ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:07 am

Black Rider wrote:But if somebody CAN'T pay and is making the copy just for his own it has no effect on the artist. Without the illegal download / copy not a single cent more would go to the artist. So I don't see why this should be wrong from a moral perspective.


What? It affects the artist because his intellectual property is now being taken when it should've been paid for. You could argue this way for stealing physical property from a store or other people, if you don't buy they wouldn't get money so just take the item. You know, Romans and Titus and 1 Peter all tell us to obey the governing authorities.
Replace "music" with "food."  Is it okay to steal food because you can't afford to pay? Medicine? Household cleaning products? 

Which part of "Thou shalt not steal" don't you understand?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:09 am

Tobi Elektrik wrote:
lhversaw wrote:
Tobi Elektrik wrote:
lhversaw wrote:
pathogenics_cloned_twin83 wrote:Does this 'scumbag' label extend to downloading stuff stuff thats out of print and selling for major bucks on Ebay/Amazon?
Even if it is out of print and sells for major bucks on ebay it is still illegal to download them and therefore wrong. People who try to justify their actions by stating that it is out of print and too expensive or I don't have enough money so that is why they do it is just that an EXCUSE TO JUSTIFY THEIR WRONGS.

So you say it is wrong just because a law says it is wrong?
No I say it is wrong because the bible says stealing is wrong and Illegal Downloading is stealing therefore it is Wrong.

The law does not define illegal downloads as stealing.  
I guess all those music pirates should have been let go after a good, sound warning, right? Not buying your flimsy argument, sir.  Stealing is stealing is stealing, period.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Tobi Elektrik on Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:26 am

grandeped made a good point: To perceive illegal downloads as the major problem is misleading. Declining sales for many artists and labels have way more reasons than just illegal downloads.

@ Neal Morse Code: Do you actually try to understand my point?  Wink I'm not saying that illegal downloading is "right" in general and music piracy should be taken lightly.
I just try to point out that under some circumstances an illegal download does NOT have the same effect like stealing therefore shouldn't be judged as stealing from a moral perspective.

Most people here argue strictly from a legal perspective which doesn't really help to see the full picture.
The real problem is that some people don't give a damn about artists. Others who also break the law still pay a lot of money for CDs, vinyl and concert tickets. To denounce all those people equally as thieves is far from reality.

And: No, you can't replace music by food. Music itself isn't a physical product. That's why it is so hard to find an analogy that fits. BTW: It's okay to steal food if you can't effort to pay and you don't take it from somebody who needs it to survive. That's still ILLEGAL but definitely NOT wrong IMO. At least that's a good example of how LEGAL options (=eating sand and starving to death)* aren't always the RIGHT options. But maybe you disagree on that too. Which I would perceive as weird. Smile


*for the record / for Candlemass: 1. I didn't came up with this food analogy - Neal Morse Code invented it. 2. I'm not implying that you starve if you can't download all albums for free. Mad Laughing
avatar
Tobi Elektrik
Seasoned Guardian
Seasoned Guardian

Posts : 457
Join date : 2012-02-02
Location : Germany

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:59 am

Tobi Elektrik wrote:Most people here argue strictly from a legal perspective which doesn't really help to see the full picture.


Which is exactly why Christians are advised to work things out among themselves instead of using the judicial system against each other.

...But some folks don't care about that. They'll sic the judicial system on you anyway.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Blake on Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:15 am

I legally purchase all my music, even the music I dont like and use just for MBR...and as a result I am a very poor man.

I do believe it to be stealing, but nearly all my co-workers and friends have the argument "oh well its not stealing, all we are stealing is bits and 1's and 0's".

Its stealing intellectual property in my opinion. The problem is that everyone has the mentality "its not going to hurt if 1 person downloads this", only problem is that everyone else has that mentality too. This is one reason why physical CDs are dying out.

