Roger Martinez Letter on YouTube (interesting!)

Wow! Just found this.... pretty interesting... (bad language, so be mindful)

https://youtu.be/kmuzf-ecd-M

Yep! 

There’s no doubt that was Roger. The dude was intense! He has issues that nobody but God knows about. Lots of bottled up anger that he unleashed after the debt/“betrayal” thing. Maybe Roger should have also let the band go like his ex-bandmates and filed bankruptcy. He took the debt and suffered the consequences. He had enough talent that he could’ve started a new band in the same style as VR. 

That guy’s letter is very interesting (to hear Roger’s side of the story). The foul language must’ve been a shock (at the time) coming from a guy that had previously appeared to be the most hardcore Christian metal personality.

This was recommended on YouTube! Haha

Gotta love Pastor Bob!

Another gem I found…

I’m sure jaydeecrawson already has this. 

TZ75 wrote:Another gem I found…

I’m sure jaydeecrawson already has this. 

I'm gonna check out the letter soon. Should be interesting. But man, so brain washed, just like I was. When you first come out of that mindset you first go through an angry kind of purging stage where you turn to Satanic stuff or the occult, and inadvertently without realizing it until you look back, you realize it's kind of like cleansing yourself from the brainwashing. Then one starts to also realize Satanism etc, is all a part of the same silly game. It usually takes something pretty big in life to happen to burst the bubble and start asking questions. It's interesting looking back at how it works. Can relate to Roger very much.

Right, let's check out this letter (I remember getting a random message from Roger years back- it was weird, but he must've been going through the  purging and cleansing stage, and you do, do strange stuff!. Not to mention, he seems to go head first into anything he does, a pretty extreme type of personality.

Brainwashed.

This whole „I am now into sex and drugs“ rant and the inflationary swearing (I get some people swear all the time when they talk but why write it down) came across staged/faked and if I understand him correctly, he adopted this behaviour to deter people from buying VR stuff and attending VR gigs? If that is so, the same could be true for the  whole satanism shtick that followed. However that would not make a lot of sense if he, as I gather, kept the rights to the VR name and back  catalogue. Hence, putting people off would result in less royalties for himself? Just trying to make a bit of sense here but maybe there isn‘t.

P.S. I am rocking my new (used) RUTE shirt as I type this. 

I received the exact same envelope and letter packet back in the day due to ordering the Vengeance Human Sacrifice t-shirt and a poster. Each year I go through my stash of historical items and read through it. Pretty cool historical item but very confusing when I first received it.

Very interesting, thanks for the link!
It's a rather curious look into a time when he was spiraling down very fast, but still believed in the existence of God and didn't yet want people to blame God on his downward spiral. At one point he is specifically asking to not lay any blame on God for it, and there is something heartbreakingly honest and sad in how he feels he isn't in a position to minister anymore and feels it's wrong to sell his records to kids now that he has been suicidal and living a life contrary to what was expected from him. In his weakest moments in his whole life he still feels strongly about not being a bad minister to the point that he wants to boycott his records. It's kinda like he has his heart in a good place and is trying to fix things while standing right in the middle of a tornado.

There are interesting things shown on screen from those papers that he didn't read out loud.

It was surely a huge turning point in his life.


By the way, I just rewatched this documentary trailer on your channel that had Roger's new interviews, which apparently never got finished and released:


I noticed that over a year ago someone in the comments mentioned that he was working with Roger on a new web series. He later told that Roger had been pushing the project back but that it was still going on. Now, about a month ago, the same guy updated that he had finished the interview and was currently editing it, and he said it will be out in a week. So far I haven't found anything about that anywhere yet. But apparently there is a fresh interview with Roger about to be released if that commenter is to be trusted.

Raegoul wrote:However that would not make a lot of sense if he, as I gather, kept the rights to the VR name and back  catalogue. Hence, putting people off would result in less royalties for himself? Just trying to make a bit of sense here but maybe there isn‘t.

This explains it a bit.
One reason for that seems to be to do it out of spite for his ex band members.
Another seems to be that he kinda tries to still be a role model to kids by showing he is willing to lose money in order to fight injustice.
Maybe one is much bigger reason than the other, but at that point in time this was what he thought justice should be. Maybe it was more about a personal vendetta towards the Die Happy members and the "what about the kids" was just to appeal to emotion. But maybe he was honest about the kids too and really thought it would be immoral to continue selling his records for social reasons too instead of just trying to take a jab at the ex band members. Who knows.

I think he likes to play the martyr but this was decades ago, let the drama die.

The guy that posted the video has offered to scan the whole packet of letters.

Black Rider wrote:I think he likes to play the martyr but this was decades ago, let the drama die.

