Trump vs Carson on religion ?

by sentient 6 Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:45 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/10/24/donald-trump-seeks-a-sharp-a-contrast-with-ben-carsons-seventh-day-adventist-faith/

I never really cared for Trump as a candidate, and now after reading what he said about his " religious " views vs Carsons, I really don't like the guy. This is the quote that really screams " fake " and " playing politics " ...

"I love Iowa. And, look, I don't have to say it, I'm Presbyterian," said Trump. "Can you believe it? Nobody believes I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. Boy, that's down the middle of the road folks, in all fairness. I mean, Seventh-day Adventist, I don't know about. I just don't know about."

Sure, there is much about Adventism that I disagree with, but I believe Carson is 10 times more sincere in his faith than Trump. Too me, Trump is just playing the religion card because he knows that's a large part of the base. All I got from Trump was that for whatever reason " Presbyterianism " is his religion of choice.

by Hardcore Christian Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:52 pm

I totally think Carson is the best candidate

by Guest Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:36 am

Trump scares me.

by Peter who was Vaak Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:52 am

No way, TBN chose trump! They said he's carrying the mantle of Jesus!

Yeah, I'm liking Carson more and more. Also, there's something out there of trump saying he's never felt the need to ask for forgiveness.

by alldatndensum Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:24 am

I like Carson, but I don't care for the fact that he's for blanket amnesty for illegals, favors Affirmative Action, and really has no plan for foreign policy. I don't care for Trump, but at least he is talking about a lot of the points that conservative voters want to discuss. I believe Carson is only where he is now because many folks will see him as the "Christian candidate" and vote strictly for shared faith and not listen to what he really has to say about issues.

If Trump wants to seal the deal, he should get Carson as his VP. The two of them together would definitely give the Republican and conservative (not the same anymore) voter bases a ticket they could support together.

by d@v!d Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:26 am

sentient 6 wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/10/24/donald-trump-seeks-a-sharp-a-contrast-with-ben-carsons-seventh-day-adventist-faith/

I never really cared for Trump as a candidate, and now after reading what he said about his " religious " views vs Carsons, I really don't like the guy. This is the quote that really screams " fake " and " playing politics " ...

"I love Iowa. And, look, I don't have to say it, I'm Presbyterian," said Trump. "Can you believe it? Nobody believes I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. Boy, that's down the middle of the road folks, in all fairness. I mean, Seventh-day Adventist, I don't know about. I just don't know about."

Sure, there is much about Adventism that I disagree with, but I believe Carson is 10 times more sincere in his faith than Trump. Too me, Trump is just playing the religion card because he knows that's a large part of the base. All I got from Trump was that for whatever reason " Presbyterianism " is his religion of choice.

Bingo!

Yes, this is just politics. Have you seen the video of him 'praying' with the TBN crew? *gag*

Your comment reminds me of the last election where we had a mormon who was more 'christian' than the self proclaimed 'evangelical'. Yet, they were trying to deride him on the conservative voting base reminding us that Mit was a heretic(which he is).

Ben Carson is an amazing man and has a much more compelling story that Mr Trump. I like Trump as a man OK, but not as my president. One thing that bothers me about Trump besides this story is that he doesn't speak well. He just rambles and never completes a thought. It seems to me like he's constantly shooting from the hip. I want a president that knows what he's doing and not trusting that he can bluster though difficult situations. I think that if Trump wins that he'll find out that he bit off more than he can chew.

Carson comes across very premeditated and precise in his comments. He also anti-PC freedom. That is so refreshing.

by messiaen77 Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:35 am

The one thing that really bothers me about Trump is, well, everything. In a process where civility and statesmanship are rare anyway, Trump has somehow found a way to lower the bar even more. He is a vile, hate-filled egomaniac who is thriving in a hate-filled society.

by Peter who was Vaak Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:54 am

Until he starts calling liberals terrorists, Trump is still more decent than Obama. Obama precipitated all this.
EDIT:
Anyone who attacks Trump but also voted for Obama is a rank hypocrite. Obama has been using government resources to go after conservatives with the IRS, he's used his voice to attack private citizens like that guy in Iowa was it, and suddenly language is a problem? Grow up. Your side has perfected tyranny and you voted for it. Want to complain about tone? Look in the mirror: this started with your vote.

by Guest Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:18 am

I think theyre all crooks and quacks

by Grindboy Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:30 pm

We can't handle theology but politics will probably go awesome.

by Peter who was Vaak Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:18 pm

To be fair, we'd gone a few years without any serious arguments in the realm of politics. Though, I never went into the theology realm because I wasn't interested, but now I am.
Regardless, hearing complaints about civility from a person he disagrees with politically while having voted for the man who has done more to hurt race relations, hurt fellow Americans, and all but declared himself an enemy of Christianity through words and actions reeks of insincerity and is the absolute worst of modern politics (do what I say, not what I do).