Bands spend money pressing physical CDs to sell then everyone downloads it and leaves them to foot the cost. Exactly the reason why my next release will be digital only.
avatar
Blake
Holy Unblack Knight
Holy Unblack Knight

Posts : 1144
Join date : 2014-01-13
Age : 33
Location : Owasso, Oklahoma

http://reanimatedradio.com

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Thiago-Brazil on Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:17 am

Sorry, but "right infringement" is just a soft name for stealing. And it is definetely agains't the human law, as well as God law, undoubtedly.

And there are a few people here messing things. If you apply for a volunteer job, you already know that you are not going to be paid for it...But all of these noble people probably have a job in which they need tobe paid. What if they don't get paid in the job we intend to get paid? What if people would take advantage of your work?

It doesn't matter whether you love what you do for a living or not, we all have a few obligations such as rent, installments, market and deserve to be paid for what we do.
avatar
Thiago-Brazil
Holy Unblack Knight
Holy Unblack Knight

Posts : 1370
Join date : 2012-03-12
Age : 30
Location : São Paulo - Brazil

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:32 am

Thiago-Brazil wrote:Sorry, but "right infringement" is just a soft name for stealing. And it is definetely agains't the human law, as well as God law, undoubtedly.

And there are a few people here messing things. If you apply for a volunteer job, you already know that you are not going to be paid for it...But all of these noble people probably have a job in which they need tobe paid. What if they don't get paid in the job we intend to get paid? What if people would take advantage of your work?

It doesn't matter whether you love what you do for a living or not, we all have a few obligations such as rent, installments, market and deserve to be paid for what we do.

I stated earlier that several customers have left me hanging on a few jobs....so yes, I do know what it's like to work and not get paid for it.

Imagine making an album and not getting paid one single red cent for it.

Yeah....Be glad you got paid SOMETHING.

And quit complaining to people who really DO know what it's like to get paid ZERO for their work.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Thiago-Brazil on Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:52 am

Mortal wrote:
Thiago-Brazil wrote:Sorry, but "right infringement" is just a soft name for stealing. And it is definetely agains't the human law, as well as God law, undoubtedly.

And there are a few people here messing things. If you apply for a volunteer job, you already know that you are not going to be paid for it...But all of these noble people probably have a job in which they need tobe paid. What if they don't get paid in the job we intend to get paid? What if people would take advantage of your work?

It doesn't matter whether you love what you do for a living or not, we all have a few obligations such as rent, installments, market and deserve to be paid for what we do.

I stated earlier that several customers have left me hanging on a few jobs....so yes, I do know what it's like to work and not get paid for it.

Imagine making an album and not getting paid one single red cent for it.

Yeah....Be glad you got paid SOMETHING.

And quit complaining to people who really DO know what it's like to get paid ZERO for their work.
i don't really get what do you stand for, but here comes my answer (sorry if I misunderstood something):

Only because you are not getting paid doesn't mean that other people shouldn't get paid as well.
If you know how bad it is, then you shouldn't wish the same for anyone.
avatar
Thiago-Brazil
Holy Unblack Knight
Holy Unblack Knight

Posts : 1370
Join date : 2012-03-12
Age : 30
Location : São Paulo - Brazil

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:13 am

Thiago-Brazil wrote:
Mortal wrote:
Thiago-Brazil wrote:Sorry, but "right infringement" is just a soft name for stealing. And it is definetely agains't the human law, as well as God law, undoubtedly.

And there are a few people here messing things. If you apply for a volunteer job, you already know that you are not going to be paid for it...But all of these noble people probably have a job in which they need tobe paid. What if they don't get paid in the job we intend to get paid? What if people would take advantage of your work?

It doesn't matter whether you love what you do for a living or not, we all have a few obligations such as rent, installments, market and deserve to be paid for what we do.

I stated earlier that several customers have left me hanging on a few jobs....so yes, I do know what it's like to work and not get paid for it.

Imagine making an album and not getting paid one single red cent for it.

Yeah....Be glad you got paid SOMETHING.

And quit complaining to people who really DO know what it's like to get paid ZERO for their work.
i don't really get what do you stand for, but here comes my answer (sorry if I misunderstood something):

Only because you are not getting paid doesn't mean that other people shouldn't get paid as well.
If you know how bad it is, then you shouldn't wish the same for anyone.

