Trump vs Carson on religion ?

I like to think of that guy as a mashup of a christian wrestler and Kevin James.

messiaen77 wrote:No, some idiot put up a video on Youtube of him staging a nutty over the fact that Starbucks cups are just plain red cups with no snowflakes or trees or ornaments on it--an indicator that they are taking another step in the "war on Christmas" by not even acknowledging it.  After all, they already refuse to say "Merry Christmas", so when he went to order his coffee and the barista asked for his name, he told them it was Merry Christmas so they would write it on the cup.  Now in the video he is encouraging other Christians to do the same thing and post the pictures with a hashtag.  I'd post a link to the video, but honestly, I don't want to encourage more views for him.  Anyway, the media picked up on it and, well, you know the media--instant controversy.

My personal opinion is that Trump is still trying to play up to the evangelicals.

This...is truly... much ado about nothing.

sentient 6 wrote:

messiaen77 wrote:No, some idiot put up a video on Youtube of him staging a nutty over the fact that Starbucks cups are just plain red cups with no snowflakes or trees or ornaments on it--an indicator that they are taking another step in the "war on Christmas" by not even acknowledging it.  After all, they already refuse to say "Merry Christmas", so when he went to order his coffee and the barista asked for his name, he told them it was Merry Christmas so they would write it on the cup.  Now in the video he is encouraging other Christians to do the same thing and post the pictures with a hashtag.  I'd post a link to the video, but honestly, I don't want to encourage more views for him.  Anyway, the media picked up on it and, well, you know the media--instant controversy.

My personal opinion is that Trump is still trying to play up to the evangelicals.

This...is truly... much ado about nothing.

Of course, that's why I played the media card.  The media excels at making erupting volcanoes out of molehills.  It doesn't matter whether it is the dreaded "liberal media" or Fox News or whatever whacko-fringe website you want to pull up.  Sensationalism is the name of the game.  I've got my own thoughts and theories about why this is, but they are a little more tinfoil hat society than I like to admit.

On a political note, I find it to be very telling that every report I read on the most recent debate, which focused on policy issues, said something to the effect of Trump was less a presence than the other two debates, which were more personality-driven.  I will not deny that he has cultivated a sort of charisma, but that's about all he has to offer.

I don't think there is any other candidate that will be nominated for the Republican party. Maybe I'm wrong. But I think Trump will get the nomination.

I'm not so sure.  There's a history of the early front runners getting blown away when it actually comes time to start voting.  As now, Hillary was the prohibitive favorite going into the 2008 primaries.  I still think the luster is going to fade on Trump and possibly even Carson and we'll be looking at Rubio or Cruz as the nominee.  If Trump does win the nomination, I will predict Hillary by a landslide.  I also see a lot of the Republicans in Congress up for election running as far away from him as possible.  If anyone in this race is more polarizing that Hillary, it is definitely Trump.  The thing is, I think she is savvy enough to be able to get opponents to work with her on some things; Trump not so much.

messiaen77 wrote:I'm not so sure.  There's a history of the early front runners getting blown away when it actually comes time to start voting.  As now, Hillary was the prohibitive favorite going into the 2008 primaries.  I still think the luster is going to fade on Trump and possibly even Carson and we'll be looking at Rubio or Cruz as the nominee.  If Trump does win the nomination, I will predict Hillary by a landslide.  I also see a lot of the Republicans in Congress up for election running as far away from him as possible.  If anyone in this race is more polarizing that Hillary, it is definitely Trump.  The thing is, I think she is savvy enough to be able to get opponents to work with her on some things; Trump not so much.

Yep. This is in line with my thoughts that the dems best hope is to have Trump nominated. He'll be an easy take down for either Clinton or Sanders. What's their big push? The disparity in wealth and their solution is more taxes against the rich. They'll call him out as being part of the 1% class. Also, I don't think he's as quick on his feet for in depth debates as his likely opponents. He fast on the quick simple retorts, but not much after that.

The dems best option is to leave Trump alone enough for now and let him take down the more substantial players like Carson and Cruz. Then take him out when they have no threat of real competition.

Interesting turn of events being reported.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/13/trump-rips-ben-carson-backstory-in-marathon-iowa-speech/

d@v!d wrote:Interesting turn of events being reported.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/13/trump-rips-ben-carson-backstory-in-marathon-iowa-speech/

I tried to listen to Trump in the video, and quickly got bored and lost interest. He seemed to take too long to get to the point, and kept repeating himself and making weird gestures. I don't think he has much substance.

