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StevenCressler wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:^That's two Christians: Zak and Steven, who have admitted to never seeing a miracle or any wonders in their time as a Christian (which I assume has been a few years). Thank you guys for answering the question.

I have technically seen wonders. I see one every day I'm at home and have for nearly a year now. I'll refer to him as Raven, as that's what we call him sometimes and my mom probably doesn't want me giving his name out on the internet lol. Every other baby is also a wonder. Everytime I go out in the wilderness and see an animal, or a waterfall, or the sunlight coming through the trees, that's a wonder. When I look up at the stars at night I see millions of wonders. No matter how much pain it might cause me, every time I see a girl that makes me feel things, I see a wonder. There's many things that aren't wonders in the sense you mean, but they are wonderful. Too wonderful, IMO, to be anything other than a design, and that designer would have to much better than me. I can design cool creatures from distorting and ampilifying elements from things God created, but I couldn't design one myself, and if it did I'm sure it would be nowhere near babies or mothers. That's proof enough for me.

You know what I meant. You owned up to it. Now you are backing tracking. That's being dishonest. 

This stuff you mention above is just wishy washy typical  flowery language Christianity use that means absolutely nothing. Muslims say the same stuff. I'm dealing with evidence of miracles and wonders as compared to what's in the bible that happened in those amazing biblical times, and those times alone,  when people apparently lived to 1000 years old lolz; no modern medicine even for the common cold, or technology or surgery— but still, they lived into hundreds of years of age, some 1000, during these times of great wonders and miracles and frankly MAGIC like sorcery. Rods turning into snakes= sorcery= lord of the rings and the stuff out of Conan the barbarian stories written by Robert  E Howard.

None of these things, not one of you,  have seen or witnessed, yet lots of people HEAR about these things.

None of you have witnessed a miracle or a wonder. It's that simple.


How does any of this make the slightest bit of sense.


Seth you have a liver inside your body lolz, etc... and you know it...stop grasping at straws it's just embarrassing when Christians stoop this low in defense.

TZ75 wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:

TZ75 wrote:If we were in the ancient times of the Bible, 100 years is like a young teenager. Some of those people lived to almost 1000. 

And here's the kicker, they didn't even have the medicines or technology we have today!!! It's quite amazing when you really think about it, how some people lived to 1000 years and other's hundreds in those days, yet many in medieval times lived only to 30 sumthin years.... unbelievable almost... almost... but as we know, those old biblical times were always more magic than other times, that's when miracles were happening left right and center and god openly displayed his power and even showed up a time or two. Since those times... not even a peek-a-boo or a burning bush or a parted sea...not even a rod turning into a snake... and we all be dropping dead and lucky to reach 100.

I just assume they lived longer back then because they were more pure from Adam’s less blemished genetics. Compared to thousands of years of different diseases and sicknesses among us…

The medieval times people were filthy. They threw their excrement on the streets and all kinds of nasty stuff. Bathing was mostly unheard of (unless you were royalty).

Lolz... I'll stop now. This is just ridiculous.

Dustofyears wrote:

StevenCressler wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:^That's two Christians: Zak and Steven, who have admitted to never seeing a miracle or any wonders in their time as a Christian (which I assume has been a few years). Thank you guys for answering the question.

I have technically seen wonders. I see one every day I'm at home and have for nearly a year now. I'll refer to him as Raven, as that's what we call him sometimes and my mom probably doesn't want me giving his name out on the internet lol. Every other baby is also a wonder. Everytime I go out in the wilderness and see an animal, or a waterfall, or the sunlight coming through the trees, that's a wonder. When I look up at the stars at night I see millions of wonders. No matter how much pain it might cause me, every time I see a girl that makes me feel things, I see a wonder. There's many things that aren't wonders in the sense you mean, but they are wonderful. Too wonderful, IMO, to be anything other than a design, and that designer would have to much better than me. I can design cool creatures from distorting and ampilifying elements from things God created, but I couldn't design one myself, and if it did I'm sure it would be nowhere near babies or mothers. That's proof enough for me.

You know what I meant. You owned up to it. Now you are backing tracking. That's being dishonest. 