I'm not wishing bad on anyone.

The only thing I am wishing here is that folks would stop complaining about the things they don't have, and be thankful for the things they do have.

I hear more complaints than I do gratitude from some folks.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:14 am

I don't know, I am not going to slam an artist for getting peowed about his brand new release being pirated before the ink on the cover art even dries...

You can make any excuse you want for downloading, and make any argument you want about how much illegal downloading actually hurts an artist, but the bottom line is that it must feel like a violation for something you worked your butt off to make to be given away without your permission.

People copyright photos and make the photo so you can't save it / download it at full resolution to avoid their work being shared without their permission. No one complains.

But when a musician wants to protect his music people act like the musician is just whining.

A true double standard in today's society.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:18 am

I guess this sums it up..

Too many people act like they are "entitled" to the music

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:22 am

If an artist knows that his work has the potential to be stolen, then he should figure out a way to reduce or eliminate that potential.

If the artist knows the potential is there, and does nothing about it, and then later complains because people took advantage of him...

...then it's kind of hard for me to sympathize with them over their loss.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Temple of Blood on Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:03 pm

In 2015, is there any reason to "pirate" music any more?

Everything is on YouTube (or just about everything).

If you don't want your content there then you have to police it regularly yourself and report folks who violate it.  I've done this more than once in the past with my band's music.

Temple of Blood
Metal Warrior
Metal Warrior

Posts : 784
Join date : 2012-02-01

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:58 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:I am not going to slam an artist for getting peowed about his brand new release being pirated before the ink on the cover art even dries...

They can get "peowed" all they want. That's fine.

But they should make sure their frustrations are aimed in the right direction.

If there is a door left open for a thief to enter through, why then would you get mad only at the thief??

Wouldn't it be wise to focus your attention towards the person who left the door open?

Eliminate the one/thing that keeps leaving the door open, and the thieves will stop entering.


Last edited by Mortal on Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Thiago-Brazil on Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:58 pm

Mortal wrote:
Thiago-Brazil wrote:
Mortal wrote:
Thiago-Brazil wrote:Sorry, but "right infringement" is just a soft name for stealing. And it is definetely agains't the human law, as well as God law, undoubtedly.

And there are a few people here messing things. If you apply for a volunteer job, you already know that you are not going to be paid for it...But all of these noble people probably have a job in which they need tobe paid. What if they don't get paid in the job we intend to get paid? What if people would take advantage of your work?

It doesn't matter whether you love what you do for a living or not, we all have a few obligations such as rent, installments, market and deserve to be paid for what we do.

I stated earlier that several customers have left me hanging on a few jobs....so yes, I do know what it's like to work and not get paid for it.

Imagine making an album and not getting paid one single red cent for it.

Yeah....Be glad you got paid SOMETHING.

And quit complaining to people who really DO know what it's like to get paid ZERO for their work.
i don't really get what do you stand for, but here comes my answer (sorry if I misunderstood something):

Only because you are not getting paid doesn't mean that other people shouldn't get paid as well.
If you know how bad it is, then you shouldn't wish the same for anyone.

I'm not wishing bad on anyone.

The only thing I am wishing here is that folks would stop complaining about the things they don't have, and be thankful for the things they do have.

I hear more complaints than I do gratitude from some folks.
You are changing the subject of the discussion. It is about piracy and whether you are against it or not. This is not about how grateful people are.

Have you consider that George might not have been complaining, but encouraging us to purchase the album instead of downloading it?
avatar
Thiago-Brazil
Holy Unblack Knight
Holy Unblack Knight

Posts : 1370
Join date : 2012-03-12
Age : 30
Location : São Paulo - Brazil

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:08 pm

Thiago-Brazil wrote:You are changing the subject of the discussion. It is about piracy and whether you are against it or not. This is not about how grateful people are.

Well...anytime a person starts talking about "not getting paid", and "working for free"....when you know it isn't true...

...a person's gratitude does come into question.

Some of the folks who talk about "not getting paid" and "working for free" would lead some to believe that they have not received one single penny for their efforts.

