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Roger Dale Martin - "STATE OF VENGEANCE RISING ADDRESS"

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Post by Staybrite Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:18 pm

strangerhoncho wrote:Does anybody know why Scott Waters didn't work out with Once Dead?  I saw them live with him and he actually sounded similar enough to Martinez that it would totally work.

I can't remember which one, but it was Larry or Doug who was concerned with Once Dead sounding too much like Ultimatum if they kept using Scott (I'm fairly certain Scott posted that somewhere).
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Post by TZ75 Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:34 pm

Roger travels “the world“. Yeah… Tijuana is outside the States. 

Lives in “paradise”. Probably downtown San Diego.  Laughing
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Post by strangerhoncho Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:04 am

Staybrite wrote:
strangerhoncho wrote:Does anybody know why Scott Waters didn't work out with Once Dead?  I saw them live with him and he actually sounded similar enough to Martinez that it would totally work.

I can't remember which one, but it was Larry or Doug who was concerned with Once Dead sounding too much like Ultimatum if they kept using Scott (I'm fairly certain Scott posted that somewhere).
I could see that concern if he sang in the style of Ultimatum (*cough* Steve Souza) but when I saw him with Once Dead live he really sounded like Martinez.  I think Scott proved that he could vary his vocal style on Ultimatum's Lex Metalis album.  Bummer that it didn't work out with Once Dead.  Despite his penchant for mimicry, Scott is a really great vocalist and the inability for Ultimatum to continue has really meant a waste of his talent.

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Post by TZ75 Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:07 am

Ultimatum is apparently on indefinite hiatus. So why not give Scott Waters a call? He has already proven he can do the job. Plus he’s a great person!
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Post by strangerhoncho Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:33 am

I listened to the Ghost Tribe EP and it's not bad.  There's nothing on there as good as anything they did in Vengeance or Die Happy, but there's potential.  The vocals are better than on Visions of Hell.

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Post by Sir Shred A Lot Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:54 am

This thread is bringing back a lot of memories. I was a Vengeance fan from the beginning and had a few loose connections to the band LONG ago. I remember before "Human Sacrifice" was released, Intense Records had a phone number you could call to hear a few snippets (it was a toll call, so they were presumably making money from that). I remember asking my parents for permission to do that - LOL. I pre-ordered that album (on cassette) and played it enough that the tape wore out.

Back in the day, I was connected to several people who ran The New Union, a Christian club/concert venue in Minneapolis, which booked virtually every Christian metal band that toured. Vengeance played there a few times, and I connected with them on two occasions, mainly through my friend who knew all of the band members from his time at Sanctuary Church in CA. This same friend recorded the Vengeance shows at The New Union (video/audio), and they're really good quality. I've seen them several times, and they'd definitely sell. Maybe some day he'll post them online. At some point, he asked someone in the band (or another person connected to them) about whether they wanted to try to release one of the videos, and there were talks about it, but things got too complicated because of the band split. It was in the course of those discussions that a lot of bizarre/disturbing claims were made about Roger M. - I'll leave specifics out, but it was enough to convince my friend never to be associated with any business dealings that had even a remote connection to Vengeance.

By my estimate, I think that I saw Vengeance live about 6 or 7 times - a few at The New Union and then a few others at Cornerstone Festival. They were always excellent - so many memories from them. At a couple of those I was able to meet/hang out with the band.

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Post by LexMetalis Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:06 pm

Sir Shred A Lot wrote:This thread is bringing back a lot of memories. I was a Vengeance fan from the beginning and had a few loose connections to the band LONG ago. I remember before "Human Sacrifice" was released, Intense Records had a phone number you could call to hear a few snippets (it was a toll call, so they were presumably making money from that). I remember asking my parents for permission to do that - LOL. I pre-ordered that album (on cassette) and played it enough that the tape wore out.

