Trump Wins

Looks like Trump wins...or is that President Trump..  
Cnn says.."conservatism loses".. but can trump take it all the way?

My question has to do with what Sanders' supporters do:  support Clinton, support Trump, stay home.  Those who are die-hard Dems will likely give their support to Clinton.  Those who are in it for the revolution may stay home or they may back the other "outsider" candidate in Trump.  If that happens, Trump wins because there is no way Cruz's supporters are gonna back Clinton.  I guess this election will be decided by which group is loudest--#anyonebuttrump or #neverhillary.

Bernie supporters will not back anyone but Bernie.  Expect a LARGE write in amount for him in the general election, and a Republocan president as a result, but I wonder how many Cru supporters feel the same way as the Bernie folks will?  That could muddle the picture good, should Trump not offer Cruz the VP slot.....
Trump?

I think the most troubling thing about all of these candidates is their sheer arrogance.  Yes, you have to have a certain level of arrogance to think that you are THE best person to hold the most influential and powerful position in the world (yes, I believe that is still the case.  Only the Pope comes close.), but just look what happened over the past week.  Cruz and Kasich came up with a last-ditch strategy to derail the inevitability of Trump getting the nomination--Kasich didn't campaign in Indiana, Cruz wasn't going to campaign in a couple of western states.  Almost immediately, however, Kasich made it clear that he still wanted people to vote for him in Indiana and that he was still the best candidate for the job even though he was almost as distantly third place as Cruz was second.  So even though Kasich has only a slightly better chance of winning the nomination than I do, he was unwilling to set aside his ego to try to deny Trump delegates.  In fairness, I imagined Cruz would have done the same thing in the states he wasn't campaigning in.

On the other side, the math is not in Bernie's favor.  Hillary is 290 ahead without the superdelegates that really can't be counted on until vote time since they tend to end up voting for whoever is the pledged delegate leader.  Without them, she is roughly 600 away from the nomination with just over 1100 delegates left.  Since all Dem primaries split delegates, Bernie's going to have to basically blow Hillary out the rest of the way to overtake her or really even to make a significant dent in her lead, and that's just not likely to happen.  Yet he is going to ride this until the end.  Say what you will about Hillary, when it was clear she was not going to win the nomination, she (grudgingly but definitely) supported Obama as the nominee to unite the party going into the convention.  Sanders isn't actually a Democrat, so I don't think he sees party unity as a goal, so I really don't think he is really going to urge his supporters to unite against Trump and the Republicans.

These campaigners trying to twist the election procedure reminds me of the Pharisees twisting the law with their traditions. The election is supposed to be about letting the people decide the country's leader, but this proves that to many politicians it isn't about what the people want but about their agendas and what they want.

Some states don't allow write ins..(My state of Oklahoma is a good example)...so on those ballots you either vote for who is on the ballot or you don't vote at all.. I see that the RNC chairman is saying now the party needs to unite and back Trump...No matter what happens the race will be really close in November...plus I kinda wonder if Trump loses if he will file lawsuits over it (Think Bush in Florida)...Then again if Trump wins I expect some Ferguson style rioting to take place in some places..
The  other thing is there are a huge amount of House and Senate races as well...something not getting any coverage at all..so its begs the question 'Who will own the house and the senate"...not to mention  are any of the ideas being put forth by any of the candidates even possible..With Hillary I see more of the same (carrying on the Obama ways). Trump is a wildcard..who really knows what he will do and be able to do..And Bernie? I doubt he could accomplish much because the republicans and dems alike would be stopping him in congress..

Voting this year feels like having to chose which of your dear children gets tortured to death with the promise that the other go free unharmed.


That said, Doug Wilson spots the 'silver' lining.