I think it's ridiculous.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by wintersdawn on Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:29 pm

Mortal wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:I am not going to slam an artist for getting peowed about his brand new release being pirated before the ink on the cover art even dries...

They can get "peowed" all they want. That's fine.

But they should make sure their frustrations are aimed in the right direction.

If there is a door left open for a thief to enter through, why then would you get mad only at the thief??

Wouldn't it be wise to focus your attention towards the person who left the door open?

Eliminate the one/thing that keeps leaving the door open, and the thieves will stop entering.

As an artist myself, this is the problem, how does an artist prevent the illegal uploading/sharing of their material or to use your example 'close the door'?

wintersdawn
Seasoned Guardian
Seasoned Guardian

Posts : 102
Join date : 2012-02-01

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Thiago-Brazil on Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:34 pm

Mortal wrote:
Thiago-Brazil wrote:You are changing the subject of the discussion. It is about piracy and whether you are against it or not. This is not about how grateful people are.

Well...anytime a person starts talking about "not getting paid", and "working for free"....when you know it isn't true...

...a person's gratitude does come into question.

Some of the folks who talk about "not getting paid" and "working for free" would lead some to believe that they have not received one single penny for their efforts.

I think it's ridiculous.
Then, let me paraphrase it: "not getting properly paid." Even though the band or artist in question doesn't get paid at all for the customer that download their album.

I mean, if I download the album, then Worldview won't get paid for what I am getting.
After all, what do you think about downloading in the internet? Do you think it is fair to simply download for free someone's work without permission? How do you see this question as a christian? Or as a citizen?
avatar
Thiago-Brazil
Holy Unblack Knight
Holy Unblack Knight

Posts : 1370
Join date : 2012-03-12
Age : 30
Location : São Paulo - Brazil

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Thiago-Brazil on Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:38 pm

wintersdawn wrote:
Mortal wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:I am not going to slam an artist for getting peowed about his brand new release being pirated before the ink on the cover art even dries...

They can get "peowed" all they want. That's fine.

But they should make sure their frustrations are aimed in the right direction.

If there is a door left open for a thief to enter through, why then would you get mad only at the thief??

Wouldn't it be wise to focus your attention towards the person who left the door open?

Eliminate the one/thing that keeps leaving the door open, and the thieves will stop entering.

As an artist myself, this is the problem, how does an artist prevent the illegal uploading/sharing of their material or to use your example 'close the door'?
The only way I can think of and it is kind of fair, is through crowdfunding projects. Then, you can assure that you will have a minimum investment return. Anything else you can sell after that is profit. But then, you shouldn't care about other people downloading it for free, even though it is still wrong.
avatar
Thiago-Brazil
Holy Unblack Knight
Holy Unblack Knight

Posts : 1370
Join date : 2012-03-12
Age : 30
Location : São Paulo - Brazil

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:43 pm

Thiago-Brazil wrote:
Mortal wrote:
Thiago-Brazil wrote:You are changing the subject of the discussion. It is about piracy and whether you are against it or not. This is not about how grateful people are.

Well...anytime a person starts talking about "not getting paid", and "working for free"....when you know it isn't true...

...a person's gratitude does come into question.

Some of the folks who talk about "not getting paid" and "working for free" would lead some to believe that they have not received one single penny for their efforts.

I think it's ridiculous.
Then, let me paraphrase it: "not getting properly paid." Even though the band or artist in question doesn't get paid at all for the customer that download their album.

I mean, if I download the album, then Worldview won't get paid for what I am getting.
After all, what do you think about downloading in the internet? Do you think it is fair to simply download for free someone's work without permission? How do you see this question as a christian? Or as a citizen?

How do I see this issue as a Christian?

Well...first of all...I think a person's intent has alot to do with it.

If you are not willing to look at a person's intent, then how are you handling this situation as a Christian?

There are many different reason why a person may want to download.

....and theft is not always the reason.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:45 pm

wintersdawn wrote:
Mortal wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:I am not going to slam an artist for getting peowed about his brand new release being pirated before the ink on the cover art even dries...