Back in the day, I was connected to several people who ran The New Union, a Christian club/concert venue in Minneapolis, which booked virtually every Christian metal band that toured. Vengeance played there a few times, and I connected with them on two occasions, mainly through my friend who knew all of the band members from his time at Sanctuary Church in CA. This same friend recorded the Vengeance shows at The New Union (video/audio), and they're really good quality. I've seen them several times, and they'd definitely sell. Maybe some day he'll post them online. At some point, he asked someone in the band (or another person connected to them) about whether they wanted to try to release one of the videos, and there were talks about it, but things got too complicated because of the band split. It was in the course of those discussions that a lot of bizarre/disturbing claims were made about Roger M. - I'll leave specifics out, but it was enough to convince my friend never to be associated with any business dealings that had even a remote connection to Vengeance.

By my estimate, I think that I saw Vengeance live about 6 or 7 times - a few at The New Union and then a few others at Cornerstone Festival. They were always excellent - so many memories from them. At a couple of those I was able to meet/hang out with the band.

Try contact if Bill from Roxx Records, maybe him can help in release this material...
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Post by strangerhoncho Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:13 pm

There is a live audio bootleg CDR of Vengeance at the New Union that I had years ago.  Bought off of someone online.  I can't recall if it was good or even if I listened to it.  I probably have it somewhere in a box still.

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Post by jaydeecrawson Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:29 pm

that new union boot you're referring to came from me. it was an audience recording and I think it had those two unreleased songs on it "The Contract" and "The Wailing."

It sounds as if there is another boot in another form? That's news to me.

I've left no stone unturned in my search for VR live material and never heard of a soundboard or pro shot video from the New Union.

The dude should cough it up or make it available online or ROXX if it truly exists.

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Post by Sir Shred A Lot Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:48 pm

My friend's recording was with a hand-held video camera (1990 technology), so it wasn't anything professional. He could be the source of the bootleg mentioned - I just don't know. Maybe he used the audio from his video recording and sold it. He'd try to sneak his video camera or handheld audio recorder to every show we attended, and we went to a LOT of Christian metal concerts together. He had audio or video for over 100 concerts.

I haven't had much contact with him since he moved out of state a decade ago. We stayed in touch regularly on Facebook, but I left that a few years ago and haven't communicated with him in a couple years.

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Post by jaydeecrawson Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:12 pm

The source I had a was a cassette.

VERY rough audience quality, but super rare none the less.

sounds like it's the same dude I got the master cassette from I made the CD out of with pro tools

LONG time ago.

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Post by LexMetalis Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:10 am

I wish that existed a better source to C-stone '88 concert than the one that appeared on the Intense Milleniun rerelease of HS. Amazing energy at stage, but man... really really poor sound
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Post by LexMetalis Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:29 pm

* New post from RDM *

What up big dawgs.  Thanks for all the feedback concerning a new Vengeance album.  I posted on 3 different Facebook pages. We got a total of 350 comments (I quit counting after 3 days). 
     Most were positive comments and were looking forward to a new album.   A few had reservations that it would not be good enough to match HS and OD albums. (Quite a few of you). And there was about 10% of people saying “NO”, don’t you dare destroy the legacy of Vengeance with a new album.  Leave it in the past where it should stay. 
     And maybe 5% said, “NO MARTINEZ, NO VENGEANCE. Stop what you are doing”
*after pondering each and every comment, here is the conclusion of the matter: 
THE “NO’S WERE MUCH MORE CONVINCING AND HEARTFELT. .    
So lets leave it as is.          Unadulterated and integrity intact.    Thanks for all your support    
                                            RDM
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Post by Constantine Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:58 pm

That's a relief actually. Let the legacy stand as it is.
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Post by Guest Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:55 pm

Legacy? Really?
The world is coming down to pieces and some guys are still worried about legacy?
Through the last few years I stopped worrying about such a thing. 

if you are doing anything in your life, do it for the moment, say whatever you feel it's needed before it is all done.

That said, if 85% is pro a new album, They should definetely go ahead. If they feel like it is a NO GO, that's probably because they wanted a bigger response from the fans (in quantity).

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Post by Galations6.7 Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:46 pm

Thiago-Brazil wrote:Legacy? Really?
The world is coming down to pieces and some guys are still worried about legacy?
Through the last few years I stopped worrying about such a thing. 

if you are doing anything in your life, do it for the moment, say whatever you feel it's needed before it is all done.

That said, if 85% is pro a new album, They should definetely go ahead. If they feel like it is a NO GO, that's probably because they wanted a bigger response from the fans (in quantity).