I think Erick Erickson did a good job of explaining the two.
http://www.erickontheradio.com/2015/11/i-dont-think-donald-trump-understands-the-saving-power-of-jesus-christ/

deathisgain wrote:

d@v!d wrote:Interesting turn of events being reported.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/13/trump-rips-ben-carson-backstory-in-marathon-iowa-speech/

I tried to listen to Trump in the video, and quickly got bored and lost interest. He seemed to take too long to get to the point, and kept repeating himself and making weird gestures. I don't think he has much substance.

Yeah, me too. I got to about the 5 min mark. I listened to him a couple of months ago and was likewise dismayed. That's why I'm cynical about things. He's so vacuous and yet he's so popular.

I think Erick Erickson did a good job of explaining the two.
http://www.erickontheradio.com/2015/11/i-dont-think-donald-trump-understands-the-saving-power-of-jesus-christ/

Nice observations.

Trump and Carson will both fade once primary voting actually starts....my guess is Rubio or Cruz.

The election is still a year away and everyone is already sick of the campaigning. It seems like they started 5 minutes after the 2014 midterms....Bush should be disqualified simply because 2 of his family have been President recently...Clinton should be disqualified because it will basically be the 3rd term of Bill Clinton, especially if he spends much time at the White House.

bassdude wrote:Trump and Carson will both fade once primary voting actually starts....my guess is Rubio or Cruz.

The election is still a year away and everyone is already sick of the campaigning. It seems like they started 5 minutes after the 2014 midterms....Bush should be disqualified simply because 2 of his family have been President recently...Clinton should be disqualified because it will basically be the 3rd term of Bill Clinton, especially if he spends much time at the White House.

I don't see either of them fading away, but I can see people leaving their support of Trump as he continues to shows himself to be little more than shallow and vitriolic.

I read an article recently that really puts Trump into perspective in regards to religion.
http://www.erickontheradio.com/2015/11/i-dont-think-donald-trump-understands-the-saving-power-of-jesus-christ/
In the article is the 9 minute excerpt of his rant on Carson.

The thing that has become more clear to me about him is the why of his methodology. Why comes off so shallow in substance and merely just touts his 'success' when he talks. It is part of his religious beliefs. He's a disciple of Norman Vincent Peale. Peale is one of the grandfathers of the modern power of positive thinking movement. Trumps continues declarations of his success is his 'mantra' so to speak. Positive thinking uses the power of confessing ones success as a means to obtain it.

This is also part of why he goes down so hard on Carson, why Carson is an enigma to him. Carson speaks about his past in a negative light talking about anger. Trump sees that as a negative confession. That brings consternation to Trumps belief system to see someone succeed while making a negative confession.

Trump and Hillary 2016 ...

Hillary will win for sure!

Norman Vincent Peale is a great teacher! One of my favorites! Also, one of Joel Osteen's mentors in the faith!

No - that is not why I am not voting for Trump. The fact that he's into Norman Vincent Peale actually makes me want to support him! That is how he's gotten his success. These principles work! And they are Biblical! Proverbs 23:7 says "as a man thinketh in his heart - so is he!".

It's been in the Bible the whole time and Jesus even taught it!

No ... I commend Trump for his good spiritual tastes.

It's his policies and politics I disagree with. Then again - I'm a Democrat.

Trump would certainly make a better president than Bush did!

RavenWolf wrote:Norman Vincent Peale is a great teacher! One of my favorites! Also, one of Joel Osteen's mentors in the faith!

No - that is not why I am not voting for Trump. The fact that he's into Norman Vincent Peale actually makes me want to support him! That is how he's gotten his success. These principles work! And they are Biblical! Proverbs 23:7 says "as a man thinketh in his heart - so is he!".

It's been in the Bible the whole time and Jesus even taught it!

No ... I commend Trump for his good spiritual tastes.

It's his policies and politics I disagree with. Then again - I'm a Democrat.

I know this place [perhaps all too] well and can recognize a spark that'll set this whole place ablaze [again] when I see it.  So before this thread spirals into insanity of heated debate... let's remember that for the time being, the "no theological debates" rule still applies.  I've been pretty lenient lately because I'd like to do away with it, but recent events have shown otherwise.  So let's please keep this topic about Trump and Carson and not the prosperity gospel, free grace movement, universalism, Roger Martinez, etc...