They can get "peowed" all they want. That's fine.

But they should make sure their frustrations are aimed in the right direction.

If there is a door left open for a thief to enter through, why then would you get mad only at the thief??

Wouldn't it be wise to focus your attention towards the person who left the door open?

Eliminate the one/thing that keeps leaving the door open, and the thieves will stop entering.

As an artist myself, this is the problem, how does an artist prevent the illegal uploading/sharing of their material or to use your example 'close the door'?



DRM
Other forms of encryption to prevent copying
Lawsuits
Shutting down sites
Educating people on the problem

That's just a small sample of methods that they have tried to use to combat it

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by wintersdawn on Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:46 pm

Thiago-Brazil wrote:
wintersdawn wrote:
Mortal wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:I am not going to slam an artist for getting peowed about his brand new release being pirated before the ink on the cover art even dries...

They can get "peowed" all they want. That's fine.

But they should make sure their frustrations are aimed in the right direction.

If there is a door left open for a thief to enter through, why then would you get mad only at the thief??

Wouldn't it be wise to focus your attention towards the person who left the door open?

Eliminate the one/thing that keeps leaving the door open, and the thieves will stop entering.

As an artist myself, this is the problem, how does an artist prevent the illegal uploading/sharing of their material or to use your example 'close the door'?
The only way I can think of and it is kind of fair, is through crowdfunding projects. Then, you can assure that you will have a minimum investment return. Anything else you can sell after that is profit. But then, you shouldn't care about other people downloading it for free, even though it is still wrong.

Thanks Thiago that's an interesting idea, so once an artist has covered their costs they don't need to care about it.

wintersdawn
Seasoned Guardian
Seasoned Guardian

Posts : 102
Join date : 2012-02-01

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by wintersdawn on Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:48 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:
wintersdawn wrote:
Mortal wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:I am not going to slam an artist for getting peowed about his brand new release being pirated before the ink on the cover art even dries...

They can get "peowed" all they want. That's fine.

But they should make sure their frustrations are aimed in the right direction.

If there is a door left open for a thief to enter through, why then would you get mad only at the thief??

Wouldn't it be wise to focus your attention towards the person who left the door open?

Eliminate the one/thing that keeps leaving the door open, and the thieves will stop entering.

As an artist myself, this is the problem, how does an artist prevent the illegal uploading/sharing of their material or to use your example 'close the door'?



DRM
Other forms of encryption to prevent copying
Lawsuits
Shutting down sites
Educating people on the problem

That's just a small sample of methods that they have tried to use to combat it

Thanks for the ideas, much appreciated.

wintersdawn
Seasoned Guardian
Seasoned Guardian

Posts : 102
Join date : 2012-02-01

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Thiago-Brazil on Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:49 pm

Mortal wrote:
Thiago-Brazil wrote:
Mortal wrote:
Thiago-Brazil wrote:You are changing the subject of the discussion. It is about piracy and whether you are against it or not. This is not about how grateful people are.

Well...anytime a person starts talking about "not getting paid", and "working for free"....when you know it isn't true...

...a person's gratitude does come into question.

Some of the folks who talk about "not getting paid" and "working for free" would lead some to believe that they have not received one single penny for their efforts.

I think it's ridiculous.
Then, let me paraphrase it: "not getting properly paid." Even though the band or artist in question doesn't get paid at all for the customer that download their album.

I mean, if I download the album, then Worldview won't get paid for what I am getting.
After all, what do you think about downloading in the internet? Do you think it is fair to simply download for free someone's work without permission? How do you see this question as a christian? Or as a citizen?

How do I see this issue as a Christian?

Well...first of all...I think a person's intent has alot to do with it.

If you are not willing to look at a person's intent, then how are you handling this situation as a Christian?

There are many different reason why a person may want to download.

....and theft is not always the reason.
I can only see a reason why: Taking advantage to another person effort. What is basically my definition of theft.

