Roger Dale Martin - "STATE OF VENGEANCE RISING ADDRESS"

* published on Vengeance Rising Once Dead Fan group on Facebook *

Right off the bat, let’s indulge In a little history.  Pastor Bob Beeman was the mastermind of Vengeance.   He appointed two metal heads to construct the very first Christian thrash band. Roger Dale Martin and Doug Thieme. 
      We hit the ground running and after several auditions secured the original lineup of me, Doug, Larry Farkas, Glen Mancaruso and Roger Martinez.  Our name was “Sacrifice” but another band had that name so we changed it to “Vengeance”. 
            After one demo tape and an article in White Throne magazine, everyone (Christians metal heads) knew our name. You either loved us or hated us. No in between. 
    We signed the record deal and recorded the ground breaking “Human Sacrifice” album. 
     After a few pressings, a band from Europe claimed they were the original Vengeance and we were imposters.   So we quickly added “Rising” and changed all future album covers and merchandise with the new logo “Vengeance Rising”.   
              Two USA tours and another album (Once Dead) was all she wrote.  Done deal.  
     No more from the original lineup. 
================================
   My relationship with Martinez ended thirty years ago. On a very good note I might add. 
Countless people have contacted me about the behavior and declarations of said Martinez. My reply is always the same, “Not interested.”
                  To be brutally honest, I could care less about his actions and his version of the band.  To this day, I have never watched the video of his version of VR all the way through. If I clicked on it by accident, I quickly moved on without a listen.        
         I have never listened to any songs off any album that he did under the Martinez VR. 
       Never watched any video of him renouncing the Christian faith (I have deleted every video and statement that people have sent me).          My choice to bypass the drama. 
            But alas, people filled me in and I shook it off like water on a duck’s back. 
    Fast forward to Autumn 2019.  For the first time in 28 years, I had a desire to communicate with Martinez.   So the search for the original lead vocalist  of Vengeance was on like Donkey Kong.      To no avail…
  I  constructed multi media “Martinez Wanted” ads.  I contacted every known source looking and looking.    I ended my search when a very reliable source said that he was dead.  Left the planet.    Uh, okay. 
      But, my final last attempt was a question to the “Vengeance Rising Once Dead Fan” page.    WHO WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE ORIGINAL MEMBERS MAKE ANOTHER ALBUM WITH ROGER MARTINEZ?
        There was a response from the members and shared posts but I received no call or text from Martinez. Even if he responded, my first order of business was to say hi and chat. To see where he is at physically and especially spiritually.      And go from there.  
            Since then, the original members (minus Martinez) have been eyeing my posts. And they have been monitoring fan interest too. But reluctantly.   
       Not too long ago Doug and Larry and I began a new ONCE DEAD project with Roger Sampson (drums-Precious Death) and Jim Settle (vocals-Hand of Fire).      We worked our butts off and flew in and out of LA several times to finish a 4 song EP called “Ghost Tribe”.  
     We decided not to go the record company route.  So we self promoted social media and got a good distributor, and even gave away a free t-shirt to boot.  To our surprise, there was very little interest in Ghost Tribe at all. And we invested a LOT of time and money. 
       To back that statement up, I must ask the members of the “vengeance rising ONCE DEAD fan” page:     How many of you bought Ghost Tribe?    Come on, please be honest, and raise your hand if you purchased.  Thank you 
            Recently the original members (minus Martinez) have been analyzing the possibility of a new Vengeance recording and looking very closely at this VRODF page for real time feedback. Your thoughts and opinions are very valuable to us.   Please comment and don’t be shy. 
__________________________
                    This next statement will come as a shock to you , so put your big girl panties on….                     
                 The best vocalist in Vengeance was never Martinez.                                           
                                 It is
                       LARRY FARKAS.  
Put that in your pipe and smoke it
__________________________My intent the past few weeks was one last effort to contact Martinez and hopefully
muster up enough interest to do another Vengeance album. Not to deceive but to get honest feedback.  
          Here is what we want to know~~Is it worth going through all the blood, sweat and tears to produce a new Vengeance album? Which would be the 4 original members with Larry as lead vocalist  (Slayer/Metallica style).      Only to be shunned by the fans because Martinez is not involved? 
         Do you actually want a new album or do you want to keep the memory of Vengeance sacred?    
                         Comment and let us know.
                         BE HONEST  
     Believe me …. we are listening.