No, no. I haven’t gone soft in the #NeverTrump department. Read on.
“Their heart is as fat as grease; But I delight in thy law” ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Ps. 119.70]Ps. 119:70[/url]).
1. A Trump administration would manifestly be a judgment from God, and judgments from God are good. Not pleasant, but they are always good.
God knows how to make the ears tingle ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Jer. 19.3]Jer. 19:3[/url]). And when He brings evil upon a nation, He is doing what is good.
2. A Trump administration would mean that as a nation we had abandoned the pretenses of hypocrisy and evasion. Our egotism would be manifest, our pride appalling, and our insolence remarkable.
When politicians are hypocrites, voters have plausible deniability. But when the politicians brag about their infidelity, when they boast in their ignorance, when they luxuriate in their dishonesty, and it doesn’t appear to matter to the electorate, then it is time to acknowledge that the electorate deserves whatever it is going to get, good and hard.
And we can look forward to a lot more of these Weekly Standard covers . . .
3. A Trump administration would identify a larger number of “conservative” hustlers than have already been revealed.
Eric Hoffer identified the natural progression. First a movement, then a business, and finally a racket. I do not have the time this morning to get into naming names, but the first one that comes to mind, ironically enough, rhymes with sanity.
4. A Trump administration would destroy the Republican Party.
Now would be a good time for it. And the fact that Sanders won Indiana last night means that there are deep fault lines within the Democratic Party as well. It would be nice to see them both blow up at the same time. That way we might have some real options. In other words, consider that it might not be the Republicans coming apart so much as it is the Establishment coming apart. Hope springs eternal.
5. A Trump administration would jar a large number of complacent Christians out of their doctrinal excuses for non-involvement in the political realm.
This has already happened to a certain extent, and we should naturally encourage this process along. Those evangelical leaders who were awakened from their dogmatic slumbers just in time to say #NeverTrump may be prevailed upon in time to put #Never in front of some other abominations as well. I have plenty of suggestions here. There have been lots.
6. A Trump administration would lay to rest forever the idea that “anything is better than the Democrat.”
Obama is an autocratic despot, but he at least has the good grace to pretend not to be one. This goes back to the point made earlier about hypocrisy. As the saying goes, hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue, which means that it is possible to sink lower than hypocrisy. You can stop making that tribute, and let your despotic impulses run openly, free and unfettered. That is Trump. The fact that in his erratic despotism he might occasionally do a good thing is beside the point. I would rather be executed by the bad guy than play Russian roulette with the crazy guy.
7. A Trump administration would humiliate American pride.
Humiliation sometimes leads to humility, and humility to repentance. There is no political solution for our sickness. Things can be better or worse politically, but there is no such thing as political salvation. Politics can be saved, but the first step toward such a salvation is admitting that politics is never a savior.
It is Christ or the void, Christ or chaos, Christ or anarchy, Christ or the abyss. A Trump administration would give us many more opportunities to say so. And a preacher who cannot preach a message of repentance to a nation that chose Trump to lead them is a preacher who couldn’t hit the ground with his hat.

Kasich is out..he just quit..Its Trump all the way..

That said, Doug Wilson spots the 'silver' lining.

I disagree with everything this guy said..then again I am not an Evangelical Christian...
....................
I think its gonna come down to Trump and Clinton..On Issues like gay marriage, The transgender issue, equal rights, Separation Of God and State, Disability rights, Drug Use and criminal law reformation I tend to favor Hillary but on issues like immigration, second amendment, Healthcare, closed border and the wall and taxes I favor trump.. Since those issues are more important to me and I really dont think Trump cares about issues like gay marriage and God and state (even though he claims he does) I will most likely vote for Trump..

Here's what I like about this situation and have hope (he may be a fraud but he offers more than most):

- Is the most interested in restoring national sovereignty by reversing the pure destruction that Nixon and HW Bush instigated by empowering China's economic power on us

- Will go after the Federal Reserve (which isn't Federal BTW), a fiat illusion that keeps printing money and putting the US in greater and greater debt.  Going after the international banking cartel gets me excited and shoots to the political heart of the matter.

- Putting us back on the gold standard (thx again Nixon)

- Will fight the foreign banksters that are ruining the country, since he's been fighting banksters his entire career

- May get some semblance of the truth of 9/11 if the 28 redacted pages get revealed, exposing more collusion and coverup from Chaney and co. for protecting Saudi Arabia's involvement.

