Roger Dale Martin - "STATE OF VENGEANCE RISING ADDRESS"

Let Vengeance rest in peace altogether, all attachments, including titles such as once dead.  Find a rebirth with the remaining members without Roger and come out wit something new be it thrash, hard rock or whatever.  That's what I think anyway.  Good luck with future en devours.

Galations6.7 wrote:

crucifyd wrote:

TZ75 wrote:Human Sacrifice is a rough production.

Galations6.7 wrote:The first albums production is horrible

that's a large part of it's charm IMO

For clarification purposes,.... "The first albums production is horrible" was in reference to 'Visions of Hell."  I wish this would get re-released with a better mix

Human Sacrifice's production is great although I myself do prefer the "Unreleased First Mix"

ahhh...my bad, didn't read your post close enough, sorry for the confusion...

another vote for Unreleased Mix...

I'm a fan of all of Vengeance Rising's Christian stuff (need to hear the new) and would personally like it if Roger could do something with the old members. Sounds like it's still not an option though.

I always heard that the guys walked away from Vengeance and left the name (and debt) to Roger. Unfortunately, it’s a done deal… can’t go back. 

They need to stick with Once Dead or start a new project. I wish Roger had a miraculous change of heart, but it ain’t happening…

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this situation.

I pretty much agree with TZ75.

Those other guys QUIT and left Roger holding the debt.  It was the deal that both parties agreed to.

Now their new name "Once Dead" is not as lucrative.  So instead of continuing to try to build up their new brand they want to take the old brand back.

They got exactly what they wanted. They didn't consider the band name worth more than the debt at the time, but now they want the name back AND to not be burdened with the debt.

I'm highly suspicious of the motive behind this supposed olive branch to Roger since they have so much to gain from all of this.  They're just seeking a more lucrative brand than the one they have made for themselves  

Notice they are not saying they will pay Roger back for all the debt they left him with!

Another point here is that Roger was more than just a vocalist.  He wrote the music on their last 2 albums.  I (and some others) think that was the best music the band ever made.

I wish Once Dead all the success in the world, but they have no right whatsoever to the name Vengeance Rising.  I am not Roger's biggest fan but these ex-members do come across as vultures trying to take what is rightfully his.

If you want Roger to come back to the faith, one thing you can do is treat him with love and consideration.  Don't just use him for what he can give to you.

Temple of Blood wrote:I've been doing a lot of thinking about this situation.

I pretty much agree with TZ75.

Those other guys QUIT and left Roger holding the debt.  It was the deal that both parties agreed to.

Now their new name "Once Dead" is not as lucrative.  So instead of continuing to try to build up their new brand they want to take the old brand back.

They got exactly what they wanted.  They didn't consider the band name worth more than the debt at the time, but now they want the name back AND to not be burdened with the debt.

I'm highly suspicious of the motive behind this supposed olive branch to Roger since they have so much to gain from all of this.  They're just seeking a more lucrative brand than the one they have made for themselves  

Notice they are not saying they will pay Roger back for all the debt they left him with!

Another point here is that Roger was more than just a vocalist.  He wrote the music on their last 2 albums.  I (and some others) think that was the best music the band ever made.

I wish Once Dead all the success in the world, but they have no right whatsoever to the name Vengeance Rising.  I am not Roger's biggest fan but these ex-members do come across as vultures trying to take what is rightfully his.

If you want Roger to come back to the faith, one thing you can do is treat him with love and consideration.  Don't just use him for what he can give to you.

I disagree with a couple of things

In a heavens metal article from the time period it says that that they all were in agreement about walking away (while roger was out of the country or whatever producing an album. When Roger got back they told him they wanted to walk away and they would sell stuff to equal out the debt. Roger CHOSE to take on the debt and keep the name going. I know this is symatecs maybe but your wording makes it sound like they just left Roger high and Dry...

They only walked away because they wanted to go in a different direction musically and some were starting families etc.... We all would have been upset at the time if they would have made the Die Happy material under the Vengeance name right....