It is a NO GO for one simple reason. The same reason they can't use the name live (IE; Return with a Vengeance), the same reason people seem to forget about, OVER AND OVER. THE NAME DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM!!! It belongs to Roger Martinez. If they could've used it they would've done it by now. Nobody wants to get sued.

The band (Once Dead) and music ARE good. They just need to promote


Last edited by Galations6.7 on Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammatical error)
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Post by TZ75 Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:12 am

They should just start over with a new band. Again…

Name the band: Ascending Wrath
Title the album: Sky Splitter
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Post by strangerhoncho Mon Aug 09, 2021 11:34 am

If they wanted to use the name, all they need to do is the classic Vengeance Rising AD, or Vengeance AD.  The same as all the other bands who split and want their fans to find their new work, or who have a name that's contested by another band.

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Post by TZ75 Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:21 pm

“Vengeance Is Mine” (add Romans 12:19) so there wouldn’t be any confusion about the meaning. 

I seriously like this one!


Last edited by TZ75 on Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by jaydeecrawson Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:49 pm

I've wished and still wish with all my heart Roger M would do something with the name. But, he hasn't. Not a d*** thing.

It's a shame.

He should make merch, a new album..... something. But, I get the feeling he's impossible to work with.

After a few days or so of emailing him a few years back, he started bullying me and threatening me so I blocked him completely.

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Post by Dustofyears Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:13 am

jaydeecrawson wrote:I've wished and still wish with all my heart Roger M would do something with the name. But, he hasn't. Not a d*** thing.

It's a shame.

He should make merch, a new album..... something. But, I get the feeling he's impossible to work with.

After a few days or so of emailing him a few years back, he started bullying me and threatening me so I blocked him completely.
yeah be interesting to hear what that would sound like.  Would it be like destruction comes or would he go all black metal or what...  guess we will never find out.  I received a  face book message from him long ago about some sort of antichrist script thingy he was writing. I didn't bother reading it all, it was quite detailed and my eyes glazed over.

Hope he is happy now though.

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Post by TZ75 Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:49 am

I only had one interaction with Roger back in 1998. I must have messaged him through his website and I asked if he was still a fan of thrash… he said he was a fan of Flotsam and Jetsam and some other old school bands that I can’t remember. 

I’m not sure he mentioned anything else or anti-God stuff.
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Post by Temple of Blood Fri May 13, 2022 12:02 pm

RDM is selling new Vengeance Rising merch on ChristianBandShirts.com

Roger Dale Martin – ChristianBandShirts.com

Does he still own the band?  I think I'm starting to understand where some of RM's criticisms come from.
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Post by TZ75 Fri May 13, 2022 12:42 pm

Temple of Blood wrote:RDM is selling new Vengeance Rising merch on ChristianBandShirts.com

Roger Dale Martin – ChristianBandShirts.com

Does he still own the band?  I think I'm starting to understand where some of RM's criticisms come from.

They had to use the name Once Dead when they tried to reunite. Unless Martinez has abandoned the copyright… sometimes there are legal loopholes when a business is dormant.
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Post by TZ75 Fri May 13, 2022 12:50 pm

It’s kinda weird that Roger Dale Martin has personal merch with his initials. It’s not like he’s been doing anything to warrant that. Is he trying to advertise himself as a “bass hero”? Like Cliff Burton or John Entwistle. 

Seems kinda weird… maybe if he had his own line of bass guitars called RDM. I just don’t see why I would want to wear his initials on a shirt.
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Post by Temple of Blood Fri May 13, 2022 1:47 pm

I noticed that no other ex-member of any other band does this.

I don't see Marty Fridman or Dave Ellefson selling their own version of Megadeth t-shirts.
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Post by TZ75 Fri May 13, 2022 9:50 pm

Temple of Blood wrote:I noticed that no other ex-member of any other band does this.

I don't see Marty Fridman or Dave Ellefson selling their own version of Megadeth t-shirts.

Marty Friedman and Chris Poland haven’t… but Ellefson has used the Megadeth stylized font for the logo of his namesake solo band. And maybe certain types of his coffee are named after Megadeth songs. 