 
Somehow I think it will never die… until the generation of fans that listened to VR are too old to care anymore. This has become like a undying urban legend.

TZ75 wrote:Another gem I found…

I’m sure jaydeecrawson already has this. 

yep. that tape came from me.

Dustofyears wrote:

TZ75 wrote:Another gem I found…

I’m sure jaydeecrawson already has this. 

I'm gonna check out the letter soon. Should be interesting. But man, so brain washed, just like I was. When you first come out of that mindset you first go through an angry kind of purging stage where you turn to Satanic stuff or the occult, and inadvertently without realizing it until you look back, you realize it's kind of like cleansing yourself from the brainwashing. Then one starts to also realize Satanism etc, is all a part of the same silly game. It usually takes something pretty big in life to happen to burst the bubble and start asking questions. It's interesting looking back at how it works. Can relate to Roger very much.

Right, let's check out this letter (I remember getting a random message from Roger years back- it was weird, but he must've been going through the  purging and cleansing stage, and you do, do strange stuff!. Not to mention, he seems to go head first into anything he does, a pretty extreme type of personality.

very good points. I also went through a period of intense satanic rebellion... reading "Might is Right", LaVey, Aquino, Crowley, etc... but after years of that, I realized all that resentment and anger was alienating people and turning me into a jerk. Now, I'm back in the Church (capital C), repented and ditched all that occult stuff including some of the bands that I was listening to during that time.

But, you are exactly right. That naive', immature, angry Satanism is just another resentful form of "Christian" Satanism as King Diamond used to say. LoL

Raegoul wrote:This whole „I am now into sex and drugs“ rant and the inflationary swearing (I get some people swear all the time when they talk but why write it down) came across staged/faked and if I understand him correctly, he adopted this behaviour to deter people from buying VR stuff and attending VR gigs? If that is so, the same could be true for the  whole satanism shtick that followed. However that would not make a lot of sense if he, as I gather, kept the rights to the VR name and back  catalogue. Hence, putting people off would result in less royalties for himself? Just trying to make a bit of sense here but maybe there isn‘t.

P.S. I am rocking my new (used) RUTE shirt as I type this. 

If he was smart, he could probably make some money off the brand and logo since he still owns it I assume... there is still a lot of chatter about this story and he probably could market that somehow with the right social media, etc. but he's so unstable.....

He emailed me a few years back and threatened me.... went total Glen Benton style on me and scared my wife half to death too. had to block him.

Nothing like a Martinez firepoker to get things going on the board.

This is like our version of Mustaine vs. Metallica.  The gift that keeps on, umm, giving?

I remember 10 years or so when I burned out in ministry. It seemed like everyone else was the problem, and I could find blame in everyone else. I'm so thankful there were a few people who protected me from going off the deep end and burning bridges.

I'm so far removed from California and the music scene. I watched a Roger Martinez interview a few weeks ago (can't remember where, most of you have probably seen it), but I can't adjudicate who was right or wrong. But the shepherds in my life taught me that I can't control other people, only myself. And through that I discovered that--in my situation--I was mostly to blame.

jaydeecrawson wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:

TZ75 wrote:Another gem I found…

I’m sure jaydeecrawson already has this. 

I'm gonna check out the letter soon. Should be interesting. But man, so brain washed, just like I was. When you first come out of that mindset you first go through an angry kind of purging stage where you turn to Satanic stuff or the occult, and inadvertently without realizing it until you look back, you realize it's kind of like cleansing yourself from the brainwashing. Then one starts to also realize Satanism etc, is all a part of the same silly game. It usually takes something pretty big in life to happen to burst the bubble and start asking questions. It's interesting looking back at how it works. Can relate to Roger very much.

Right, let's check out this letter (I remember getting a random message from Roger years back- it was weird, but he must've been going through the  purging and cleansing stage, and you do, do strange stuff!. Not to mention, he seems to go head first into anything he does, a pretty extreme type of personality.

very good points. I also went through a period of intense satanic rebellion... reading "Might is Right", LaVey, Aquino, Crowley, etc... but after years of that, I realized all that resentment and anger was alienating people and turning me into a jerk. Now, I'm back in the Church (capital C), repented and ditched all that occult stuff including some of the bands that I was listening to during that time.

