherently mean good. It’s not really a statement of quality. 

I don’t dislike Reign in Blood (musically). Angel of Death, Altar of Sacrifice, Postmortem, and Raining Blood are all great songs (again, musically). But the rest of the album is a monotonous blur. Seasons in the Abyss is where it’s at. (And Living Sacrifice’s debut, of course).

A lot of albums are ground-breaking.  I think RiB largely influenced bands I don't listen to who think that pure speed is more important than riffs.  All the best 80s thrash bands IMHO were already influenced heavily by the first 2 Metallica and Slayer abums as much if not more than Reign in Blood.

Pethead wrote:Influential doesn’t inherently mean good. It’s not really a statement of quality. 

I don’t dislike Reign in Blood (musically). Angel of Death, Altar of Sacrifice, Postmortem, and Raining Blood are all great songs (again, musically). But the rest of the album is a monotonous blur. Seasons in the Abyss is where it’s at. (And Living Sacrifice’s debut, of course).

I guess this is where personal taste comes in. The non-stop blistering speed and intensity is part of the appeal of RiB for me. I do like Seasons too, though.

Snakes & Metal wrote:

Pethead wrote:Influential doesn’t inherently mean good. It’s not really a statement of quality. 

I don’t dislike Reign in Blood (musically). Angel of Death, Altar of Sacrifice, Postmortem, and Raining Blood are all great songs (again, musically). But the rest of the album is a monotonous blur. Seasons in the Abyss is where it’s at. (And Living Sacrifice’s debut, of course).

I guess this is where personal taste comes in. The non-stop blistering speed and intensity is part of the appeal of RiB for me. I do like Seasons too, though.

Try Sadus - Swallowed in Black if you wanna hear the fastest thrash.

Actually, Reign In Blood was Def metal.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Snakes & Metal wrote:

Pethead wrote:Influential doesn’t inherently mean good. It’s not really a statement of quality. 

I don’t dislike Reign in Blood (musically). Angel of Death, Altar of Sacrifice, Postmortem, and Raining Blood are all great songs (again, musically). But the rest of the album is a monotonous blur. Seasons in the Abyss is where it’s at. (And Living Sacrifice’s debut, of course).

I guess this is where personal taste comes in. The non-stop blistering speed and intensity is part of the appeal of RiB for me. I do like Seasons too, though.

Try Sadus - Swallowed in Black if you wanna hear the fastest thrash.

Yeah, Sadus is insane.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Snakes & Metal wrote:

Pethead wrote:Influential doesn’t inherently mean good. It’s not really a statement of quality. 

I don’t dislike Reign in Blood (musically). Angel of Death, Altar of Sacrifice, Postmortem, and Raining Blood are all great songs (again, musically). But the rest of the album is a monotonous blur. Seasons in the Abyss is where it’s at. (And Living Sacrifice’s debut, of course).

I guess this is where personal taste comes in. The non-stop blistering speed and intensity is part of the appeal of RiB for me. I do like Seasons too, though.

Try Sadus - Swallowed in Black if you wanna hear the fastest thrash.

That’s a great album! Pleasure to Kill by Kreator is another one that’s crazy fast.

We should also mention Dark Angel’s Darkness Descends and Leave Scars.

Totally agree. Gene Hoglan’s drumming is top notch.

Pethead wrote:We should also mention Dark Angel’s Darkness Descends and Leave Scars.

Two albums I enjoy a lot more than RiB.  Especially Leave Scars which is in my top 5 thrash albums probably.

Leave Scars is absolutely vicious. Time Does Not Heal is my favorite, though.

seth wrote:I’ve never really understood the appeal of “raw” production in black metal. In my opinion it, like all other genres, sounds best with high-quality production. As long as it isn’t over-produced to the point of sounding artificial (that also goes for any genre)

There's "raw" as in amateur recording which is certainly notorious in black metal, but there's also "raw" as in actually a very nice studio, but steps taken to keep the sonics analog and the brightness out of the sound.

I feel like many Christian extreme metal artists, don't take production into artistic consideration.  They just go with production that's cleaner/brighter/better/more-expensive/etc, and that actually works against the genre sound in a number of ways.  (in a similar way a brightly lit clean-and-sterile-as-a-pharmacy interior would be for a haunted house.  There's a way to implement darkness, dirt and cobwebs without having the place look like a dump instead.)

After listening to more black metal recently, it has reclaimed its spot as my favorite type of metal.