- Goes after the Bush Family Criminal Cartel hardcore and does not seem to fear them.  Hopefully I can see HW Bush hang from a rope before he dies in his wheel chair for his crimes against humanity (along with Hans Kissinger).

- Could possibly enforce our immigration laws with no amnesty allowed - what a concept

- Reversing executive orders from he-who-shall-not-be-named

- Put the smack down on the TPP

- End the "affordable" get-the-insurance-companies-richer healthcare act

- JFK truth revealed?  Possibly?  He's already brought Lee Harvey Oswald up again in the news: we'll see...

These are just possible scenarios that actually exist - not that he will actually do it or that I am endorsing him, but no other candidate offers these (that are electable).

- Goes after the Bush Family Criminal Cartel hardcore and does not seem to fear them.  Hopefully I can see HW Bush hang from a rope before he dies in his wheel chair for his crimes against humanity (along with Hans Kissinger).

personally I dont feel like Bush committed any war crimes...I think Trump does favor things like waterboarding and he has said we have to do whatever is necessary to beat ISIS...

Oh, and how could I forget:

-Doesn't believe in the global warming theory and calls it a "hoax" so we don't have to worry about carbon tax scamming.

-will bring more light to the destruction that vaccines have reaped upon the general public

Savage Amusement wrote:Kasich is out..he just quit..Its Trump all the way..

That said, Doug Wilson spots the 'silver' lining.

I disagree with everything this guy said..then again I am not an Evangelical Christian...

So, what kind of Evangelical are you?

Seriously though, if you have time, could you please state any or all of the reasons you disagree with Wilson?

So, what kind of Evangelical are you?

I am not an evangelical anything ...I dont really like the term Christian much either..its so generic and tends to represent ideas and beliefs I shun...I believe in God and I believe Jesus was raised from the dead and is the Savior and I put my faith in him for salvation but I dont believe in The trinity, original sin or that we are under the ot law in any way...I simply believe that if you confess Christ with your mouth and believe in your heart that he was raised from the dead you are saved..thats it...

Seriously though, if you have time, could you please state any or all of the reasons you disagree with Wilson?

ok, you asked so I will answer...I will just place a number and respond to that number as it matches the comment above...

1. I dont believe that a Trump administration is a judgement as I dont believe that there is any judgement...I dont believe that God Judges nations or individuals any more..It is written that those who are saved are under no judgment in this world or the next and that the unsaved have already been judged..All judgement already fell on Christ so judgement is over....

2. I dont see Trump as a hypocrite or a racist or bigot..I see him as an honest guy who just tells it like it is and doesn't hide behind excuses or lies like alot of people do..He lets it all hang out and what you see is what you get and thats how it should be..in fact thats how we should all live because thats honest...So a vote for trump is a vote for honesty in my view...

3. This might be right to an extent..Fox news, Hanity and in my view The American conservative Christianity leaders are the biggest hustlers in town..

4. A Trump administration will not destroy the republican party..just redefine it and it wont be the first time in our country's history that that has happened....People are changing and evolving and thats a good thing..

5.I dont think a Trump administration will jar the Evangelical Christians ..Those that dont vote are not moved by any candidate and those that do will fall in line ..(although a few may form their own party but I seriously doubt it would amount to anything)..in the end some conservatives will complain but thats where it will stop...

6. Trump would make a better president than Hillary and definitely Bernie because our country actually lines up more with trump..Like I said, he lets it all hang out and encourages others to do the same...Most (not all) people hide behind all sorts of things (religion, old school ideas, The past) and shouldn't do that... Calling Trump a despotic president but not calling groups like the NRA or the Christian Church or the Muslims church despotic would be hypocrisy.. It seems to me we haven't had a single president in the last twenty  years that was a team player ..they have all been Despotic in their ways..