But, you are exactly right. That naive', immature, angry Satanism is just another resentful form of "Christian" Satanism as King Diamond used to say. LoL

I never looked back. Went to my old pastor's wife's funeral some years back and hadn't seen those people (who I loved back then) for years and years. All those same faces from another life time ago. It was like stepping into a time warp, nothing about them had changed and they all said the same things, had that same sickly glazed, almost hypnotized look in their eyes, which I had not noticed when I was a part of it. It creeped me out to think It could be me still stuck there like that. I'm grateful for what happened. And this letter here from Roger seems to be at that point where he is questioning everything he believes in right before he's about to snap, soon to step into the purging stage, shredding his skin from years of mantras and indoctrination. It's a horrible and confusing and angry spot to be in. The swearing in the letter is not fake or put on, its part of cycle, like vomiting your soul out to cleanse it. This is a very interesting part of Christian Metal history. Lucky for those of you who got it if you're a collector of all things Christian rock and metal.

Thanks for sharing it.

jaydeecrawson wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:

TZ75 wrote:Another gem I found…

I’m sure jaydeecrawson already has this. 

I'm gonna check out the letter soon. Should be interesting. But man, so brain washed, just like I was. When you first come out of that mindset you first go through an angry kind of purging stage where you turn to Satanic stuff or the occult, and inadvertently without realizing it until you look back, you realize it's kind of like cleansing yourself from the brainwashing. Then one starts to also realize Satanism etc, is all a part of the same silly game. It usually takes something pretty big in life to happen to burst the bubble and start asking questions. It's interesting looking back at how it works. Can relate to Roger very much.

Right, let's check out this letter (I remember getting a random message from Roger years back- it was weird, but he must've been going through the  purging and cleansing stage, and you do, do strange stuff!. Not to mention, he seems to go head first into anything he does, a pretty extreme type of personality.

very good points. I also went through a period of intense satanic rebellion... reading "Might is Right", LaVey, Aquino, Crowley, etc... but after years of that, I realized all that resentment and anger was alienating people and turning me into a jerk. Now, I'm back in the Church (capital C), repented and ditched all that occult stuff including some of the bands that I was listening to during that time.

But, you are exactly right. That naive', immature, angry Satanism is just another resentful form of "Christian" Satanism as King Diamond used to say. LoL

So you’re no longer doing those candle altars in the graveyard reviews? LOL

jaydeecrawson wrote:

Raegoul wrote:This whole „I am now into sex and drugs“ rant and the inflationary swearing (I get some people swear all the time when they talk but why write it down) came across staged/faked and if I understand him correctly, he adopted this behaviour to deter people from buying VR stuff and attending VR gigs? If that is so, the same could be true for the  whole satanism shtick that followed. However that would not make a lot of sense if he, as I gather, kept the rights to the VR name and back  catalogue. Hence, putting people off would result in less royalties for himself? Just trying to make a bit of sense here but maybe there isn‘t.

P.S. I am rocking my new (used) RUTE shirt as I type this. 

If he was smart, he could probably make some money off the brand and logo since he still owns it I assume... there is still a lot of chatter about this story and he probably could market that somehow with the right social media, etc. but he's so unstable.....

He emailed me a few years back and threatened me.... went total Glen Benton style on me and scared my wife half to death too. had to block him.

So he threatened to find you and show up at your doorstep (or something like that)??

TZ75 wrote:

jaydeecrawson wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:

TZ75 wrote:Another gem I found…

I’m sure jaydeecrawson already has this. 

I'm gonna check out the letter soon. Should be interesting. But man, so brain washed, just like I was. When you first come out of that mindset you first go through an angry kind of purging stage where you turn to Satanic stuff or the occult, and inadvertently without realizing it until you look back, you realize it's kind of like cleansing yourself from the brainwashing. Then one starts to also realize Satanism etc, is all a part of the same silly game. It usually takes something pretty big in life to happen to burst the bubble and start asking questions. It's interesting looking back at how it works. Can relate to Roger very much.

Right, let's check out this letter (I remember getting a random message from Roger years back- it was weird, but he must've been going through the  purging and cleansing stage, and you do, do strange stuff!. Not to mention, he seems to go head first into anything he does, a pretty extreme type of personality.

very good points. I also went through a period of intense satanic rebellion... reading "Might is Right", LaVey, Aquino, Crowley, etc... but after years of that, I realized all that resentment and anger was alienating people and turning me into a jerk. Now, I'm back in the Church (capital C), repented and ditched all that occult stuff including some of the bands that I was listening to during that time.

But, you are exactly right. That naive', immature, angry Satanism is just another resentful form of "Christian" Satanism as King Diamond used to say. LoL

So you’re no longer doing those candle altars in the graveyard reviews? LOL

no... too many creepy people contacting me and scaring my family half to death.. had to take 'em down

but it was fun for a while.... lot of interesting experiences and fun albums to review but had WAY too many weirdos and cringy people commenting and emailing me.

Just wondering, did anyone else get an email or face book message or message of any kind from Roger years back about a script from some sort of production he was planning? It was a blasphemous script for some play or something he was writing. Wish I kept it, even had some of the script attached to it... anyone recieve anything like that?

