Re: Trump vs Carson on religion ?

by MikeInFla Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:34 pm

RavenWolf wrote:Thanks for the nice words!

Okay - before I officially leave ... I'm going to give my two cents.

For many years my family and I didn't have a good church to attend. We now have found a good church. But in the meantime we didn't have anywhere to call home.

I don't trust TV preachers at all because it seems they are out to get your money! But for some reason ... we started watching Joel Osteen and we felt ministered to. We watched him again ... week after week. And we felt like we were growing. We noticed that he NEVER once took up an offering or told anyone to send him money! This was different from other preachers we saw. We started to trust him.

I have learned SO much from Joel Osteen, I don't even know where to begin! He is like a personal pastor of mine! Even though I'm in Utah and he's in Texas. Before I had found a church home, Joel was my pastor and I still consider him to be! Personal attacks on him - are very personal to me! Is this whole board against my pastor???? Because if so ... that hurts. It also seems funny that Joel Osteen never talks bad about anyone - yet so many folks talk bad about him!

All he does is teach truth. Love. Peace. Joy. He focuses on positive things. And so do I! God is a POSITIVE and LOVING God! Not a negative bashing and Pharisee God!! Bashing others (especially men and women of God) is VERY dark and evil! Those who do such ... to me ... are the true Pharisees and are of their father the devil!!!!

So if you are going to judge me. Or my pastor (Joel Osteen), because I still consider him my pastor after all these years. Then I will leave this board and wipe the dust from my feet when I do.

If not. If there are any here who would tell me that they are NOT against me (or my pastor). Then I might stay. But I want to be upfront and honest. I believe in a GOOD God. I believe in Joel Osteen. And he is VERY different from most preachers. I don't trust most of them. I don't trust Kenneth Copeland and Creflo Dollar. But I do trust Joel Osteen as he is different from them.

I'm also very sad. Because when I came here to this board (thanks to the invitation of my very good friend, Aaron, whom I met years ago on another board) I began to think I had found a home online of sorts. Fellow believers who also loved Metal and other kinds of music. I had no idea that there was such hostility toward my pastor and the Word of God he teaches.

So .... please ... let me know. Should I stay or go? I don't want to cause problems for anyone here! I LOVE YOU GUYS!!! ALL OF YOU! I've began to make friendships here that could possibly turn into lifelong friendships. I'm saddened to think of losing all this.

But I will listen to what you say. Please ... if you think I'm a heretic because I listen to Joel Osteen. There is no way I can hang around for the derision that follows such judgement.

Friend,

Don't leave. I have enjoyed your participation here even though we have not conversed much together. I normally stay out of these types of topics and will remain to do so but I do read them from time to time. I don't care if you listen to Joel Osteen or anyone else for that matter. In my book you will be and are welcome here. Again, I have enjoyed your contributions to the other topics on this forum.

Mike

by Guest Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:35 pm

Thanks Mike! Smile

I was beginning to think that folks here hated me. That really means a lot.

PS: I started a new thread as I didn't want to derail this one.

Thanks again though.

by Guest Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:41 pm

Bro you know where I stand

by Kerrick Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:46 pm

RavenWolf wrote:Thanks Mike! I was beginning to think that folks here hated me. That really means a lot.

PS: I started a new thread as I didn't want to derail this one.

Thanks again though.

This one was derailed from the get-go so no worries there. Wink

I want everyone to feel welcome here and not be pushed away. I think you should definitely stay!!! You've been a kind, respectful, and engaging member here and have been a positive part of this community! That being said, if you expect to be in agreement with everyone here... the internet is probably not for you. There will be differences of opinion, ESPECIALLY when it comes to faith, beliefs, and spirituality. We've had to remove the Theology section from this board because things got too nasty between people and we try to minimize accusatory arguments of claiming each others as heretics and whatnot. However, the truth of the matter is that God's Word is not blatantly obvious or easily discernible. There ARE going to be disagreements and that's ok. We are called to correct our fellow siblings in Christ and do so lovingly. I don't know much about Osteen but enough to know that he's pretty controversial, so there's bound to be some differing opinions. If you feel he or someone else is being unfairly judged, I'd encourage you to speak up and kindly ask folks to be more respectful. And as a friendly reminder, Osteen - just like every other pastor out there - is human and fallible too. We as Christians should be constantly looking directly to God's Word to confirm what is taught to us because even the most solidly rooted teachers may slip up from time to time.

Anyways, I could go on and on, but here's the gist: Please stay. I love you

But it's unrealistic to expect everyone to agree with you theologically (and beyond that, what a boring place it'd be if that were the case!). We have 1021 registered users here and probably 1022 different beliefs. When those differing beliefs are mean-spirited, unnecessarily accusatory, or disrespectful, say something about it. Also feel free to let us mods know and we'll try to help the situation get resolved too. flower

by metaldude Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:00 pm

You gotta stay. I've been on an old school Anthrax kick that I'm holding you fully responsible for. Metal 1

by Guest Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:10 pm

metaldude wrote:You gotta stay. I've been on an old school Anthrax kick that I'm holding you fully responsible for.