Once Dead is guilty of trying to be something they are not in my opinion. The guys that left wanted a different direction and they did that well but returning to thrash just wasnt in the cards in my opinion. The music on Once Dead was all over the place and sloppy.

Your right though they chose to part ways its Rogers name to use and only hope that the olive branch is honest and not something to stir up reunion talk etc for publicity.

  

article:
https://heavensmetalmagazine.com/index.php/2021/07/06/vengeance-rising-the-1991-break-up-interview/

I don't think we disagree.

Both sides accepted the terms.

Now one side wants the name back, but doesn't want to pay off the debt.

That's a raw deal.

That may be one reason I'm not into early VR ... thrash played by people who didn't really want to be in a thrash band just because that's "the scene" at the time. Lame.

From what I see from all of this, I think the interested band members should use the band name Once Dead and leave the  Vengeance or Vengeance Rising name alone. Under Once Dead release a few songs or an album with the same style as the did in the late 80s/early 90s. Once Dead was a band at one point and so was Die Happy with some members of Vengeance. I don't know everything about the band inner workings and dynamics other than what I read here and online. 

I had the Intense Records cassette of Human Sacrifice and even though it wasn't my cup of tea, I saw the potential. That was the only album I bought form them. If they ever reform again I would definitely check into it and consider getting the music if it's that old style grass roots thrash. I'm open to having more thrash in my collection. 

Question: At what point or time period did Roger Martinez become an athiest/non-believer?

I suggest they name their next album "Vengeance Rising"

I much prefer Roger’s vocals on every VR album over the guy used on Visions of Hell. Roger had charisma and character. The Once Dead guy was a generic LoG knockoff.  

Unless I hear Larry Farkas sing something in thrash, I’m skeptical.

Roger was a good entertainer. His character and stage presence was probably the best of any Christian thrash band. It’s a shame everything turned out the way it did…

If Gary Lenaire can have a change of heart, anything is possible…

TZ75 wrote:If Gary Lenaire can have a change of heart, anything is possible…

I think that this happened. He have posted a lot of versicles and faith things relationed recently...

The elephant in the room here is, why would the remaining members want to have an avowed atheist / someone who has in the past called himself a Satanist, front their band?  That makes me uncomfortable and I wonder what they are trying to accomplish here.   I believe TOB has raised some good questions / points about RDM etc. perhaps wanting to reform the band for financial reasons rather than ministry or to be any kind of Christian-themed band.

Or do they think that somehow they'll all make up and hug and he'll magically find faith again?   That seems naive at best.

The original Vengeance / Vengeance Rising was a MINISTRY band.  I interviewed the band after the demo came out and the guys all greatly stressed the ministry aspect of the band back then.  That was their (stated) main focus and they made that very clear.   It makes me wonder if that has gotten lost and if this is more of a cash-in due to the disappointing sales of Once Dead.

I am not saying I know anything, I am just wondering out loud.

I tried finding the post on the Facebook group so I could reply to Roger Dale Martin as he requested (since he probably won't see any of these replies).  Couldn't find it.

Because Human Sacrifice and Once Dead were formative for me spiritually and musically as a young teen, I will always buy anything those guys do. 

That said, I wasn't a fan of the Once Dead full-length because of the mix and the generic vocals.  The riffs and leads were good.  I never even heard of the Ghost Tribe EP until now. I just bought it.  Will listen when they send me the download code (very strange that it's only available from a t-shirt co...it's like they didn't actually want anybody to find out about it).

I'd be glad to hear Larry's vocals but until then Martinez will always be the sound of Vengeance Rising.  There is no way to put out more music with that name without him.  Sorry, but that's just how the musical world works.  A vocalist with a strong, unique personal style is ALWAYS the sound everyone identifies with a band.  I hope RDM gets in contact with him and they reconcile.

If it could roll back time and erase all the bad blood and ensure an amazing new VR album consistent with the first 2 releases, I'd personally pay for that huge debt that caused all the problem in the first place!  But sadly, the world isn't so simple.

Roger Dale Martin, if you're listening:  this is one fan who would love more music from you guys in any form.  I may or may not like it, but I'll still gladly welcome the continued exercise of your talents and mission to share Christ through heavy music.

