Re: Unorthodox Christian Metal Opinions

by Temple of Blood Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:46 am

mothy wrote:Mortification:

S/T is better then Scrolls. I love Scrolls but Mick C's play style fits with the S/T music style better so it makes it a stronger record.

Agreed!

I thought I was alone on that one.

by Constantine Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:13 pm

I agree too, I think the Mortification S/T is better than Scrolls, In fact I think it's their best album overall. At least it's the one I would personally want to listen to most.

by Hardcore Christian Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:16 pm

mothy wrote:Mortification:

S/T is better then Scrolls. I love Scrolls but Mick C's play style fits with the S/T music style better so it makes it a stronger record.

Post Momentary is their best album overall.

EnVision Evangelene is their most complete sound from start to finish.

Agreed, Scrolls is a beast of an album through and through but when I wanna jam some Morti I usually reach for self-titled or Post Momentary

by mothy Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:04 pm

I thought it would be "Unorthodox" lol

by Constantine Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:09 pm

Well it definitely goes against the prevailing hype that's out there....anytime you see an article on the beginnings of Christian extreme metal, Scrolls is always held up as a pinnacle of the genre. Which it is, but the first album often gets treated as an afterthought and I find it more enjoyable to listen to.

by eatbugs Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:11 pm

mothy wrote:I thought it would be "Unorthodox" lol

It is unorthodox. You all are heretics! lol!

by Constantine Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:12 pm

We should be burned at the stake!

by mothy Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:06 pm

eatbugs wrote:
mothy wrote:I thought it would be "Unorthodox" lol

It is unorthodox. You all are heretics!

LOL Lisetening to S/T now and dont think Ill ever not feel that way

by Pethead Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:45 pm

I’d go:

Post Momentary Affliction>Scrolls>S/T.

All are great. Everything up through Hammer of God is my favorite, although I’ve enjoyed most of their catalog. To me, PMA is their peak.

by Airola Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:00 pm

Relentless and Brain Cleaner are very underrated Mortification albums.

The Evil Addiction Destroying Machine contains some of the best guitar and drum playing in the whole Mortification catalog.

by Constantine Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:24 pm

I like Relentless and some of Brain Cleaner but that Evil Addiction album is by far the worst in their entire catalog. I haven't paid attention to the playing because the songs are so awful.

by Pethead Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:38 pm

I like Brain Cleaner and Relentless fine. The only Mort album I don't really care for is Scribe of the Pentateuch and even that has moments I like.

I think the playing on Evil Addiction is great and I prefer it to the playing on Brain Cleaner and Erasing the Goblin. However, when I listen to Evil Addiction, I come away thinking that while the band sounds great the songs just aren't quite there.

I think Blood World is super underrated.

My favorite post-Mick Carlisle is probably Hammer of God.

by Airola Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:41 pm

Constantine wrote:I like Relentless and some of Brain Cleaner but that Evil Addiction album is by far the worst in their entire catalog. I haven't paid attention to the playing because the songs are so awful.

I went great lengths to write about how that album is among the worst of Mortification, but deleted it and just thought to give the unorthodox opinion about it because everyone knows about its badness and I didn't want to sound too negative about it.

But I have to admit that the album has grown on me a bit. As I was writing about why it's bad (which I then deleted) I listened to a lot of its tracks and I'm kinda starting to hear what Steve was trying to do with that album. Sure, it still has terrible song structures and the riffs and melodies often go exactly the way you wouldn't want them to go, but there is this simple (hardcore) punk influence going through the whole album. The flow of the songs is janky and awkward but I kinda like some of the "I don't care, I play what I want" attitude the album has.

I've always kinda liked the song A Sense of Eternity even though that one has some annoying parts too. It has a cool dark bridge part and a fun melodic metal riff in the chorus. And the last listen had me enjoying I'm Not Confused and Elastisized Outrage quite a lot too.
It REALLY helps if you pay attention to the drumming quality and the solos. The playing really shines and depending on what you pay attention to is either buried under terrible song structures and really uninspiring riffs, or they are singlehandedly saving the album from being really terrible. If you can do the latter, the songs start to feel better as time goes by.

The solos and the drumming with fills and bass drum triplets and little details here and there really sound like they were playing as if this is the best album ever, completely unashamed! You can hear from the players that they took their job very seriously. If I try to follow the guitar riffs on Elastisized Outrage, it kinda makes me very annoyed and almost makes me unable to listen to the song, BUT when I switch my listening mode into following how FURIOUS and HUNGRY Adam's drumming is, it makes me tolerate (and even LIKE!) the riffs too.

Then even with a seemingly awful song like One Man With Courage Makes a Majority, there are some really good drum and guitar solo parts. If you take those parts out, the song might be the worst Mortification song ever, but it's those parts and the skillful playing that saves the song.