What another reason can you mention?
avatar
Thiago-Brazil
Holy Unblack Knight
Holy Unblack Knight

Posts : 1370
Join date : 2012-03-12
Age : 30
Location : São Paulo - Brazil

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by WildWorld on Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:52 pm

Mortal wrote:
Fundy wrote:When it comes to movies that are on TV.  If I record them I watch them.  If I like them enough then I go and buy them.


Some folks actually prefer to record shows/movies from TV rather than buying the DVD versions.

When recording from TV, you get the commercial breaks too...and a few years down the road those TV recordings will be more nostalgic than the commercial free DVD version.
Ah, but with the DVD you get audio commentary, deleted scenes, alternate endings, alternate language tracks, music videos, and other neat stuff. As for the commercials, i use youtube to watch old commercials.

WildWorld
Holy Unblack Knight
Holy Unblack Knight

Posts : 1369
Join date : 2012-02-04

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:54 pm

Thiago-Brazil wrote:
Mortal wrote:
Thiago-Brazil wrote:
Mortal wrote:
Thiago-Brazil wrote:You are changing the subject of the discussion. It is about piracy and whether you are against it or not. This is not about how grateful people are.

Well...anytime a person starts talking about "not getting paid", and "working for free"....when you know it isn't true...

...a person's gratitude does come into question.

Some of the folks who talk about "not getting paid" and "working for free" would lead some to believe that they have not received one single penny for their efforts.

I think it's ridiculous.
Then, let me paraphrase it: "not getting properly paid." Even though the band or artist in question doesn't get paid at all for the customer that download their album.

I mean, if I download the album, then Worldview won't get paid for what I am getting.
After all, what do you think about downloading in the internet? Do you think it is fair to simply download for free someone's work without permission? How do you see this question as a christian? Or as a citizen?

How do I see this issue as a Christian?

Well...first of all...I think a person's intent has alot to do with it.

If you are not willing to look at a person's intent, then how are you handling this situation as a Christian?

There are many different reason why a person may want to download.

....and theft is not always the reason.
I can only see a reason why: Taking advantage to another person effort. What is basically my definition of theft.

What another reason can you mention?

So everyone who downloads something has the intent to cheat someone else?

Ok...I think my conversation with you may be over.

If that's what you think, there's really no need for me to list any reasons.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Thiago-Brazil on Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:00 pm

Or you can't find any other reasons... Rolling Eyes
avatar
Thiago-Brazil
Holy Unblack Knight
Holy Unblack Knight

Posts : 1370
Join date : 2012-03-12
Age : 30
Location : São Paulo - Brazil

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:04 pm

Thiago-Brazil wrote:Or you can't find any other reasons... Rolling Eyes

No...there are other reasons.

Trying to tag an intent on someone, when it's not actually their intent, is just ridiculous IMO.

It makes one out to be an accuser.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by wintersdawn on Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:05 pm

People have different opinions on this issue and maybe their positions will not be changed by anything that someone says in this thread.  It might be best to leave it up to each person to decide what they think/believe is right.

wintersdawn
Seasoned Guardian
Seasoned Guardian

Posts : 102
Join date : 2012-02-01

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:12 pm

wintersdawn wrote:People have different opinions on this issue and maybe their positions will not be changed by anything that someone says in this thread.  It might be best to leave it up to each person to decide what they think/believe is right.

You're right.

I'm not for theft at all, but I do feel some folks are being way too legalistic on this issue.

I really don't think the laws concerning this are as cut and dried as some folks would like for us to believe.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by srguenther on Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:45 pm

When U2 released Songs of Innocence for free to iTunes users I got it in my account, but I'm an android person so I had no idea how to use icloud. I ended up downloading it from a torrent site. So I stole an album I already got for free.....

srguenther
Seasoned Guardian
Seasoned Guardian

Posts : 139
Join date : 2012-03-30

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:18 pm

srguenther wrote:When U2 released Songs of Innocence for free to iTunes users I got it in my account, but I'm an android person so I had no idea how to use icloud.  I ended up downloading it from a torrent site.  So I stole an album I already got for free.....

Shame on you for making U2 work for free.