Trump vs Carson on religion ? - Page 4 Anthrax

by Guest Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:20 pm

Aaron C wrote:Bro you know where I stand

and thanks for that!

Love your new signature by the way! Thumbs up

by deathisgain Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:54 am

Kerrick wrote:
We have 1021 registered users here and probably 1022 different beliefs.

Wait, where does the extra one come from?

by Guest Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:19 am

I thought he forgot to add a 0 in there geek

by d@v!d Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:35 am

Peter who was Vaak wrote:Here's trump on asking God for forgiveness: http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/18/trump-ive-never-asked-god-for-forgiveness-for-anything-video/

Long and short of it: yeah, his stance isn't surprising. Anyone who has listened to him for five minutes can guess where he stands and why it was a shame of the TBN crew to say what they did.

I didn't take the time to look at this link until yesterday. Wow! How damning! Norman Vincent Peale!? ...adds a whole other level of latent irony to Thomas' quip about judgment and glass houses. Wink

I need some help here guys as I just vomited my lungs.... Ha!

For those of you wondering what I'm raving about.
http://www.letusreason.org/Poptea2.htm

Back to politics. This really makes me question Trumps sincerity even more. He seems like a hack. I'm beginning to think he's one of those types whose gross contribution to his bottom line is nothing more than his ability to talk and motivate others to do the heavy lifting and get things done, as he isn't able to do any of the lifting himself.

by messiaen77 Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:03 am

deathisgain wrote:
Kerrick wrote:
We have 1021 registered users here and probably 1022 different beliefs.

Wait, where does the extra one come from?

One of the voices in my head believes differently from the rest of us.

by Kerrick Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:55 pm

^Oh shoot, you too? I need to change that to 1023 then... What a Face

by messiaen77 Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:56 pm

Since this is Trump vs. Carson on religion, how about we look at some of Carson's views...

"As a Christian, I am not the least bit offended by the beliefs of Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Mormons, and so forth. In fact, I am delighted to know that they believe in something that is more likely to make them into a reasonable human being, as long as they don't allow the religion to be distorted by those seeking power and wealth."

"“Probably the biggest [difference] — I’ve realized where my success has come from and I don’t in anyway deny my faith in God,” Carson said. He then quoted a Bible verse: “‘By humility and the fear of the Lord are riches and honor and life’ and that’s a very big part of who I am. I don’t get that impression with [Trump]. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t get that.'"

"
When Ben Carson was 14, he tried to stab his friend to death.

At the time, Carson, now known as the Republican party’s neurosurgeon-cum-presidential candidate, was growing up in Detroit, Michigan. Struggling with the challenges of a poverty-stricken childhood, he developed what he called “a horrible temper problem,” and regularly lashed out at others. Things hit a boiling point one day in ninth grade, when he and a friend got into a dispute over which radio station to listen to. Carson snapped: In a fit of rage, he drew a large camping knife and jabbed it directly at his friend’s abdomen.

Thankfully, the blade broke when it struck the boy’s belt buckle, and Carson’s friend fled the scene terrified but unharmed. Left alone, Carson was suddenly overcome with shame, and locked himself in a bathroom to process. He turned to the thing he believed would comfort him the most — the Bible — and read from Proverbs 16:32: “One who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and one whose temper is controlled than one who captures a city.”

When I came out of the bathroom after 3 hours I was a different person.

“I stayed in there for hours reading and contemplating and praying, and I came to an understanding during that time that to react, to lash out, was not really a sign of strength,” Carson told PBS in 2008. “When I came out of the bathroom after three hours I was a different person, and I never had a problem with temper since then.'"

by d@v!d Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:45 pm

messiaen77 wrote:Since this is Trump vs. Carson on religion, how about we look at some of Carson's views...

"As a Christian, I am not the least bit offended by the beliefs of Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Mormons, and so forth. In fact, I am delighted to know that they believe in something that is more likely to make them into a reasonable human being, as long as they don't allow the religion to be distorted by those seeking power and wealth."

"“Probably the biggest [difference] — I’ve realized where my success has come from and I don’t in anyway deny my faith in God,” Carson said. He then quoted a Bible verse: “‘By humility and the fear of the Lord are riches and honor and life’ and that’s a very big part of who I am. I don’t get that impression with [Trump]. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t get that.'"

"
When Ben Carson was 14, he tried to stab his friend to death.

At the time, Carson, now known as the Republican party’s neurosurgeon-cum-presidential candidate, was growing up in Detroit, Michigan. Struggling with the challenges of a poverty-stricken childhood, he developed what he called “a horrible temper problem,” and regularly lashed out at others. Things hit a boiling point one day in ninth grade, when he and a friend got into a dispute over which radio station to listen to. Carson snapped: In a fit of rage, he drew a large camping knife and jabbed it directly at his friend’s abdomen.