This stuff you mention above is just wishy washy typical  flowery language Christianity use that means absolutely nothing. Muslims say the same stuff. I'm dealing with evidence of miracles and wonders as compared to what's in the bible that happened in those amazing biblical times, and those times alone,  when people apparently lived to 1000 years old lolz; no modern medicine even for the common cold, or technology or surgery— but still, they lived into hundreds of years of age, some 1000, during these times of great wonders and miracles and frankly MAGIC like sorcery. Rods turning into snakes= sorcery= lord of the rings and the stuff out of Conan the barbarian stories written by Robert  E Howard.

None of these things, not one of you,  have seen or witnessed, yet lots of people HEAR about these things.

None of you have witnessed a miracle or a wonder. It's that simple.


How does any of this make the slightest bit of sense.


Seth you have a liver inside your body lolz, etc... and you know it...stop grasping at straws it's just embarrassing when Christians stoop this low in defense.

No I don’t. I’ve never seen it. Sure, random people who call themselves “scientists” and “doctors” say I have one, but I don’t have faith in what they say, because faith is for losers

I know the argument is ridiculous. It’s supposed to be. I am illustrating how your argument sounds to us, you seem to be saying that the only reliable source of knowledge is that you see firsthand with your eyes.

Such weak arguments. This is getting beyond intellectual dishonesty and into the realms of lunacy. Cheers. I'll respectfully move on from this thread.

Fyi, Dust, I wasn't backtracking or being dishonest, I was just trying to write something that sounded deep I know that wasn't real proof for miracles or anything... And I never pass up an opportunity to talk about how wonderful Raven is lol

Dusty, you are entertaining!

But don’t cross the line again. Remember the thin ice from last time. 

I already know we disagree on biblical and spiritual matters… but I like that we have a similar taste in music.

Chill bro!

I am obviously aware btw that there is more empirical observable evidence for the existence of livers than for the factuality of Moses’ rod turning into a snake. My point is that you ask questions like this, implying that miracles aren’t real because you and I haven’t seen one with our eyes, but you simultaneously discount anyone else’s testimony that goes against your narrative. The people posting in this thread who haven’t seen a miracle are genuine to you, but others who have must just be crazy or liars or something. Is that not intellectual dishonesty?

StevenCressler wrote:Fyi, Dust, I wasn't backtracking or being dishonest, I was just trying to write something that sounded deep I know that wasn't real proof for miracles or anything... And I never pass up an opportunity to talk about how wonderful Raven is lol

K Steve cheers lolz

TZ75 wrote:Dusty, you are entertaining!

But don’t cross the line again. Remember the thin ice from last time. 

I already know we disagree on biblical and spiritual matters… but I like that we have a similar taste in music.

Chill bro!

K I know. the ice is thin and cracking all around me. Cheers TZ.

I didn’t want to go find Benny Hinn and hire him to smack someone upside the head!

seth wrote:I am obviously aware btw that there is more empirical observable evidence for the existence of livers than for the factuality of Moses’ rod turning into a snake. My point is that you ask questions like this, implying that miracles aren’t real because you and I haven’t seen one with our eyes, but you simultaneously discount anyone else’s testimony that goes against your narrative. The people posting in this thread who haven’t seen a miracle are genuine to you, but others who have must just be crazy or liars or something. Is that not intellectual dishonesty?

Not you and Just I. My point is, no one has. ok I am finished here. Cheers Seth.

^ Point proven

Even Christians can trigger each other here… so I can imagine that Dusty is ready to rumble all the time.

seth wrote:I am obviously aware btw that there is more empirical observable evidence for the existence of livers than for the factuality of Moses’ rod turning into a snake. My point is that you ask questions like this, implying that miracles aren’t real because you and I haven’t seen one with our eyes, but you simultaneously discount anyone else’s testimony that goes against your narrative. The people posting in this thread who haven’t seen a miracle are genuine to you, but others who have must just be crazy or liars or something. Is that not intellectual dishonesty?

Tbf, I can't think of anyone here who even said they've seen one

The Willy Wonka pic fits Dusty’s comments perfectly.