As far as RDM goes… it appears to be an attempt to make money off a defunct band. And he wasn’t even a prominent songwriter. I’m not sure he even wrote anything. Several months ago he tried to ask if there was any interest in a new Vengeance or “Once Dead” album. I assume he has nothing going on and Vengeance is his bread and butter. Makes you wonder what the real motivation is to revive the band? Money from merch seems to be the goal. Non-authentic Christian music is pointless.
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Post by TZ75 Fri May 13, 2022 10:13 pm

It’s funny… I don’t even think RDM is a metal guy in real life. I think he likes country and blues rock. Die Happy would make more sense.  Razz
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Post by Dustofyears Sat May 14, 2022 2:11 am

Roger had a very unique voice that sounded like nothing else in the thrash or death metal genre or any genre for that matter. It was his voice on top of the raw bone speed up deep purple thrash and bluesy riffs and solos that made Vengeance rising what they were. No one can replicate what roger had on those albums nor the magic of Vengeance rising captured in that time capsule all those years ago. Hate to be a downer but that's my reckons.

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Post by TZ75 Sat May 14, 2022 9:57 am

Dustofyears wrote:Roger had a very unique voice that sounded like nothing else in the thrash or death metal genre or any genre for that matter. It was his voice on top of the raw bone speed up deep purple thrash and bluesy riffs and solos that made Vengeance rising what they were. No one can replicate what roger had on those albums nor the magic of Vengeance rising captured in that time capsule all those years ago. Hate to be a downer but that's my reckons.


You are correct. Roger Martinez had a very unique voice. I think I’m one of the few that actually liked his Destruction Comes vocals the best.
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Post by Raegoul Sat May 14, 2022 4:13 pm

TZ75 wrote:
Dustofyears wrote:Roger had a very unique voice that sounded like nothing else in the thrash or death metal genre or any genre for that matter. It was his voice on top of the raw bone speed up deep purple thrash and bluesy riffs and solos that made Vengeance rising what they were. No one can replicate what roger had on those albums nor the magic of Vengeance rising captured in that time capsule all those years ago. Hate to be a downer but that's my reckons.


You are correct. Roger Martinez had a very unique voice. I think I’m one of the few that actually liked his Destruction Comes vocals the best.
I am a Destruction Comes stan too. Underrated album.
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Post by TZ75 Sat May 14, 2022 8:03 pm

Raegoul wrote:
TZ75 wrote:
Dustofyears wrote:Roger had a very unique voice that sounded like nothing else in the thrash or death metal genre or any genre for that matter. It was his voice on top of the raw bone speed up deep purple thrash and bluesy riffs and solos that made Vengeance rising what they were. No one can replicate what roger had on those albums nor the magic of Vengeance rising captured in that time capsule all those years ago. Hate to be a downer but that's my reckons.


You are correct. Roger Martinez had a very unique voice. I think I’m one of the few that actually liked his Destruction Comes vocals the best.
I am a Destruction Comes stan too. Underrated album.


I admit the rhythm guitar is a bit loosely played, but the riffs are still memorable in my opinion. Roger’s vocals are not completely growled, more in the vein of crossover thrash. And Chris Hyde’s drumming is excellent!
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Post by Raegoul Sun May 15, 2022 2:21 am

TZ75 wrote:
Raegoul wrote:
TZ75 wrote:
Dustofyears wrote:Roger had a very unique voice that sounded like nothing else in the thrash or death metal genre or any genre for that matter. It was his voice on top of the raw bone speed up deep purple thrash and bluesy riffs and solos that made Vengeance rising what they were. No one can replicate what roger had on those albums nor the magic of Vengeance rising captured in that time capsule all those years ago. Hate to be a downer but that's my reckons.


You are correct. Roger Martinez had a very unique voice. I think I’m one of the few that actually liked his Destruction Comes vocals the best.
I am a Destruction Comes stan too. Underrated album.


I admit the rhythm guitar is a bit loosely played, but the riffs are still memorable in my opinion. Roger’s vocals are not completely growled, more in the vein of crossover thrash. And Chris Hyde’s drumming is excellent!
I would describe the vocals as Mike Muir on steroids. Many people find the album monotone but I find it coherent. 