7. First off let me say I believe there should be a sharp and heavy separation of church and state...and the idea that a Trump presidency should lead to repentance is utter nonsense..I already explained that I dont think their is nothing to repent for (see my beliefs in the answer to your first question)...So I don't thing Trump would humiliate American pride (pride is a good thing   )...I think it would bolster it...Most Americans already have a "we are better than the rest of the world" attitude and a "the rest of the world can kiss my A**" and everyone knows it and most Americans dont care what other country's think..Even alot of churches teach these ideas by saying that America is Gods chosen nation (a lie by the way..Israel is Gods chosen nation)...Bank on it..Our nation..The USA...is not going to repent for nothing..ever!

Savage Amusement wrote:

So, what kind of Evangelical are you?

I am not an evangelical anything ...I dont really like the term Christian much either..its so generic and tends to represent ideas and beliefs I shun...I believe in God and I believe Jesus was raised from the dead and is the Savior and I put my faith in him for salvation but I dont believe in The trinity, original sin or that we are under the ot law in any way...I simply believe that if you confess Christ with your mouth and believe in your heart that he was raised from the dead you are saved..thats it...

Seriously though, if you have time, could you please state any or all of the reasons you disagree with Wilson?

ok, you asked so I will answer...I will just place a number and respond to that number as it matches the comment above...

1. I dont believe that a Trump administration is a judgement as I dont believe that there is any judgement...I dont believe that God Judges nations or individuals any more..It is written that those who are saved are under no judgment in this world or the next and that the unsaved have already been judged..All judgement already fell on Christ so judgement is over....

2. I dont see Trump as a hypocrite or a racist or bigot..I see him as an honest guy who just tells it like it is and doesn't hide behind excuses or lies like alot of people do..He lets it all hang out and what you see is what you get and thats how it should be..in fact thats how we should all live because thats honest...So a vote for trump is a vote for honesty in my view...

3. This might be right to an extent..Fox news, Hanity and in my view The American conservative Christianity leaders are the biggest hustlers in town..

4. A Trump administration will not destroy the republican party..just redefine it and it wont be the first time in our country's history that that has happened....People are changing and evolving and thats a good thing..

5.I dont think a Trump administration will jar the Evangelical Christians ..Those that dont vote are not moved by any candidate and those that do will fall in line ..(although a few may form their own party but I seriously doubt it would amount to anything)..in the end some conservatives will complain but thats where it will stop...

6. Trump would make a better president than Hillary and definitely Bernie because our country actually lines up more with trump..Like I said, he lets it all hang out and encourages others to do the same...Most (not all) people hide behind all sorts of things (religion, old school ideas, The past) and shouldn't do that... Calling Trump a despotic president but not calling groups like the NRA or the Christian Church or the Muslims church despotic would be hypocrisy.. It seems to me we haven't had a single president in the last twenty  years that was a team player ..they have all been Despotic in their ways..

7. First off let me say I believe there should be a sharp and heavy separation of church and state...and the idea that a Trump presidency should lead to repentance is utter nonsense..I already explained that I dont think their is nothing to repent for (see my beliefs in the answer to your first question)...So I don't thing Trump would humiliate American pride (pride is a good thing   )...I think it would bolster it...Most Americans already have a "we are better than the rest of the world" attitude and a "the rest of the world can kiss my A**" and everyone knows it and most Americans dont care what other country's think..Even alot of churches teach these ideas by saying that America is Gods chosen nation (a lie by the way..Israel is Gods chosen nation)...Bank on it..Our nation..The USA...is not going to repent for nothing..ever!

While I am not a Trump fanboy (I actually liked Carson and Cruz), I have to agree with this.  Trump is no more the anti-Christ that people are making him out to be than Obama has been to the conservatives.  I was even guilty of thinking that but stand corrected.  I don't care for the things Obama has done as president, but he isn't what I originally thought.  I can admit that.

As for this country repenting, you are correct.  What leads to repentance?  The Word of God being placed in your heart by the Holy Spirit.  People don't cause repentance.  Movements don't bring repentance.  Governments don't cause repentance.  When the Holy Spirit pricks the heart of a man or woman with God's word of truth of salvation only through faith in Christ, that brings repentance. 