Just Joking

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by grandeped on Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:23 pm

Oh, and people do complain like crazy when they can't get images from image sites. I see it all the time. Any time you block any people from getting any content they complain.

Then again, people complained like crazy that they got a free U2 album. So the reality is, people just complain when they don't get things their way.

We complain about people stealing music, saying they violate the Bible, when we are all owning or renting houses that were sold by property ownership standards that clearly violate Biblical principles. But I guess we all want to overlook that since society says it is now okay Smile

grandeped
Seasoned Guardian
Seasoned Guardian

Posts : 119
Join date : 2012-02-01

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Wildcat on Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:19 pm

I agree that it's going a bit too far to suggest that anyone who pirates music isn't a real Christian. As much as I wish it wasn't so, Christians are still capable of sinning.

With that being said, I really don't see how you can justify it from a Christian ethical standpoint. Even if it isn't necessarily a physical product in this digital age, music is still a product for sale. I don't see how you can call taking it for yourself without paying anything other than stealing.

Since some people are arguing rather vehemently that things aren't so simple, could someone give an concrete example of a situation where you feel pirating is morally acceptable? Because you want it, but can't afford it isn't a legitimate reason in my opinion.
avatar
Wildcat
Seasoned Guardian
Seasoned Guardian

Posts : 136
Join date : 2012-02-04

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Thiago-Brazil on Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:47 pm

Wintersdawn, I agree, but I can't understand how can someone agree with piracy? All the opinions from people who thinks downloading music illegally is not crime, are showing their point of views with bias. The law is clear and tries to protect the artist, but the law can't face that huge army from people who help each other to download it in the internet.

Don't you have US$20,00 to support your favorite band? Then don't buy it!

How can you use intention as an argument? Is there anyone so naive that thinks that is allowed to download for free something protected by rights wothout the owner permission? We all know it is ilegal.
avatar
Thiago-Brazil
Holy Unblack Knight
Holy Unblack Knight

Posts : 1370
Join date : 2012-03-12
Age : 30
Location : São Paulo - Brazil

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Thiago-Brazil on Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:00 pm

Wildcat, if your post is directed to me, you totally misanderstood me. I can't say someone is a real christian, half christian, not christian or anything else. This judgement doesn't belong to me. All I can say is that Jesus is the only one who is holy and we are all sinners trying to be like him.

What I said is that is expected from a christian to stand against any kind of piracy.

And I basically agree with anything else you said.

avatar
Thiago-Brazil
Holy Unblack Knight
Holy Unblack Knight

Posts : 1370
Join date : 2012-03-12
Age : 30
Location : São Paulo - Brazil

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:05 pm

Thiago-Brazil wrote:Since some people are arguing rather vehemently that things aren't so simple, could someone give an concrete example of a situation where you feel pirating is morally acceptable?


Do you feel it's morally acceptable for people to film concerts and show them to people who never purchased a concert ticket?

I've seen lots of live "pirated" concert footage of various bands. Even Christian metal bands, and no one says a peep about that.

Wouldn't those folks be stealing and pirating concert tickets?

If you don't feel this is morally acceptable, then where is your outrage about this?

And where is your outrage about people eavesdropping on outdoor concerts without paying for admission?

I might take one more seriously if they were consistent in their arguments.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Wildcat on Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:27 pm

@ Thiago-Brazil- The first part of my post was directed at the title of this thread, not anything you had said. I agree with your stance on this issue. 

@Mortal- You're the one who stated that piracy might not be morally wrong or equivalent to theft depending on the person's intent. If you really feel that way, why can't you simply give an example of what kind of intent would make it a morally acceptable practice rather than dodging the question by throwing out a whole laundry list of other issues that are only tangentially related at best?
avatar
Wildcat
Seasoned Guardian
Seasoned Guardian

Posts : 136
Join date : 2012-02-04

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:53 pm

Wildcat wrote:@ Thiago-Brazil- The first part of my post was directed at the title of this thread, not anything you had said. I agree with your stance on this issue. 