TZ75 wrote:The Willy Wonka pic fits Dusty’s comments perfectly.

Yeah, it was a good choice for his signature lol

StevenCressler wrote:

seth wrote:I am obviously aware btw that there is more empirical observable evidence for the existence of livers than for the factuality of Moses’ rod turning into a snake. My point is that you ask questions like this, implying that miracles aren’t real because you and I haven’t seen one with our eyes, but you simultaneously discount anyone else’s testimony that goes against your narrative. The people posting in this thread who haven’t seen a miracle are genuine to you, but others who have must just be crazy or liars or something. Is that not intellectual dishonesty?

Tbf, I can't think of anyone here who even said they've seen one

I didn’t mean here specifically, you are correct. I meant in general, since there are instances of Christians who claim to have seen miracles. I have heard several accounts firsthand of this, including from the pastor of the church I grew up in (who is far from the charlatan, miracle-faking type such as Benny Hinn etc). Dust is pointing to the fact that he hasn’t heard an account of a miracle from anyone on this site as proof miracles don’t exist, while ignoring accounts from elsewhere of miracles having occurred. Although I highly suspect even if one of us had seen a miracle first hand, he would not believe us

Some also believe those many years folks lived to be figurative somehow, others would say that the flood affected the sun's harm to life on earth...

I have also heard theories that the oxygen content in the atmosphere was different at that time, leading to slower aging. The theory about those people being closer to Adam’s perfect genetics, without the gradual “devolution” of genetic flaws built over time could be onto something as well

seth wrote:

StevenCressler wrote:

seth wrote:I am obviously aware btw that there is more empirical observable evidence for the existence of livers than for the factuality of Moses’ rod turning into a snake. My point is that you ask questions like this, implying that miracles aren’t real because you and I haven’t seen one with our eyes, but you simultaneously discount anyone else’s testimony that goes against your narrative. The people posting in this thread who haven’t seen a miracle are genuine to you, but others who have must just be crazy or liars or something. Is that not intellectual dishonesty?

Tbf, I can't think of anyone here who even said they've seen one

I didn’t mean here specifically, you are correct. I meant in general, since there are instances of Christians who claim to have seen miracles. I have heard several accounts firsthand of this, including from the pastor of the church I grew up in (who is far from the charlatan, miracle-faking type such as Benny Hinn etc). Dust is pointing to the fact that he hasn’t heard an account of a miracle from anyone on this site as proof miracles don’t exist, while ignoring accounts from elsewhere of miracles having occurred. Although I highly suspect even if one of us had seen a miracle first hand, he would not believe us

True... I think he'd think we thought we were telling the truth, as I think he trusts us (or at least me) more than most Christians, but he'd probably find a way around it and say we were interpreting it wrong.

TZ75 wrote:The Willy Wonka pic fits Dusty’s comments perfectly.

It is pretty adorbs innit. I like the Ash Pfp too, great movies those first 3 evil deads, though I had to watch the 3rd one again to appreciate it.

Dustofyears wrote:

TZ75 wrote:The Willy Wonka pic fits Dusty’s comments perfectly.

It is pretty adorbs innit. I like the Ash Pfp too, great movies those first 3 evil deads, though I had to watch the 3rd one again to appreciate it.

Gene Wilder was a comedic genius.

Sure was. And the best Wonka there was and ever will be.

Dustofyears wrote:Sure was. And the best Wonka there was and ever will be.

He was born for that role.

Dustofyears wrote:I'll stop now.

No you won't.

Dustofyears wrote:I'll respectfully move on from this thread.

No you won't.

Dustofyears wrote:ok I am finished here.

I doubt it.

I wonder how many times people have seen miracles but have thought it was a hallucination or they just saw or remembered things wrong.

The only supernatural kind of a thing I've personally experienced is an out of body experience during a sleep paralysis several times. That's a relatively common experience but the consensus within unbelievers seems to be it's a hallucination type of a thing caused by brain chemicals or whatever.

Can't really say what it really is but one thing I can say for a 100% certainty is that the experience of leaving from your body is real, no matter what it is.