I also agree that Trump is not a judgment on this nation.  If that is so, then so was Obama as we have definitely moved further away from God as a society.  Besides, in the Old Testament when God judged and brought down a nation, there were always prophets who made it more than abundantly clear what was about to happen.  Who are those prophets of today?  Does God still judge like He once did on a national scale, or is that judgment saved for those who rejected Jesus?  While I haven't really considered whether God still judges nations, I don't think that one man being a president constitutes God's wrath on America.

d@v!d wrote:Voting this year feels like having to chose which of your dear children gets tortured to death with the promise that the other go free unharmed.


That said, Doug Wilson spots the 'silver' lining.

No, no. I haven’t gone soft in the #NeverTrump department. Read on.
“Their heart is as fat as grease; But I delight in thy law” ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Ps. 119.70]Ps. 119:70[/url]).
1. A Trump administration would manifestly be a judgment from God, and judgments from God are good. Not pleasant, but they are always good.
God knows how to make the ears tingle ([url=http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Jer. 19.3]Jer. 19:3[/url]). And when He brings evil upon a nation, He is doing what is good.
2. A Trump administration would mean that as a nation we had abandoned the pretenses of hypocrisy and evasion. Our egotism would be manifest, our pride appalling, and our insolence remarkable.
When politicians are hypocrites, voters have plausible deniability. But when the politicians brag about their infidelity, when they boast in their ignorance, when they luxuriate in their dishonesty, and it doesn’t appear to matter to the electorate, then it is time to acknowledge that the electorate deserves whatever it is going to get, good and hard.
And we can look forward to a lot more of these Weekly Standard covers . . .
3. A Trump administration would identify a larger number of “conservative” hustlers than have already been revealed.
Eric Hoffer identified the natural progression. First a movement, then a business, and finally a racket. I do not have the time this morning to get into naming names, but the first one that comes to mind, ironically enough, rhymes with sanity.
4. A Trump administration would destroy the Republican Party.
Now would be a good time for it. And the fact that Sanders won Indiana last night means that there are deep fault lines within the Democratic Party as well. It would be nice to see them both blow up at the same time. That way we might have some real options. In other words, consider that it might not be the Republicans coming apart so much as it is the Establishment coming apart. Hope springs eternal.
5. A Trump administration would jar a large number of complacent Christians out of their doctrinal excuses for non-involvement in the political realm.
This has already happened to a certain extent, and we should naturally encourage this process along. Those evangelical leaders who were awakened from their dogmatic slumbers just in time to say #NeverTrump may be prevailed upon in time to put #Never in front of some other abominations as well. I have plenty of suggestions here. There have been lots.
6. A Trump administration would lay to rest forever the idea that “anything is better than the Democrat.”
Obama is an autocratic despot, but he at least has the good grace to pretend not to be one. This goes back to the point made earlier about hypocrisy. As the saying goes, hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue, which means that it is possible to sink lower than hypocrisy. You can stop making that tribute, and let your despotic impulses run openly, free and unfettered. That is Trump. The fact that in his erratic despotism he might occasionally do a good thing is beside the point. I would rather be executed by the bad guy than play Russian roulette with the crazy guy.
7. A Trump administration would humiliate American pride.
Humiliation sometimes leads to humility, and humility to repentance. There is no political solution for our sickness. Things can be better or worse politically, but there is no such thing as political salvation. Politics can be saved, but the first step toward such a salvation is admitting that politics is never a savior.
It is Christ or the void, Christ or chaos, Christ or anarchy, Christ or the abyss. A Trump administration would give us many more opportunities to say so. And a preacher who cannot preach a message of repentance to a nation that chose Trump to lead them is a preacher who couldn’t hit the ground with his hat.