I remember someone from Once Dead saying on this forum or Firestream ? back when it came out that Open Grave Records used the wrong mix with the Visions of Hell album release.

Guys,

Here is an email I received from Roger himself in Dec. 2019. I edited some personal things out of it.... I received several more until he got super rude and tried to bully me so we blocked him completely. I tried to tell him he used to be my hero, and I'm a Vengeance "SUPER FAN" etc. It was ME who unearthed that live audio concert from Denver included on the bonus disk of the "Released..." reissue, for instance.

But, he might have been drunk or something because he totally switched into Glenn Benton mode on me. He even threatened me. I dunno, that's just my theory. He even scared my wife half to death.....

By the way, some of you need to remember Danny Cardova has been posting on here, so have some respect! He was in the final lineup of Vengeance and if ANYBODY knows the situation it's probably him.

My word. Some of you guys (not all) are so legalistic, overly assertive, and self righteous it's just plain annoying and it's a huge put off. Some of you would make great Jehovah's Witnesses or Calvinists.

Here is the email.... read at your own risk:

 
…..I have recently turned 57 years of age and I'm living in paradise in Southern California taking the trips around the world the last one throughout Europe and I'm living a fantastic life.
 
I am a life member of American Atheists and if you haven't checked out the website you should it's really cool lots of good work being done globally.
 
I am actually going to be really seeing a bunch of new Tunes in 20/20 about all the people that I smurfin\' totally hate.
 
I don't know if you understand the situation but it was federal tax evasion that they were trying to coerce me into agreeing to and I told them to smurf off.
 
Literally Bob Beamon and his accountant Allen and Larry Farkas Glenn mancaruso Roger Martin and Doug they were all asked me to falsify tax returns to the federal government to hide the cash that they had spent.
 
I told them to smurf off and many other events happen where I was robbed hundreds of thousands of dollars and so yes I'm going to put my foot up their ass for every day of the rest of my life what should be another 20 or 30 years.
 
……we do have to hang out at some point actually I should put you on a couple of the songs in the new recordings this year so let me know what your circumstances are what you're planning for 2020 cuz we can do this over the internet you don't even have to come to Los Angeles.
 
I really appreciate motherfuckers like you thank you man I'll look forward to meeting you in person this year 2020.
 
Roger
424.xxx.xxxx.
At the beach living in Paradise.
 
As for the probate in the email I am working in that field now there are 200 people that die in Los Angeles every 24 hours a thousand four hundred every week and probate is a huge real estate market that I work in currently.
 
Funny Thing Once those pieces of smurf eventually die who robbed me they'll be paying me one way or the other it's kind of funny. 
 
…. perhaps we can do some things together like I said I'd like to include you on the recordings of the new songs I'm writing for 2020.
 
I'm absolutely swamped busy but once you email me back I'll eventually get to you it may not be immediately but hang in there….
 

Perhaps you can help me in the post of the videos cuz I haven't had time to really engage in Facebook and Twitter and YouTube and all of that but if you can help me do that that would be cool……..

It sounds like he was trying to recruit you as his new “sidekick” / online representative. 

If you remember, there used to be a guy that went by the moniker “Stigmatador”. He was the previous person that played that role. But he unfortunately passed away…

Whenever Roger makes claims against others, it’s usually exaggerated and full of spiteful hatred. Take it with a grain of salt.

Like his old VR song “You Will Be Hated”…

Except now, Roger is the hater.

Chances are… Roger was always a charlatan. He always talks about “the money” they stole. It’s like when the VR business no longer was viable, he showed everyone his true colors. 
He probably thought he could be a big fish in the Christian market rather than another dime a dozen secular musician. Steve Rowe had once told me the same thing about the motives of others in the scene. No names were given…

1 John 2:19

That sums it up…

I personally don't think he was a charlatan like Marjoe, Elmer Gantry, etc....

I think he was legit... he just apostacized.

TZ75, are you referring to that drummer he had a long time ago named Shannon or something like that? 