It's a really odd album that constantly has this weird rollercoaster of the songs constantly switching from the worst thing you've ever heard (exaggerating quite a bit here of course) to some REALLY awesome stuff. Pilots Hanging from Shoulder Dust is a good example of that. It's like... "this song is quite annoying.... oh wait it got fast, ok the drummer is pretty goOH WOW the drummer is doing some nice ride cymbal tricks now that's really goodaaaaaand ok were back in the annoying part" and it goes like that through the whole song.

If you really listen closely to this album it's filled with hidden gems in its details. Too bad most of the riffs and song structures are very hard to listen and enjoy, but if you force yourself through the bad with a certain mindset you'll find some really good stuff hidden in the songs too, and eventually some of what you thought was impossible to listen sounds now better because of the overall energy.

by Guest Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:47 pm

Airola wrote:
Constantine wrote:I like Relentless and some of Brain Cleaner but that Evil Addiction album is by far the worst in their entire catalog. I haven't paid attention to the playing because the songs are so awful.

I went great lengths to write about how that album is among the worst of Mortification, but deleted it and just thought to give the unorthodox opinion about it because everyone knows about its badness and I didn't want to sound too negative about it.

But I have to admit that the album has grown on me a bit. As I was writing about why it's bad (which I then deleted) I listened to a lot of its tracks and I'm kinda starting to hear what Steve was trying to do with that album. Sure, it still has terrible song structures and the riffs and melodies often go exactly the way you wouldn't want them to go, but there is this simple (hardcore) punk influence going through the whole album. The flow of the songs is janky and awkward but I kinda like some of the "I don't care, I play what I want" attitude the album has.

I've always kinda liked the song A Sense of Eternity even though that one has some annoying parts too. It has a cool dark bridge part and a fun melodic metal riff in the chorus. And the last listen had me enjoying I'm Not Confused and Elastisized Outrage quite a lot too.
It REALLY helps if you pay attention to the drumming quality and the solos. The playing really shines and depending on what you pay attention to is either buried under terrible song structures and really uninspiring riffs, or they are singlehandedly saving the album from being really terrible. If you can do the latter, the songs start to feel better as time goes by.

The solos and the drumming with fills and bass drum triplets and little details here and there really sound like they were playing as if this is the best album ever, completely unashamed! You can hear from the players that they took their job very seriously. If I try to follow the guitar riffs on Elastisized Outrage, it kinda makes me very annoyed and almost makes me unable to listen to the song, BUT when I switch my listening mode into following how FURIOUS and HUNGRY Adam's drumming is, it makes me tolerate (and even LIKE!) the riffs too.

Then even with a seemingly awful song like One Man With Courage Makes a Majority, there are some really good drum and guitar solo parts. If you take those parts out, the song might be the worst Mortification song ever, but it's those parts and the skillful playing that saves the song.

It's a really odd album that constantly has this weird rollercoaster of the songs constantly switching from the worst thing you've ever heard (exaggerating quite a bit here of course) to some REALLY awesome stuff. Pilots Hanging from Shoulder Dust is a good example of that. It's like... "this song is quite annoying.... oh wait it got fast, ok the drummer is pretty goOH WOW the drummer is doing some nice ride cymbal tricks now that's really goodaaaaaand ok were back in the annoying part" and it goes like that through the whole song.

If you really listen closely to this album it's filled with hidden gems in its details. Too bad most of the riffs and song structures are very hard to listen and enjoy, but if you force yourself through the bad with a certain mindset you'll find some really good stuff hidden in the songs too, and eventually some of what you thought was impossible to listen sounds now better because of the overall energy.

I was going to read that comment, But I guess I will wait for the movie...

by Guest Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:49 pm

Airola wrote:Relentless and Brain Cleaner are very underrated Mortification albums.

Agreed on this, I love that heavy metal souonded they added to these two albums, clearer solos, and all of it...

by Constantine Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:06 pm

Alright, you guys sold me on giving Evil Addiction another try. I'll add it to my listening list.

by Airola Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:13 pm

Let me go a bit more into detail with Elastisized Outrage:

It starts immediately fast, which is always a positive thing. Sounding a bit uninspired, yes, but it's still fast. Nothing too great about the song but ok let's listen because it's fast.

Then comes the first blast beats and it's like, ok, they're going for some old school stuff here, but after the first blast beats you hear what was missing from the opening of the song: double bass triplets. Adam didn't play a single triplet before the blast beats, but then added them here and there. When the cycle starts all over, the triplets are gone, BUT there are a few more cymbal hits added to the regular fast drum beat. And then it's again the blast beats and then the bass drum triplets.