1.  I don't believe God brings judgment on nations any more, but even if I did, this is a ridiculous notion.  In the OT, when God brought judgment on a nation it was either against Israel to bring them to repentance or against nations that hassled Israel.  Now, this gets at one of my Evangelical pet peeves--the notion that somehow God has chosen the U.S. as his new chosen people.  
2.  One thing Trump's campaign has done is given an outlet to this seething anger that runs through our nation now.  Trump is giving us somewhere to focus our anger, someone to blame for the problems we are facing, and the good news is that this time it is someone else--foreigners.  Yes, it is those drug-running Mexicans, those Muslims who want to come here to rape and kill, China, all these foreign countries who are drawing American businesses away.  What's more is Trump is going to do something about all these problems.  Ain't no carrot with this guy, he's all stick.
3.  Within a few weeks, Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly and all the rest will have always supported Trump.
4.  I'm ok with this one.  I think what both Trump and Sanders are showing is that we are on the cusp of the next stage in the evolution of American politics.  I'm sure we all know that there were other parties before the Republicans and Democrats (which actually used to be combined as one of the parties).  I think we are seeing perhaps a break down of the party system altogether.  Well, maybe that's a bit much.  But both parties would be as idiotic as the recording industry if they didn't take this election as a wakeup call.
5.  This guy obviously forgets/is ignoring the fact that Evangelicals overwhelmingly have supported Trump since voting started.  
6.  I know people won't agree with me, but I disagree with his assessment of Obama as an autocratic despot.  Every president comes into office with an agenda and a plan for what he would like to see happen during his term and he pushes his agenda.  Since Obama took office, there has been a block of legislators who have vowed to block him every step of the way.  We are seeing it now with this Supreme Court nonsense.  Early on, he repeatedly tried to work out compromises and reach out to Republicans, but little was accomplished that way.  So now he's more or less stuck with either using executive powers or getting nothing accomplished.  I'm not so sure Trump will be a despot either.  Every presidential candidate talks like he/she will be the supreme ruler of the land.  "I will..."  Yeah, if Congress goes along with it.
7.  Seriously?  Trump is fueling American pride!  His whole campaign is built around the premise that when he becomes President, we're just going to collectively flip the bird to the rest of the world because we're America and we don't need anyone else.

Savage Amusement wrote:ok, you asked so I will answer...I will just place a number and respond to that number as it matches the comment above...

Thanks man!

I just hope he leaves the Internet alone (didnt he say something about shutting down social media sites if it could stop terrorism?).

WildWorld wrote:I just hope he leaves the Internet alone (didnt he say something about shutting down social media sites if it could stop terrorism?).

Guess what: if social media were to get shut down (it won't), there would be a huge influx of forum junkies yearning for social connectedness. We'd have all kinds of new friends! Lol!

Trump says if he doesn't win, US will become another Venezuela! http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1895714-donald-trump-advirtio-que-si-no-gana-eeuu-puede-convertirse-en-argentina-o-venezuela

Darth Vader wrote:Trump says if he doesn't win, US will become another Venezuela! http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1895714-donald-trump-advirtio-que-si-no-gana-eeuu-puede-convertirse-en-argentina-o-venezuela

Estamos en el camino hacia Venezuela desde hace tiempo. Gente como Sanders no nacio apenas ayer. Trump no es mucho mejor que Cliton o Sanders. Me recuerdo de cuando nos advirtiste que nunca adaptaremos el socialismo. Conmenzamos en el en los 30. Eschucha a lo que dijo Regan en los 60 y tendras mejor idea de donde estamos hoy en dia.

If Trump wins we will be a English only forum by law..  ..and David might be deported ....

Savage Amusement wrote:If Trump wins we will be a English only forum by law..  ..and David might be deported ....

lol

Savage Amusement wrote:If Trump wins we will be a English only forum by law..  ..and David might be deported ....

Does that mean we can only discuss American metal bands as well? Because a metal forum thats not allowed to talk about British metal isnt very metal.

WildWorld wrote:

Savage Amusement wrote:If Trump wins we will be a English only forum by law..  ..and David might be deported ....

Does that mean we can only discuss American metal bands as well? Because a metal forum thats not allowed to talk about British metal isnt very metal.

No, it's OK because the British speak our language too.