On topic, this RDM logo is ugly and ruins the merch for me. I copped the Destruction Comes shirt instead. Cool
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Post by TZ75 Sun May 15, 2022 4:05 am

Raegoul wrote:
TZ75 wrote:
Raegoul wrote:
TZ75 wrote:
Dustofyears wrote:Roger had a very unique voice that sounded like nothing else in the thrash or death metal genre or any genre for that matter. It was his voice on top of the raw bone speed up deep purple thrash and bluesy riffs and solos that made Vengeance rising what they were. No one can replicate what roger had on those albums nor the magic of Vengeance rising captured in that time capsule all those years ago. Hate to be a downer but that's my reckons.


You are correct. Roger Martinez had a very unique voice. I think I’m one of the few that actually liked his Destruction Comes vocals the best.
I am a Destruction Comes stan too. Underrated album.


I admit the rhythm guitar is a bit loosely played, but the riffs are still memorable in my opinion. Roger’s vocals are not completely growled, more in the vein of crossover thrash. And Chris Hyde’s drumming is excellent!
I would describe the vocals as Mike Muir on steroids. Many people find the album monotone but I find it coherent. 

On topic, this RDM logo is ugly and ruins the merch for me. I copped the Destruction Comes shirt instead. Cool

Yeah, I can see the Muir comparison (early ST). 

The RDM logo is indeed an eyesore! Lol
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Post by Dustofyears Mon May 16, 2022 8:31 am

TZ75 wrote:
Dustofyears wrote:Roger had a very unique voice that sounded like nothing else in the thrash or death metal genre or any genre for that matter. It was his voice on top of the raw bone speed up deep purple thrash and bluesy riffs and solos that made Vengeance rising what they were. No one can replicate what roger had on those albums nor the magic of Vengeance rising captured in that time capsule all those years ago. Hate to be a downer but that's my reckons.


You are correct. Roger Martinez had a very unique voice. I think I’m one of the few that actually liked his Destruction Comes vocals the best.
It's my fav too. Destruction comes is a masterpiece by mistake and by urgency- and you can feel that in it. I love it for all the reasons people hate it- the thin guitar sound, the dry production, the barking vocals, the repetition and long winded leads to fill it out. it's unrepentant and unapologetic for existing. And those reasons people hate it is what makes it a masterpiece in my book. Also it paints a picture in my head of some guy lost of his mind, alone in a hot wind desert, barking mad and surrounded by bones of the dead that wandered alone to the same place before him. As you can see, I could ramble on and on about that album, but I'll spare you, just this once!

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Post by Pethead Mon May 16, 2022 11:00 am

His vocals on DC and RutE are significantly better to my ears than those on the first two, even though the music on the first two is excellent.
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Post by TZ75 Mon May 16, 2022 1:23 pm

Dustofyears wrote:
TZ75 wrote:
Dustofyears wrote:Roger had a very unique voice that sounded like nothing else in the thrash or death metal genre or any genre for that matter. It was his voice on top of the raw bone speed up deep purple thrash and bluesy riffs and solos that made Vengeance rising what they were. No one can replicate what roger had on those albums nor the magic of Vengeance rising captured in that time capsule all those years ago. Hate to be a downer but that's my reckons.


You are correct. Roger Martinez had a very unique voice. I think I’m one of the few that actually liked his Destruction Comes vocals the best.
It's my fav too. Destruction comes is a masterpiece by mistake and by urgency- and you can feel that in it. I love it for all the reasons people hate it- the thin guitar sound, the dry production, the barking vocals, the repetition and long winded leads to fill it out. it's unrepentant and unapologetic for existing. And those reasons people hate it is what makes it a masterpiece in my book. Also it paints a picture in my head of some guy lost of his mind, alone in a hot wind desert, barking mad and surrounded by bones of the dead that wandered alone to the same place before him. As you can see, I could ramble on and on about that album, but I'll spare you, just this once!

The crazy vocals and the drums are my favorite features on the album. But I’m one that also thinks the “less is more” approach is better sometimes. The riffs are simple and often repeat on a loop like Iommi does on Zero the Hero. I love it!
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