by Guest Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:35 pm

Grindboy wrote:We can't handle theology but politics will probably go awesome.

by ThomasEversole Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:45 pm

Aaron C wrote:I think theyre all crooks and quacks

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

My only question is, how many people are not voting?

sentient 6 wrote:
I never really cared for Trump as a candidate, and now after reading what he said about his " religious " views vs Carsons, I really don't like the guy. This is the quote that really screams " fake " and " playing politics "
...
Too me, Trump is just playing the religion card because he knows that's a large part of the base. All I got from Trump was that for whatever reason " Presbyterianism " is his religion of choice.

d@v!d wrote:
Yes, this is just politics. Have you seen the video of him 'praying' with the TBN crew? *gag*

You two should be ashamed for judging this man.
You don't know where his heart is.

by Guest Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:49 pm

To be honest, I'm not a fan of Trump or Carson.

I guess I'll have to vote for Hillary!

Very Happy

by Peter who was Vaak Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:54 pm

Here's trump on asking God for forgiveness: http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/18/trump-ive-never-asked-god-for-forgiveness-for-anything-video/

Long and short of it: yeah, his stance isn't surprising. Anyone who has listened to him for five minutes can guess where he stands and why it was a shame of the TBN crew to say what they did.

by exo Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:18 pm

Grindboy wrote:We can't handle theology but politics will probably go awesome.

Much like topics of a theological bent (which, if you've been paying attention over the last 6-8 months, HAVE been allowed to proceed with caution and care), we'll be keeping a weather eye on the horizon......

by messiaen77 Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:59 am

ThomasEversole wrote:
Aaron C wrote:I think theyre all crooks and quacks

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

My only question is, how many people are not voting?

sentient 6 wrote:
I never really cared for Trump as a candidate, and now after reading what he said about his " religious " views vs Carsons, I really don't like the guy. This is the quote that really screams " fake " and " playing politics "
...
Too me, Trump is just playing the religion card because he knows that's a large part of the base. All I got from Trump was that for whatever reason " Presbyterianism " is his religion of choice.

d@v!d wrote:
Yes, this is just politics. Have you seen the video of him 'praying' with the TBN crew? *gag*

You two should be ashamed for judging this man.
You don't know where his heart is.

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. That's all I've got to say.

by messiaen77 Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:00 am

Peter who was Vaak wrote:Until he starts calling liberals terrorists, Trump is still more decent than Obama. Obama precipitated all this.
EDIT:
Anyone who attacks Trump but also voted for Obama is a rank hypocrite. Obama has been using government resources to go after conservatives with the IRS, he's used his voice to attack private citizens like that guy in Iowa was it, and suddenly language is a problem? Grow up. Your side has perfected tyranny and you voted for it. Want to complain about tone? Look in the mirror: this started with your vote.

I'm just gonna assume this was a general comment that was not directed at me personally and move on.

by WildWorld Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:34 am

Blackie Lawless for President 2016!

(the sad part is that im actuallly half-serious about that)

by messiaen77 Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:10 am

WildWorld wrote:Blackie Lawless for President 2016!

(the sad part is that im actuallly half-serious about that)

As long as you aren't for Kanye in 2020, I'm ok with it.

by d@v!d Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:33 am

ThomasEversole wrote:
sentient 6 wrote:
I never really cared for Trump as a candidate, and now after reading what he said about his " religious " views vs Carsons, I really don't like the guy. This is the quote that really screams " fake " and " playing politics "
...
Too me, Trump is just playing the religion card because he knows that's a large part of the base. All I got from Trump was that for whatever reason " Presbyterianism " is his religion of choice.

d@v!d wrote:
Yes, this is just politics. Have you seen the video of him 'praying' with the TBN crew? *gag*

You two should be ashamed for judging this man.
You don't know where his heart is.

Really Thomas? We can disagree, but I should be ashamed of making a judgment? Puah!

There's a time and place for everything. Running for public office entails being judged by the voters.

So, let's take this beyond politics as I expect a man of your intelligence doesn't need me to further illustrate my last point.
Spiritual judgment then: why in the world would any Christian be parading around with the TBN crew? What does light have to do with darkness? What, is Donald Trump taking time out of his busy schedule to campaign for president to be a missionary to the lost? Do you really think that Trump is ministering to them? I don't. It seems more like he is getting their approval to try to get their voter base: politics. When have you ever heard Trump preach the gospel or even remotely elude to it in any of his shows? No, Trump is becoming that which is supposed to be saving us from, a politician. Believe it or not, I'm OK with him or anyone running for office being political; it's a necessary evil. But, don't call me out for calling a duck a duck. And that's just what he is doing when he plays the religious card.

BTW, here's the event that I'm referencing.

**gag**

by d@v!d Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:36 am

messiaen77 wrote:
ThomasEversole wrote:
Aaron C wrote:I think theyre all crooks and quacks

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

My only question is, how many people are not voting?

sentient 6 wrote:
I never really cared for Trump as a candidate, and now after reading what he said about his " religious " views vs Carsons, I really don't like the guy. This is the quote that really screams " fake " and " playing politics "
...
Too me, Trump is just playing the religion card because he knows that's a large part of the base. All I got from Trump was that for whatever reason " Presbyterianism " is his religion of choice.

d@v!d wrote:
Yes, this is just politics. Have you seen the video of him 'praying' with the TBN crew? *gag*

You two should be ashamed for judging this man.
You don't know where his heart is.
Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. That's all I've got to say.

Amen!

by ThomasEversole Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:34 pm

d@v!d wrote:
Really Thomas? We can disagree, but I should be ashamed of making a judgment? Puah!

There's a time and place for everything. Running for public office entails being judged by the voters.

Running for public office entails being judged by the voters over political matters,
not matters of faith or the heart.

I'm not going to brow beat you or anyone with the piles of scripture verses against judging others, but just make a few points.

There's a huge difference between making an observation, and flat out JUDGING someone.
There's a huge difference between judging someone (taking their inventory) and keeping it to yourself...
...and again, a huge difference between judging someone and broadcasting your conclusion in a public forum for everyone to see.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that this is sinning, but it's certainly tacky and in bad form.
I would also say its a major ingredient to how "Christian venom" is made and wreaks of spending time "staring into people's houses".

Regarding the video, I see nothing wrong with it. I actually watched it twice trying to figure out what was wretched about it.
Is that he's even there which is nauseating? Is there an issue with the people praying for him?
Are you actually investing in the YouTube comments?

by d@v!d Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:59 pm

ThomasEversole wrote:
d@v!d wrote:
Really Thomas? We can disagree, but I should be ashamed of making a judgment? Puah!

There's a time and place for everything. Running for public office entails being judged by the voters.

Running for public office entails being judged by the voters over political matters,
not matters of faith or the heart.

I'm not going to brow beat you or anyone with the piles of scripture verses against judging others, but just make a few points.

There's a huge difference between making an observation, and flat out JUDGING someone.
There's a huge difference between judging someone (taking their inventory) and keeping it to yourself...
...and again, a huge difference between judging someone and broadcasting your conclusion in a public forum for everyone to see.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that this is sinning, but it's certainly tacky and in bad form.
I would also say its a major ingredient to how "Christian venom" is made and wreaks of spending time "staring into people's houses".

Regarding the video, I see nothing wrong with it. I actually watched it twice trying to figure out what was wretched about it.
Is that he's even there which is nauseating? Is there an issue with the people praying for him?
Are you actually investing in the YouTube comments?

Thanks for the response. I appreciate you taking your time to explain to me where you think I may be going wrong.

"Running for public office entails being judged by the voters over political matters, not matters of faith or the heart." Yet that is exactly what Mr. Trump is doing making that comment about Carson and furthermore appearing with the pagans at TBN. There's nothing ambiguous about what he is doing or saying that makes my observations or judgements of what I have observed wrong. Am I condemning him to hell? No. I was just saying that he is being political and playing the religious card, and doing a very poor job at that which makes me not care for him as a candidate, which puts things back into the sphere of politics. I really don't think I crossed any ethical lines in what I have said.

About the video: there is nothing wrong with Trump having people pray over him. The issue is who is praying over him? They are pagans. If you want to pretend they are Christians, that's up to you, but it disgusts me to see any man showing such a lack of discernment moseying up to such types just to secure some votes. I would react the same if he were in a video with satanic priests praying spilling a little chicken blood dancing the hokey pokey or whatever they do just to get some votes. I'm not saying it's wrong. I do realize that what he does is done for political expediency, but it still retrieves a **gag** from my bosom.

It's like when the Pope reached out to the 'protestants' in 2014. To whom did he reach out? It wasn't the Lutherans or the Presbyterians, but one of the oldest and biggest players in the prosperity sect, Copeland. No discernment at all from this Pope(as if anyone should expect it.) Doesn't he even know history? Why reach out to a heretical group that holds little more than 50 years of history, when it was Luther and Calvin that spearheaded the revolt 500 years ago? **gag**

by ThomasEversole Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:45 pm

The people at TBN are pagans?
You lost me David.

I don't watch TBN, though I'm familiar with what it is... and I don't see any evidence that they are pagans? I'm not sure if you intended to use that term in a derogatory manner, or if there's something I'm not aware of?

The information online definitely does not point to them being pagan.

Either way, I feel like I'm trying to convey to you how (for lack of better words) ugly it is to rampantly judge people, and you're trying to convey to me how crooked these people are that you're judging.

I'm not interested in what Trump or Copeland say because I don't listen to them. I do listen to you, because you're here, and I don't want to see you judge me or anyone else here the same way you judge them.

....after all, the judging premise works just like the gossip one. "If people will gossip to you, they'll gossip about you"

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