TZ75 wrote:

jaydeecrawson wrote:

Raegoul wrote:This whole „I am now into sex and drugs“ rant and the inflationary swearing (I get some people swear all the time when they talk but why write it down) came across staged/faked and if I understand him correctly, he adopted this behaviour to deter people from buying VR stuff and attending VR gigs? If that is so, the same could be true for the  whole satanism shtick that followed. However that would not make a lot of sense if he, as I gather, kept the rights to the VR name and back  catalogue. Hence, putting people off would result in less royalties for himself? Just trying to make a bit of sense here but maybe there isn‘t.

P.S. I am rocking my new (used) RUTE shirt as I type this. 

If he was smart, he could probably make some money off the brand and logo since he still owns it I assume... there is still a lot of chatter about this story and he probably could market that somehow with the right social media, etc. but he's so unstable.....

He emailed me a few years back and threatened me.... went total Glen Benton style on me and scared my wife half to death too. had to block him.

So he threatened to find you and show up at your doorstep (or something like that)??

no, he asked me to be his "side kick" and start editing the VR wiki online and running his social media. He pretty much "recruited" me and started giving me orders like a drill sergeant, threatening me and blowing my phone up with profanity.... (my work phone too). So, I politely suggested that he would be better qualified and informed to do it since he was actually the singer of the band and I was like 15 when they broke up! 

Then, he had a temper tantrum... sending me super long texts, voicemails... screaming, threatening, using profanity, cursing, etc.

So, I had to block him. Scared my ex wife half to death too since we had planned to fly out there and meet him in LA... 

The dude literally went bananas... bullying, cussing, threatening, name calling, etc.

But, at first he was cool and polite... lot's of fun... but like the countless times I've tried to have a normal, mature conversation with him, it devolves into him asking for money, cussing, bullying, spamming me, etc. it's happened about half a dozen times with him over the last 20 years or so.

He won't even respond to a single question about VR. NOTHING... just spins it around to demand money, giving orders, etc

totally irrational.

Dustofyears wrote:

jaydeecrawson wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:

TZ75 wrote:Another gem I found…

I’m sure jaydeecrawson already has this. 

I'm gonna check out the letter soon. Should be interesting. But man, so brain washed, just like I was. When you first come out of that mindset you first go through an angry kind of purging stage where you turn to Satanic stuff or the occult, and inadvertently without realizing it until you look back, you realize it's kind of like cleansing yourself from the brainwashing. Then one starts to also realize Satanism etc, is all a part of the same silly game. It usually takes something pretty big in life to happen to burst the bubble and start asking questions. It's interesting looking back at how it works. Can relate to Roger very much.

Right, let's check out this letter (I remember getting a random message from Roger years back- it was weird, but he must've been going through the  purging and cleansing stage, and you do, do strange stuff!. Not to mention, he seems to go head first into anything he does, a pretty extreme type of personality.

very good points. I also went through a period of intense satanic rebellion... reading "Might is Right", LaVey, Aquino, Crowley, etc... but after years of that, I realized all that resentment and anger was alienating people and turning me into a jerk. Now, I'm back in the Church (capital C), repented and ditched all that occult stuff including some of the bands that I was listening to during that time.

But, you are exactly right. That naive', immature, angry Satanism is just another resentful form of "Christian" Satanism as King Diamond used to say. LoL

I never looked back. Went to my old pastor's wife's funeral some years back and hadn't seen those people (who I loved back then) for years and years. All those same faces from another life time ago. It was like stepping into a time warp, nothing about them had changed and they all said the same things, had that same sickly glazed, almost hypnotized look in their eyes, which I had not noticed when I was a part of it. It creeped me out to think It could be me still stuck there like that. I'm grateful for what happened. And this letter here from Roger seems to be at that point where he is questioning everything he believes in right before he's about to snap, soon to step into the purging stage, shredding his skin from years of mantras and indoctrination. It's a horrible and confusing and angry spot to be in. The swearing in the letter is not fake or put on, its part of cycle, like vomiting your soul out to cleanse it. This is a very interesting part of Christian Metal history. Lucky for those of you who got it if you're a collector of all things Christian rock and metal.

Thanks for sharing it.

So you think all Christians are like those “sickly” people you once knew? To the contrary, I have see many Christians in my life that look so full of joy and set free from the bondage of sin, fear and other pitfalls of the human condition. 

I do know that there are cults that claim to be Christians, but they put their trust in rituals and man made rules that make God just a distant person that is ready to punish at every mistake we make. I can’t see how a person with a personal relationship with Christ could ever be miserable.