Going forward, you will notice at the end that he has upped the amount of triplets and the last part of the song has the fast drumming with nothing but triplets. Adam clearly knew what he was doing there. He is a major part in giving a normally average at best song the potential to be enjoyable by offering his skill to breathe some life to it whenever there is room for that. And the small solo part in the middle of the song is simple but WAY more energetic than what the song itself would deserve. Mike is using a lot of note bending tricks to bring the energy as high as possible there.

by MagnusPrime Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:27 pm

I think Steve was going for a "St. Anger" inspired approach with Evil Addiction. Not so much the sound quality (thankfully) but it's got the crazy randomized riff and song structure thing going on. I think I even remember Steve making remarks about how he admired the approach Metallica took with St. Anger when he was doing press for an album at some point.

by Constantine Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:40 pm

Pethead wrote:I think Blood World is super underrated.

According to press releases & Wikipedia, Blood World is actually the best selling album in their catalog.

I like it. It marked a change in styles from death/grind and death/thrash to a more melodic mixture of classic metal, thrash, and hardcore punk. It's basically thrash but has a "punkier" thrash vibe with more emphasis on the rhythm section and less on grinding guitar riffs and distortion. Also the prominent drums and bass gave the music a distinctive flavor that sets them apart from other extreme metal bands. The bass playing and drumming are some of the fastest and best as on any Mortification album. The vocals are mostly shouted and snarled but there are also enough death growls here for older fans.

What I also like is that "Blood World" is a consistent listen all the way through. There are no cringe-worthy and/or overly simplistic sings that make me want to hit the skip button. That is an issue on later albums.

If someone is new to Mortification, I would not recommend they start with this one, although they could certainly do worse.

by Joelpz27 Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:16 pm

Airola, you are awesome my friend...but perhaps I have another unorthodox view. One Man with Courage is a beautiful song, the lyrics are emboldening to fight the spiritual battles, and the riff just kicks!

Also I absolutely LOVE Evil Addiction... The odd time signatures, tight riffs, and crystal clear production just resonate with me. Oh and Adam's drumming just fits with this style so well. The only Mort album I can't get into is Scribe. While the songs themselves are ok the absolutely horrific drumming and equally bad production make it unlistenable for me.

In fact, for me, the drumming on Mort albums seem to be the biggest variance between them, and the level on which I like it.

Sherlock early era = mammoth drummer, mammoth sound.

Bannister middle era = simple and tame but groovy sound

Silver cord and Evil Addiction = Frenzied punk drummer, energetic sound.

Just some random thoughts, I love geeking out on Mort (glad you guys do too!)

by Temple of Blood Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:03 am

You guys are making me want to listen to the entire mortification discography

by alldatndensum Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:06 am

Here's my unorthodox opinions:

Saint's best work is their albums since they reformed with "In The Battle". Those first three projects are good, but I feel their latter era is their strongest.

Bride's second season (Kinetic Faith through Scarecrow Messiah) is worlds better than those first three albums. I almost never listen to those. I listen to "Fistful of Bees" more often than I do those first three albums.

by Pethead Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:06 am

Constantine wrote:
Pethead wrote:I think Blood World is super underrated.
According to press releases & Wikipedia, Blood World is actually the best selling album in their catalog.

I like it. It marked a change in styles from death/grind and death/thrash to a more melodic mixture of classic metal, thrash, and hardcore punk. It's basically thrash but has a "punkier" thrash vibe with more emphasis on the rhythm section and less on grinding guitar riffs and distortion. Also the prominent drums and bass gave the music a distinctive flavor that sets them apart from other extreme metal bands. The bass playing and drumming are some of the fastest and best as on any Mortification album. The vocals are mostly shouted and snarled but there are also enough death growls here for older fans.

What I also like is that "Blood World" is a consistent listen all the way through. There are no cringe-worthy and/or overly simplistic sings that make me want to hit the skip button. That is an issue on later albums.

If someone is new to Mortification, I would not recommend they start with this one, although they could certainly do worse.

Yeah, I knew it was their best-selling but from what I’ve seen fans tend to underrate it. The drumming speed is definitely insane.

by Pethead Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:11 am

alldatndensum wrote:Here's my unorthodox opinions:

Saint's best work is their albums since they reformed with "In The Battle". Those first three projects are good, but I feel their latter era is their strongest.

Bride's second season (Kinetic Faith through Scarecrow Messiah) is worlds better than those first three albums. I almost never listen to those. I listen to "Fistful of Bees" more often than I do those first three albums.

I’d say Saint’s recent work is equal to Time’s End and Too Late for Living, but I don’t think I can say it’s better. But all of it is awesome. Saint rules!

I like Bride’s first two eras about equal. I think Show No Mercy is the weakest of the first 6 (though I still like it), but Live to Die and Silence is Madness are ridiculously awesome.

by Temple of Blood Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:17 pm

My unorthodox opinions would probably get me kick off here. Smile

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