I honestly pretty rarely listen to music for musicality; I more often listen to it as an aid in my life. I've always been drawn to music that was sincere and more than the sum of its parts. In the old days it was often about meditation, "things heard/seen in dreams", demonic communication, and so on. Nowadays the goal is Christocentric.** So things like encouragement, reminders, theological education, edification, rebuke, etc. Black metal is the best for this in my experience, as it focuses more on atmosphere/mood than death or thrash metal. Also, for whatever reason, black metal lends itself more to a sense of dignity and valor, whereas death/thrash tend to be more showy and flashy. (Think of all the thrash bands that talk about drinking, for instance, compared to the black metal bands who talk about knighthood/medieval battle/etc.) Approaching this from a Christian framework, the medieval themes inspire a sense of honor/chivalry which is crucial to keeping one's eye on righteousness in a world of wickedness that is always yelling louder and louder for our attention. Think the armor of God in Ephesians. The directly-quoted Biblical lyrics are, well, the word of our Lord! The more personal lyrics about depression and various other struggles (which black metal tends to be very blunt about) help assure us that we're not alone during times of hardship.

In this sense, things like sound quality are usually irrelevant to me. From bedroom black metal to MTV artificial production, it's fine as long as it's genuine, heartfelt worship music, and it was made the way it was out of a desire to serve God. Same with simple vs technical playing. The actual "music itself" only becomes a problem to me if something interferes with the artist's vision. (We could add "if the artist gets lazy/sloppy" to this, but then that typically becomes sloth, not a desire to serve God.)

With death metal, I like it, but am picky. A lot of death metal (and thrash honestly) is "all bark and no bite" - brutal/fast, but lacking in deeply-rooted personal conviction. One of my favorite musical styles ever is doom/death (especially the very gothic-tinged stuff!) As far as normal death metal, I tend to prefer the more brutal stuff (say, Broken Flesh over Mortification). With thrash, ............. It very very rarely has an "atmosphere" so I don't listen to it much. Ritual Servant has some good stuff. I really like Arise (later "Arise Eternal") for some reason.


** We could still use the word "meditation" (Psalm 19:14), but I try to avoid this word, as it's easy to get it confused with the new age meditation that we see today (demonic activity in disguise).

nocturnaliridescence wrote:

** We could still use the word "meditation" (Psalm 19:14), but I try to avoid this word, as it's easy to get it confused with the new age meditation that we see today (demonic activity in disguise).

Meditation=demons in disguise lolz... (see what religion does to the mind guys everything be demons and satan) the only demonz that exist are the ones that live on this planet and they are called mankind.

Dustofyears wrote:

nocturnaliridescence wrote:

** We could still use the word "meditation" (Psalm 19:14), but I try to avoid this word, as it's easy to get it confused with the new age meditation that we see today (demonic activity in disguise).

Meditation=demons in disguise lolz... (see what religion does to the mind guys everything be demons and satan) the only demonz that exist are the ones that live on this planet and they are called mankind.

New-age style meditation is an inherently spiritual practice that is opposed to Biblical spirituality. From the Christian perspective, any spiritual being which rebels against God is called a demon, and humans engaging in spiritual practices contrary to those of God are following the ways of demons. Hence why we say new-age practices (like meditation) are demonic. It’s not just “anything I don’t understand is satanic.” 
Christianity teaches that we should practice discernment and wisdom. We should analyze our thoughts, “taking them captive” as the Bible says, and determine whether they represent Truth. Eastern meditation, on the other hand, involves simply “going with the flow” of your thoughts, and “observing” them without judgment or analysis (at least according to the descriptions I have heard from those who promote it). I have even heard it described as trying to “empty your mind.” This allows irrational, negative, and even demonically-influenced thoughts to infiltrate the mind unobstructed. I know you reject Christianity, but I am sure you can see why meditation is incompatible with it.

“The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist”
- Charles Baudelaire

"I know you reject Christianity, but I am sure you can see why meditation is incompatible with it."


Prayer IS meditation. Speaking in tongues is a mantra and form of meditation and self hypnosis, going to church raising your hands and repeating words like glory to god, praise god, thank you Jesus, Hallelujah etc, is a form of mantra and meditation. I'd say Christianity and religion is ESPECIALLY very compatible with meditation wouldn't you.

I know you are going to call it worship and relationship with God and call it something different for convenience etc but still it never ceases to amaze how people wanna see what they wanna see yet can't see something for what it obtensibly is it makes me wanna cry... There are no demons broski just the evil nature of man...  

Dustofyears wrote:"I know you reject Christianity, but I am sure you can see why meditation is incompatible with it."


Prayer IS meditation. Speaking in tongues is a mantra and form of meditation and self hypnosis, going to church raising your hands and repeating words like glory to god, praise god, thank you Jesus, Hallelujah etc, is a form of mantra and meditation. I'd say Christianity and religion is ESPECIALLY very compatible with meditation wouldn't you.