Thankfully, the blade broke when it struck the boy’s belt buckle, and Carson’s friend fled the scene terrified but unharmed. Left alone, Carson was suddenly overcome with shame, and locked himself in a bathroom to process. He turned to the thing he believed would comfort him the most — the Bible — and read from Proverbs 16:32: “One who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and one whose temper is controlled than one who captures a city.”

When I came out of the bathroom after 3 hours I was a different person.

“I stayed in there for hours reading and contemplating and praying, and I came to an understanding during that time that to react, to lash out, was not really a sign of strength,” Carson told PBS in 2008. “When I came out of the bathroom after three hours I was a different person, and I never had a problem with temper since then.'"

Interesting comparison. I sometimes find him playing up his Christianity in the election bothersome, but it doesn't detract from my admiration overall. Someone saying they are Christian isn't a big criteria for me in politics. People acting like a Christian is. I saw the "Gifted Hands" movie and know that he came from very humble background. I find his story very inspiring. I still trust that he's in this race because he wants to serve the country and not himself, not like most politicians do.

by messiaen77 Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:19 pm

Yes. That is why I think at the end of the day, Trump's campaign is going to lose its broad support. Right now, only 1 in 4 Republicans support Trump out of the field of what, 15 candidates? I wonder what will happen when Pataki, Jindal, Santorum, Christie, Fiorina, Huckabee, Paul, Kasich, and Bush drop out? Where will their supporters go? To Trump, I don't really see that happening.

by Guest Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:16 pm

I don't think it matters anyway. Hillary will be the next president of the USA. She has FAR more support from her base than ANY Republican currently does. Just saying. Smile

by d@v!d Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:17 pm

messiaen77 wrote:Yes. That is why I think at the end of the day, Trump's campaign is going to lose its broad support. Right now, only 1 in 4 Republicans support Trump out of the field of what, 15 candidates? I wonder what will happen when Pataki, Jindal, Santorum, Christie, Fiorina, Huckabee, Paul, Kasich, and Bush drop out? Where will their supporters go? To Trump, I don't really see that happening.

That's logical and optimistic. I tend to be somewhat cynical. The thing that kind of rocked my world was watching the Romney / Obama 'debate' where the 10s of thousand cheered Obama responding to Romney's charge that the US needed to be more fiscally responsible and may need to cut things near and dear such as PBS. Obama's retort was saying 'oh, I didn't Big Bird was the cause of our problems' brought overwhelming cheers. I was really dismayed watching that.

The same where I see thousands cheering hanging off of every one of Trumps similarly insubstantial comments.

Seeing so many (conservative) Americans cheering and supporting such superficiality has me concerned the more substantive candidates like Carson will still be drowned out by the vacuous mob.

by messiaen77 Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:21 pm

Wow, I don't think anyone has ever called me logical and optimistic before. Should I be offended? Laughing

by messiaen77 Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:42 am

Well now ol' Brother Donny is gonna make sure we all keep Christ in Christmas...

http://time.com/4106020/starbucks-holiday-cup-donald-trump-boycott/?xid=time_socialflow_facebook

by d@v!d Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:18 am

messiaen77 wrote:Well now ol' Brother Donny is gonna make sure we all keep Christ in Christmas...

http://time.com/4106020/starbucks-holiday-cup-donald-trump-boycott/?xid=time_socialflow_facebook

UGH.

So, do you know is that where this is all coming from. The last couple of days, I've seen reports saying that Christians are upset with SB for their plain red cup. Is Donny the root?

Cada vez más, he bother's me. But it's good to see this. It gives me something to know him by.

by messiaen77 Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:06 am

No, some idiot put up a video on Youtube of him staging a nutty over the fact that Starbucks cups are just plain red cups with no snowflakes or trees or ornaments on it--an indicator that they are taking another step in the "war on Christmas" by not even acknowledging it. After all, they already refuse to say "Merry Christmas", so when he went to order his coffee and the barista asked for his name, he told them it was Merry Christmas so they would write it on the cup. Now in the video he is encouraging other Christians to do the same thing and post the pictures with a hashtag. I'd post a link to the video, but honestly, I don't want to encourage more views for him. Anyway, the media picked up on it and, well, you know the media--instant controversy.

by Peter who was Vaak Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:46 am

Why are we supposed to care whether a non-Christian company who promotes gay marriage says "Merry Christmas" or not? That's dumb.

by Peter who was Vaak Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:44 am

by Kerrick Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:28 pm

I was just talking to my coworkers (who aren't Christian) about this and they were saying how they've been seeing all this complaining about complaining but have not seen anyone who is actually frustrated with Starbucks over this.

Right after the conversation, I saw this posted on your FB and had to share it with them. Haha so good!

by messiaen77 Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:06 pm

Peter who was Vaak wrote:Why are we supposed to care whether a non-Christian company who promotes gay marriage says "Merry Christmas" or not? That's dumb.

Exactly.

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