Thrash, death, or black metal?

Temple of Blood wrote:I like the idea of black metal more than what it actually is.

I like it as a reaction against death metal:  bringing back keyboards into metal, adding back melody, doing high anguished shrieks, not trying to do the tough guy post-Pantera thing.

But the songs are just garbage.  I don't believe most any of these guys could write a good simple metal song.

Melodeath stinks too, mostly because they don't really understand melody.  I rarely hear them do anything interesting with actual scales or chord progressions which are the actual tools of melody.  It sounds like death vocals over 4th-rate Iron Maiden ripoff patterns.

Have you ever heard Wintersun? I think they are the best example of melodic death metal I’ve heard, the melodies are even, dare I say, catchy. Listen to their song Starchild for a good example

Wintersun popped into my mind too. Winter Madness has my favorite guitar solo ever.

And for good melodic black metal, Divine Symphony is a really good example. Cry in the Dark is their best song imo, they combine black metal vocals with operatic female vocals a lot on their first album for an interesting effect

seth wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:I like the idea of black metal more than what it actually is.

I like it as a reaction against death metal:  bringing back keyboards into metal, adding back melody, doing high anguished shrieks, not trying to do the tough guy post-Pantera thing.

But the songs are just garbage.  I don't believe most any of these guys could write a good simple metal song.

Melodeath stinks too, mostly because they don't really understand melody.  I rarely hear them do anything interesting with actual scales or chord progressions which are the actual tools of melody.  It sounds like death vocals over 4th-rate Iron Maiden ripoff patterns.

Have you ever heard Wintersun? I think they are the best example of melodic death metal I’ve heard, the melodies are even, dare I say, catchy. Listen to their song Starchild for a good example

I'm listening to this right now.  This sounds very, very corny.  Like sped-up folk music put into ProTools.

I hate goofy Euro-flower metal stuff.  It's clear this vocal style doesn't fit with this major-key music too.  Just ridiculous.

I wanna see somebody Riverdance to this really fast because that's what fits this style.

Well I do tend to like cheesy-sounding power metal lol, so maybe that’s why I also like Wintersun

CrimsonWarrior wrote:ToB, have you ever listened to Lengsel's Solace? For some reason I have a feeling there is a chance you would like it.

Well, I'm not an Extol fan so it wasn't very likely I would enjoy this.

I heard a good riff here amongst all the other stuff.  Still absorbing it all.

Long songs can be great, interesting, and compelling.  Stargazer, Metropolis Pt. 1, Seventh Son, Sign of the Cross, that Veni Domine track someone posted a while back, ....

This isn't it.

Sounds like throwing a bunch of stuff against the wall and hoping something will stick.  Then patting your self on the back because you're so "artistic" and "progressive".

Pethead wrote:My favorite Deth song is Rust in Peace…Polaris.

I don’t know that there’s any metal album more overrated than Reign in Blood.

I still have to decide between Holy Wars and RiP for my #2 Megadeth song, but I know my #1 is Tornado of Souls.

seth wrote:I’ve never really understood the appeal of “raw” production in black metal. In my opinion it, like all other genres, sounds best with high-quality production. As long as it isn’t over-produced to the point of sounding artificial (that also goes for any genre)

I think the whole point of black metal isn't to sound good. It's meant to sound abrasive and frantic as if the singer was actively suffering while it's being made. Which can be stupid at times but also makes black good for exploring extremely dark themes. I might be looking into it too much but that's how I see it.

Pethead wrote:Influential doesn’t inherently mean good. It’s not really a statement of quality. 

I don’t dislike Reign in Blood (musically). Angel of Death, Altar of Sacrifice, Postmortem, and Raining Blood are all great songs (again, musically). But the rest of the album is a monotonous blur. Seasons in the Abyss is where it’s at. (And Living Sacrifice’s debut, of course).

Angel of Death is the only song on the album I like lyrically. Thankfully it's also my favorite musically (aside from MAYBE Raining Blood).

Temple of Blood wrote:A lot of albums are ground-breaking.  I think RiB largely influenced bands I don't listen to who think that pure speed is more important than riffs.  All the best 80s thrash bands IMHO were already influenced heavily by the first 2 Metallica and Slayer abums as much if not more than Reign in Blood.

Just like modern metal, where everyone thinks brutality is more important than riffs. That's why modern stuff is so boring.

One of the few threads I've seen that turned into a Dust debate and recovered

To answer:
I've warmed up on black metal recently. Antestor's The Forsaken is a great album. As I said earlier, black can be ideal for portraying certain emotions. But it's still easily my least fav of these three. It's really hard to do it well.

Death metal is great and fights symphonic for my #2 genre (symphonic elements are better than death elements to me, but the pure genre I'd say death is better.) The first three Mortification albums are amazing. Death growls properly done might be the coolest sounding vocal technique out there.

But thrash is by far, without any question my favorite genre of all time. It has variety for one thing, and can be anywhere from practically death metal to barely above NWOBHM. The fast but still hook-driven riffs are my favorite style, but it still allows for lots of 0-0-0. And the singing is aggressive but still can have great hooks. My four favorite bands (Deliverance, Tourniquet, Metallica, and Megadeth) are all thrash. It's literally the perfect genre for me (aside from the lack of violins).

I love Thrash and I love Death, but Black I have a very hard time getting into. I just haven't found many Black metal bands that appeal to me. The only two bands that I do enjoy that I believe are in that category are Slechtvalk and Symphony of Heaven. I am not even sure if Symphony of Heaven qualifies because it seems more like Death metal to me.

StevenCressler wrote:

seth wrote:I’ve never really understood the appeal of “raw” production in black metal. In my opinion it, like all other genres, sounds best with high-quality production. As long as it isn’t over-produced to the point of sounding artificial (that also goes for any genre)

I think the whole point of black metal isn't to sound good. It's meant to sound abrasive and frantic as if the singer was actively suffering while it's being made. Which can be stupid at times but also makes black good for exploring extremely dark themes. I might be looking into it too much but that's how I see it.

Eh it depends. Some black metal is absolutely meant to sound good, and succeeds at doing so imo. Antestor, Divine Symphony, etc being a couple of examples. Then on the other hand you have the severely mentally ill misanthrope recording awful noise on a crappy mic in a basement somewhere, and black metal fans eating it up like it’s a masterpiece

seth wrote:

StevenCressler wrote:

seth wrote:I’ve never really understood the appeal of “raw” production in black metal. In my opinion it, like all other genres, sounds best with high-quality production. As long as it isn’t over-produced to the point of sounding artificial (that also goes for any genre)

I think the whole point of black metal isn't to sound good. It's meant to sound abrasive and frantic as if the singer was actively suffering while it's being made. Which can be stupid at times but also makes black good for exploring extremely dark themes. I might be looking into it too much but that's how I see it.

Eh it depends. Some black metal is absolutely meant to sound good, and succeeds at doing so imo. Antestor, Divine Symphony, etc being a couple of examples. Then on the other hand you have the severely mentally ill misanthrope recording awful noise on a crappy mic in a basement somewhere, and black metal fans eating it up like it’s a masterpiece

True. I still prefer the better sounding stuff (Antestor and Divine Symphony being my top 2 BM bands), but I get where they bad quality fans are coming from.

Black metal when done right is the best of the 3 IMO because it allows for more creativiness and more diverse sound. However, that also allows it to be far worse and in many cases downright terrible and unlistanable which doesnt happen much in death and thrash.

So a band like Antestor who does it so well, and Trebuchet SDG for a newer band that has a great sound, it is very hard to top.

But for each of them, therr are 50 black metal bands that even if its free to download its still not a bargain.