*whistling*

RavenWolf wrote:Trump would certainly make a better president than Bush did!

Bush was not the greatest, but I highly doubt that. Trump has only hot air that he blowing up the public's collective King James "donkey". Beyond that, he hasn't laid out anything with meat.

Yes, but he's proven that he can handle a vast real estate empire.

He that is faithful with little, will be given little.

He that is faithful with much - will be given much.

It's a universal principle.

RavenWolf wrote:Yes, but he's proven that he can handle a vast real estate empire.

He that is faithful with little, will be given little.

He that is faithful with much - will be given much.

It's a universal principle.

He's also failed miserably as well. I don't doubt his business abilities, and agree that he has a lot of experience in that.

Without going into a long Bible study, you are taking those verses (Luke 16:10, Matt 25:23) out of context from the overall teaching of Jesus. Ironically, the rest of Luke 16:10 says: "But if you are dishonest in little things, you won’t be honest with greater responsibilities." I think Trump has been dishonest with little things.

deathisgain wrote:

RavenWolf wrote:Yes, but he's proven that he can handle a vast real estate empire.

He that is faithful with little, will be given little.

He that is faithful with much - will be given much.

It's a universal principle.

He's also failed miserably as well. I don't doubt his business abilities, and agree that he has a lot of experience in that.

Without going into a long Bible study, you are taking those verses (Luke 16:10, Matt 25:23) out of context from the overall teaching of Jesus. Ironically, the rest of Luke 16:10 says: "But if you are dishonest in little things, you won’t be honest with greater responsibilities." I think Trump has been dishonest with little things.

Hmm.. I can't but wonder if the passage in Luke doesn't sum up Trump's business dealings.

The master commended the dishonest manager for his shrewdness. For the sons of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own generation than the sons of light.

I always wondered why the master would commend (basically pat him on the back) the dishonest servant ... for his shrewdness. Is shrewdness more important to God than honesty? I'm not arguing ... just wondering. LOL. Anyone ever wondered that about that passage?

DIG, I wasn't actually taking any verses out of context. I was simply quoting from memory some sermon I heard years ago. I was basically trying to make a point. But I guess it's hard to see that when everything is doctrinal with you.  

To be honest guys ... I believe how I believe. But I don't get too caught up in 'doctrine' ... of any sort. I'm more into philosophy to be honest with you. Religion bores me. I love Jesus. Nuff said.

RavenWolf wrote:I always wondered why the master would commend (basically pat him on the back) the dishonest servant ... for his shrewdness. Is shrewdness more important to God than honesty? I'm not arguing ... just wondering. LOL. Anyone ever wondered that about that passage?

Yeah, I wondered about it when I read it the first few times.

I always took it to mean to use one's possessions wisely to further the kingdom of God. To be shrewd in a good way.

RavenWolf wrote:I always wondered why the master would commend (basically pat him on the back) the dishonest servant ... for his shrewdness. Is shrewdness more important to God than honesty? I'm not arguing ... just wondering. LOL. Anyone ever wondered that about that passage?

DIG, I wasn't actually taking any verses out of context. I was simply quoting from memory some sermon I heard years ago. I was basically trying to make a point. But I guess it's hard to see that when everything is doctrinal with you.  

To be honest guys ... I believe how I believe. But I don't get too caught up in 'doctrine' ... of any sort. I'm more into philosophy to be honest with you. Religion bores me. I love Jesus. Nuff said.

I'm sorry, but this has nothing to do with a doctrine, except if you consider taking things in context a doctrine. You can't ... never mind, you heard it in a sermon once, so it must be true.

d@v!d wrote:

RavenWolf wrote:I always wondered why the master would commend (basically pat him on the back) the dishonest servant ... for his shrewdness. Is shrewdness more important to God than honesty? I'm not arguing ... just wondering. LOL. Anyone ever wondered that about that passage?

Yeah, I wondered about it when I read it the first few times.

I always took it to mean to use one's possessions wisely to further the kingdom of God. To be shrewd in a good way.

Yeah, that's how I've always taken it too. But it still always struck me as funny. But I guess a lot of the Bible is like that. Lots of symbolism and parables there.