I remember the very first time I spoke to Roger M on the phone around 1999: 

he asked me for money.

jaydeecrawson wrote:I personally don't think he was a charlatan like Marjoe, Elmer Gantry, etc....

I think he was legit... he just apostacized.

TZ75, are you referring to that drummer he had a long time ago named Shannon or something like that? 

I remember the very first time I spoke to Roger M on the phone around 1999: 

he asked me for money.

What are you saying about the drummer Shannon? I know who he is. But I didn’t mention him at all… 

Stigmatador wasn’t a drummer. He was just a guy that ran the old VR website. He was the webmaster. His real name was Gabriel.

Black Rider wrote:I never liked Roger's vocals so him not singing is fine by me. And why have him on vocals if he's not a Christian?

Except for Warfare off the second album and a few off the first he wasn't my cup of coffee either. I love grunt and vomit in my metal but not gargled indecipherable razor blades in the throat singing.

Does anybody know why Scott Waters didn't work out with Once Dead?  I saw them live with him and he actually sounded similar enough to Martinez that it would totally work.

jaydeecrawson wrote:Guys,

Here is an email I received from Roger himself in Dec. 2019. I edited some personal things out of it.... I received several more until he got super rude and tried to bully me so we blocked him completely. I tried to tell him he used to be my hero, and I'm a Vengeance "SUPER FAN" etc. It was ME who unearthed that live audio concert from Denver included on the bonus disk of the "Released..." reissue, for instance.

But, he might have been drunk or something because he totally switched into Glenn Benton mode on me. He even threatened me. I dunno, that's just my theory. He even scared my wife half to death.....

By the way, some of you need to remember Danny Cardova has been posting on here, so have some respect! He was in the final lineup of Vengeance and if ANYBODY knows the situation it's probably him.

My word. Some of you guys (not all) are so legalistic, overly assertive, and self righteous it's just plain annoying and it's a huge put off. Some of you would make great Jehovah's Witnesses or Calvinists.

Here is the email.... read at your own risk:

 
…..I have recently turned 57 years of age and I'm living in paradise in Southern California taking the trips around the world the last one throughout Europe and I'm living a fantastic life.
 
I am a life member of American Atheists and if you haven't checked out the website you should it's really cool lots of good work being done globally.
 
I am actually going to be really seeing a bunch of new Tunes in 20/20 about all the people that I smurfin\' totally hate.
 
I don't know if you understand the situation but it was federal tax evasion that they were trying to coerce me into agreeing to and I told them to smurf off.
 
Literally Bob Beamon and his accountant Allen and Larry Farkas Glenn mancaruso Roger Martin and Doug they were all asked me to falsify tax returns to the federal government to hide the cash that they had spent.
 
I told them to smurf off and many other events happen where I was robbed hundreds of thousands of dollars and so yes I'm going to put my foot up their ass for every day of the rest of my life what should be another 20 or 30 years.
 
……we do have to hang out at some point actually I should put you on a couple of the songs in the new recordings this year so let me know what your circumstances are what you're planning for 2020 cuz we can do this over the internet you don't even have to come to Los Angeles.
 
I really appreciate motherfuckers like you thank you man I'll look forward to meeting you in person this year 2020.
 
Roger
424.xxx.xxxx.
At the beach living in Paradise.
 
As for the probate in the email I am working in that field now there are 200 people that die in Los Angeles every 24 hours a thousand four hundred every week and probate is a huge real estate market that I work in currently.
 
Funny Thing Once those pieces of smurf eventually die who robbed me they'll be paying me one way or the other it's kind of funny. 
 
…. perhaps we can do some things together like I said I'd like to include you on the recordings of the new songs I'm writing for 2020.
 
I'm absolutely swamped busy but once you email me back I'll eventually get to you it may not be immediately but hang in there….
 

Perhaps you can help me in the post of the videos cuz I haven't had time to really engage in Facebook and Twitter and YouTube and all of that but if you can help me do that that would be cool……..

So when one becomes an atheist you just forget to be a kind and descent person and just hate? He doesn't help his cause everything he opens his mouth.