I never liked Roger's vocals so him not singing is fine by me. And why have him on vocals if he's not a Christian?

I've never owned a VR album, because the music was a bit extreme for me.  But if I followed a band and they had a new vocalist, I would still buy their music (I've done that with Impellitteri, Signum Regis, Saint, Sacred Warrior etc.)

A few thoughts:

I think the reason the Ghost Tribe release didn't sell well was:  
1.  It wasn't released on CD (or was it?)  
2.  It was only an EP and EPs generally don't sell well at all these days or get as much attention
3. It was priced as much as a full-length album from other bands
4. A lot of people were turned off from the previous Once Dead CD (but not me, I thought it was underrated)

I don't think any bands are flying around to make music.  Everyone is expecting everyone to practice their chops on their own and record at home.  There's not enough money in music these days to justify those kinds of costs ... not even close.

@TOB: I agree with 2 of your points I just never liked the Once Dead record production and sound was horrible in my opinion. I dont think not being on CD killed it but the price point was way to high, but Im not a big CD guy anymore anyway.

My brother bought the Ghost tribe EP and it just wasn't very good, it would have made more sense under the Die Happy name.


I would love a new album with Larry on vox!

WOW!

So is Roger in fact dead??

I was in communication with him about a year or so ago.

The last time I corresponded with him was January 2020.

He got so belligerent and started trying to bully me so I had to cut him off.

Never heard of "Ghost Tribe"... kinda sounds like some Mormon doctrine

New Christian thrash? I'm in

I ain't on Facebook (the CMR is my only social media) so somebody forward my interest, please

"Ghost Tribe" wasn't discussed much at all around here, which is odd.

Temple of Blood wrote:"Ghost Tribe" wasn't discussed much at all around here, which is odd.

You answered why in your four points mentioned earlier.  Nobody discussed it because nobody bought it for exactly those reasons.

When did Farkas sing on a VR album?  

If they can pull it off I'm definitely in.

I’m all for a new Vengeance album! Especially if Larry’s vocals are like Metallica/Slayer!

I loved Roger’s energy and enthusiasm on vocals, but he was never that great as a vocalist. I think he was the weak link. Imagine Once Dead with Chuck Billy’s voice.

Actually, Ron Rinehart from Dark Angel would be perfect. He’s a Christian and the Dark Angel reunion seems to be shelved.

nope.

not larry.

not a good idea.

got this email from Jimmy Brown:

"I haven’t heard from Roger in a while… But he has been in touch with Adel from Frontline as of a few months ago… 

Those rumors of his death have been online for a while now… None the less, I hope he’s ok…

I’ll let you know if I hear anything different…

Jimmy"

So, my instinct tells me it's just a rumor.

To be honest, I wasn't a fan of the VR stuff.  I am not a thrash fan and wouldn't buy a new VR album.  If you went in the Die Happy style, especially that 2nd album, I'd be all over it.

But, if you do it, I pray it does well for you!

I was never a fan Vengeance Rising. The production was thin and Roger's vocals cracked me up sometimes. I'm always open to having more thrash in my collection. If this newer version of Vengeance gets off the ground with professional production I'm open to getting any music that is released.

Human Sacrifice is as professional as it gets man.

Human Sacrifice is a rough production.

TZ75 wrote:Human Sacrifice is a rough production.

Are you talking about the 30th anniversary original versuon?
https://www.amazon.com/Human-Sacrifice-Unreleased-Mix-Vengeance/dp/B07G259F7J

jaydeecrawson wrote:WOW!

So is Roger in fact dead??

Mr. Crawson,

Roger is NOT dead. I spoke with him on the phone yesterday. I did NOT mention the post by Roger Dale Martin. However, he did mention him using the name of Vengeance (Rising) for future music, etc.

Every few years the guys talk about using the name. If they could've they would've. The name belongs to Roger at this point which is why there are more albums without original members. All albums feature Roger Martinez and it is not VR without him.
That's like having a Deliverance album without Jimmy. It's just another band.

Maybe they should continue using "Once Dead" which is actually a GREAT name but ACTUALLY promote it instead of expecting everybody to learn by osmosis. The main hit songs were written by Glenn Rogers (White Throne, Human Sacrifice, Beheaded, and Burn) anyways. The first albums production is horrible which is my opinion on why it didn't do great. I've only heard one song from the EP and the production seems good. I plan on buying it soon. I kept waiting for it to come out on CD but it never did so I will break down and buy the download. I also think the allegations against the singer Jim Settle did not help.

Once Dead is a good good band

I don't know all of the dynamics of what happened in those relationships between the VR members, but if Roger Dale Martin is genuinely seeking out Roger Martinez to check up on him and (it appears) try to move forward, wouldn't it be a good idea for someone in contact with Martinez to let him know about it and see if he'll talk to Martin?

TZ75 wrote:Human Sacrifice is a rough production.

Galations6.7 wrote:The first albums production is horrible

that's a large part of it's charm IMO

Are we talking the First Mix edition or the initial released version?

I grew up on the initial release version but after buying the first mix edition I was blown away how the label ruined it. The rawness of the first mix is so perfect for the time period and style 9f music.

I haven't been able to listen to the label release since.

Has someone heard Larry F sing thrash?

Son of Nun wrote:I don't know all of the dynamics of what happened in those relationships between the VR members, but if Roger Dale Martin is genuinely seeking out Roger Martinez to check up on him and (it appears) try to move forward, wouldn't it be a good idea for someone in contact with Martinez to let him know about it and see if he'll talk to Martin?

Correct, you do not know ANY of the dynamics between any of the VR members. It is a delicate subject and honestly should be handled between them. I posted that I called Roger on RDM's original post. I know Larry and Glen, and have met Doug a few times but do not know RDM. If any of them are "genuinely seeking out Roger Martinez" I would be happy to discuss anything with them but I'm not telling Roger any of this. I don't want to be responsible for starting any of that drama. If you've read Mr. Crawson's post above you'd see that possibility is there. And trust me,.... I've had enough drama with Roger on my own.

So you see Son of Nun,.... what you said is easier said than done

crucifyd wrote:

TZ75 wrote:Human Sacrifice is a rough production.

Galations6.7 wrote:The first albums production is horrible

that's a large part of it's charm IMO

For clarification purposes,.... "The first albums production is horrible" was in reference to 'Visions of Hell."  I wish this would get re-released with a better mix

Human Sacrifice's production is great although I myself do prefer the "Unreleased First Mix"

bodachi wrote:

TZ75 wrote:Human Sacrifice is a rough production.

Are you talking about the 30th anniversary original versuon?
https://www.amazon.com/Human-Sacrifice-Unreleased-Mix-Vengeance/dp/B07G259F7J

The original cassette 1988. 

It’s not too bad per se… but compared to Metallica’s Kill Em All (that came out in 1983) it’s like a rough demo.

Galations6.7 wrote:

Son of Nun wrote:I don't know all of the dynamics of what happened in those relationships between the VR members, but if Roger Dale Martin is genuinely seeking out Roger Martinez to check up on him and (it appears) try to move forward, wouldn't it be a good idea for someone in contact with Martinez to let him know about it and see if he'll talk to Martin?

Correct, you do not know ANY of the dynamics between any of the VR members. It is a delicate subject and honestly should be handled between them. I posted that I called Roger on RDM's original post. I know Larry and Glen, and have met Doug a few times but do not know RDM. If any of them are "genuinely seeking out Roger Martinez" I would be happy to discuss anything with them but I'm not telling Roger any of this. I don't want to be responsible for starting any of that drama. If you've read Mr. Crawson's post above you'd see that possibility is there. And trust me,.... I've had enough drama with Roger on my own.

So you see Son of Nun,.... what you said is easier said than done

I think this response is overdramatic and, frankly, a little arrogant telling me what I do or do not know. I've heard plenty but I'd rather err on the humble side than get puffed up about who and what I know.  What's more important is what can be done as a Christian. If Martin says that he would honestly like to talk to Martinez but that he has tried literally everything he knows to do, I think it's silly for someone in contact with Martinez to not at least mention that Martin is seeking him out. It's pretty clear from what RDM said (wanting to check in on Roger and see how he's doing, interest in getting the original line-up back together, etc.) that he is open to reconciliation. It's not "starting drama" to convey the information that RDM wants to talk to Roger and may be interested in reconciling the past. It would actually be a great good to facilitate that. And if it doesn't work out, that's on those individuals and not on you.