I know you are going to call it worship and relationship with God and call it something different for convenience etc but still it never ceases to amaze how people wanna see what they wanna see yet can't see something for what it obtensibly is it makes me wanna cry... There are no demons broski just the evil nature of man...  

Should have been more clear, I meant eastern-style transcendental meditation. Yes, Christians do “meditate” on the word of God and other things, but that is not at all the same practice as what is commonly known as meditation today (transcendental meditation)

I am sure this is falling on deaf ears, but evil is “both-and” not “either-or.” There is the evil nature of man, and there are also darker things than man on this planet. They tend to hide themselves in the pseudo-enlightened western world, except sometimes to those poor fools who go looking for them via occult practices. They have no need to show themselves, since the skeptics are already right where they want them (see the Baudelaire quote). However, in cultures where belief in spirits is the norm, they do not hide. Even apart from the Bible, I have heard far too many testimonies from credible people who have immersed themselves in such cultures to believe otherwise.

Dustofyears wrote:"I know you reject Christianity, but I am sure you can see why meditation is incompatible with it."


Prayer IS meditation. Speaking in tongues is a mantra and form of meditation and self hypnosis, going to church raising your hands and repeating words like glory to god, praise god, thank you Jesus, Hallelujah etc, is a form of mantra and meditation. I'd say Christianity and religion is ESPECIALLY very compatible with meditation wouldn't you.

I know you are going to call it worship and relationship with God and call it something different for convenience etc but still it never ceases to amaze how people wanna see what they wanna see yet can't see something for what it obtensibly is it makes me wanna cry... There are no demons broski just the evil nature of man...  

And I would also say that some of the things you listed do in fact have more in common with hypnosis and mantras than with actual Biblical Christianity. Such practices are common in charismatic churches, and are very problematic imo. Celebrating chaotic emotional reactions, speaking in gibberish tongues, repeating words to work yourself up emotionally, etc could definitely be considered in the same vein as more blatant pagan practices. Like I said, God values discernment and wisdom. Not emotional frenzy and “self-hypnosis” in any form

seth wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:"I know you reject Christianity, but I am sure you can see why meditation is incompatible with it."


Prayer IS meditation. Speaking in tongues is a mantra and form of meditation and self hypnosis, going to church raising your hands and repeating words like glory to god, praise god, thank you Jesus, Hallelujah etc, is a form of mantra and meditation. I'd say Christianity and religion is ESPECIALLY very compatible with meditation wouldn't you.

I know you are going to call it worship and relationship with God and call it something different for convenience etc but still it never ceases to amaze how people wanna see what they wanna see yet can't see something for what it obtensibly is it makes me wanna cry... There are no demons broski just the evil nature of man...  

Should have been more clear, I meant eastern-style transcendental meditation. Yes, Christians do “meditate” on the word of God and other things, but that is not at all the same practice as what is commonly known as meditation today (transcendental meditation)

I am sure this is falling on deaf ears, but evil is “both-and” not “either-or.” There is the evil nature of man, and there are also darker things than man on this planet. They tend to hide themselves in the pseudo-enlightened western world, except sometimes to those poor fools who go looking for them via occult practices. They have no need to show themselves, since the skeptics are already right where they want them (see the Baudelaire quote). However, in cultures where belief in spirits is the norm, they do not hide. Even apart from the Bible, I have heard far too many testimonies from credible people who have immersed themselves in such cultures to believe otherwise.

I take that back there is always a possibility demons could be real and to say there is no such thing is to say I know it for fact. I don't. However personally I don't buy into the notion of demons unless proven etc, but think they are pretty cool fictional characters to use in movies etc.

Yes I know the quote it's on LS Reborn album think if remember correctly. It's on a Christian metal album anyway and know the quote. Clever oil words dripping in snake oil. Then again if someone can prove Satan to me I'll gladly take it back. otherwise try think above them if you can.

Testimonies are fine but I don't believe in Ghosts because other people claim they have them and that's not to say there are no ghosts but peoples words are mixed with feelings and feelings are usually manipulated therefore views are obscured or could for any reason, like that guy that died and went to heaven (stung by jelly fish or something) been a long while can't remember name but sure you know who I mean....

Christianity does exactly the same things it claims it doesn't it do but gives them different names... Like sorcery and magic is God's divine power... rods turning into serpents seas dividing is not magic but God. It just makes want to cry like mentioned before lolz. ANyway can see this go nowhere nevertheless rock on as you were.

seth wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:"I know you reject Christianity, but I am sure you can see why meditation is incompatible with it."


Prayer IS meditation. Speaking in tongues is a mantra and form of meditation and self hypnosis, going to church raising your hands and repeating words like glory to god, praise god, thank you Jesus, Hallelujah etc, is a form of mantra and meditation. I'd say Christianity and religion is ESPECIALLY very compatible with meditation wouldn't you.

I know you are going to call it worship and relationship with God and call it something different for convenience etc but still it never ceases to amaze how people wanna see what they wanna see yet can't see something for what it obtensibly is it makes me wanna cry... There are no demons broski just the evil nature of man...  

And I would also say that some of the things you listed do in fact have more in common with hypnosis and mantras than with actual Biblical Christianity. Such practices are common in charismatic churches, and are very problematic imo. Celebrating chaotic emotional reactions, speaking in gibberish tongues, repeating words to work yourself up emotionally, etc could definitely be considered in the same vein as more blatant pagan practices. Like I said, God values discernment and wisdom. Not emotional frenzy and “self-hypnosis” in any form

hey man we agree on something All goods fren

Dustofyears wrote:

seth wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:"I know you reject Christianity, but I am sure you can see why meditation is incompatible with it."


Prayer IS meditation. Speaking in tongues is a mantra and form of meditation and self hypnosis, going to church raising your hands and repeating words like glory to god, praise god, thank you Jesus, Hallelujah etc, is a form of mantra and meditation. I'd say Christianity and religion is ESPECIALLY very compatible with meditation wouldn't you.

I know you are going to call it worship and relationship with God and call it something different for convenience etc but still it never ceases to amaze how people wanna see what they wanna see yet can't see something for what it obtensibly is it makes me wanna cry... There are no demons broski just the evil nature of man...  

Should have been more clear, I meant eastern-style transcendental meditation. Yes, Christians do “meditate” on the word of God and other things, but that is not at all the same practice as what is commonly known as meditation today (transcendental meditation)

I am sure this is falling on deaf ears, but evil is “both-and” not “either-or.” There is the evil nature of man, and there are also darker things than man on this planet. They tend to hide themselves in the pseudo-enlightened western world, except sometimes to those poor fools who go looking for them via occult practices. They have no need to show themselves, since the skeptics are already right where they want them (see the Baudelaire quote). However, in cultures where belief in spirits is the norm, they do not hide. Even apart from the Bible, I have heard far too many testimonies from credible people who have immersed themselves in such cultures to believe otherwise.

I take that back there is always a possibility demons could be real and to say there is no such thing is to say I know it for fact. I don't. However personally I don't buy into the notion of demons unless proven etc, but think they are pretty cool fictional characters to use in movies etc.

Yes I know the quote it's on LS Reborn album think if remember correctly. It's on a Christian metal album anyway and know the quote. Clever oil words dripping in snake oil. Then again if someone can prove Satan to me I'll gladly take it back. otherwise try think above them if you can.

Testimonies are fine but I don't believe in Ghosts because other people claim they have them and that's not to say there are no ghosts but peoples words are mixed with feelings and feelings are usually manipulated therefore views are obscured or could for any reason, like that guy that died and went to heaven (stung by jelly fish or something) been a long while can't remember name but sure you know who I mean....

Christianity does exactly the same things it claims it doesn't it do but gives them different names... Like sorcery and magic is God's divine power... rods turning into serpents seas dividing is not magic but God. It just makes want to cry like mentioned before lolz. ANyway can see this go nowhere nevertheless rock on as you were.

“Christianity does exactly the same things it claims it doesn’t do but gives them different names” this is simply false. “Sorcery and magic” are just simplistic, colloquial terms for actions which invoke supernatural power. Christians don’t claim such things don’t exist. In fact the Bible is clear that they do. From the example you yourself mentioned of rods turning into serpents, Moses is not the only one who that happened to. The egyptian magicians also had their rods turn into serpents (which were promptly eaten by Moses’s snake). The difference is the source of the power. Followers of God are commanded to not invoke supernatural power from other sources than God. Not because they don’t exist, but because that power would come from entities in active rebellion against God (aka demons). Entities who ultimately want to destroy everything God loves. I don’t think it’s too hard to see why, from a Christian perspective, miracles from God and other forms of “magic” (supernatural occurrences) are in different categories.

Dustofyears wrote:

nocturnaliridescence wrote:

** We could still use the word "meditation" (Psalm 19:14), but I try to avoid this word, as it's easy to get it confused with the new age meditation that we see today (demonic activity in disguise).

Meditation=demons in disguise lolz... (see what religion does to the mind guys everything be demons and satan) the only demonz that exist are the ones that live on this planet and they are called mankind.

Me: Years of personal experience and theological research
You: Ad-hominem; misspellings; claims with nothing to back them up.

Think about this for a second. Really truly think.