@Mortal- You're the one who stated that piracy might not be morally wrong or equivalent to theft depending on the person's intent. If you really feel that way, why can't you simply give an example of what kind of intent would make it a morally acceptable practice rather than dodging the question by throwing out a whole laundry list of other issues that are only tangentially related at best?

Why don't you read what it is I'm saying instead of accusing me of dodging the question?

I've already given several examples of situations that could also be considered piracy, but are generally accepted by folks.

And if one thinks these issues are "only tangentially related at best", then they're not very consistent in their argument, and I'm not really all that convinced that they feel it is wrong like they say they do.

It seems like the only reason some folks think it is wrong is because there is a law against it.

And then they want to question me on what is "morally acceptable"??

Go figure  Rolling Eyes

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by KaramKaram on Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:00 pm

So, for you, downloading an album that you haven't paid for it is Ok? And if it is Ok for you can you tell why?

_________________
avatar
KaramKaram
Deadpool
Deadpool

Posts : 1926
Join date : 2012-02-02
Age : 37
Location : Somewhere in the Middle Land

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:10 pm

How about we start another thread titled "Is Breaking The Law Morally Wrong?"...

Then we can discuss people jaywalking, and running red lights, etc...and we can question their intent and morality there.

Sound good?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:12 pm

KaramKaram wrote:So, for you, downloading an album that you haven't paid for it is Ok? And if it is Ok for you can you tell why?

There are so many factors that could come in to play with that scenerio.....so I won't get into it.

But take note of this...I do not encourage anyone to break the law.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Candlemass on Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:48 pm

George, you don't know what it's like!!!! What a Face

avatar
Candlemass
Holy Unblack Knight
Holy Unblack Knight

Posts : 3939
Join date : 2012-02-02
Age : 54
Location : Cleveland, Oh

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by ludey7 on Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:53 pm

I'm confused how anyone can defend this as anything but stealing.  A product is for sale... If you obtain it by any other means but purchasing it - how is that not stealing?  Forget how you feel about it morally - by definition it's a product for sale someone decided they didn't need to pay for.  The reasons for that still do not change the action.  Intentions can be as pure as the driven snow - you still took something you didn't pay for...right?

ludey7
Seasoned Guardian
Seasoned Guardian

Posts : 264
Join date : 2012-02-01

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:08 am

ludey7 wrote:Forget how you feel about it morally

If you are going to ask one to forget about it morally, that person may, in return, ask you to stop asserting that it is equal to common theft.

Are you ready to do that?

The link I just posted above may help you on that.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by ludey7 on Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:18 am

I read the article and I think it agreed with my point actually.  Which was to point out that it's stealing.  Doesn't matter how you feel about it morally.  By definition it's stealing.  One can liken it to harmless or no one actually lost anything so it's not as bad as some other crime.  All might be true... Doesn't make it not stealing.  How one feels about it morally - whether they think it's no big deal or they think it is a huge deal - that is irrelevant to defining the act...and the act is its theft. How major or minor the theft is up to you I guess?  But it's still theft right?  I don't think anyone here can possibly argue that it's not theft in some form or fashion.  If you think it's not stealing a product that is commercially for sale then I don't think we are talking about the same thing.  How you feel about it doesn't matter to me.  If you feel it's wrong or if you don't - you still participated in obtaining a product for sale without paying for it.  Not sure how it's not cut and dry.

ludey7
Seasoned Guardian
Seasoned Guardian

Posts : 264
Join date : 2012-02-01

Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Guest on Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:40 am

I think you may have missed the point of the article.

The article made two crucial points:

1) It is unfair to equate this with common theft (stealing)

2) It is unfair for a downloader to have to suffer the same penalty as one who actually DID commit common theft.

It's not as cut and dried as you think.

Equating this to stealing turns it into a criminal case.

Do you really think a situation like this is a criminal case?

That is what you imply when you equate it with stealing.

You say to forget about it morally, then you equate it with stealing. How can one forget about it morally when the assertion of stealing is still there?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: ONLY SCUMBAGS PIRATE AND STEAL MUSIC. Certainly no true Christian would pirate music from the internet. Let me get an AMEN if you agree with me. If you don't "amen" then we know what you are made of.

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum