New interview

Luke Easter wrote:

Tourniguy wrote:Was there ever a time when you listened to a Tourniquet song (or album) and thought "oh god, this is really good"?

The ones I did? No. Once they were finished I didn't really listen to them that much, and when I did I always heard things that could have been different or better. That's not to say I don't like the work. The ones recorded before i joined? Of course. Especially Pathogenic.

TZ75 wrote:Are you a fan of Trixter’s first album?

Some of it. The majority of the songs are solid, well constructed, hooky pop rock. The singles that charted deserved the attention they got. But the album production isn't great. I know there were resons for that, but that makes me less a fan of it. But I do like it.

Artists are usually very critical of their own work. Many claim to never listen after it’s recorded. 


Trixter has a very poppy Bon Jovi inspired sound on the first album. When I hear it on the satellite radio, I could immediately imagine Luke’s voice.

Luke has said he doesn’t plan to write or record any metal style music in the foreseeable future (unless he’s asked to record vocals by someone). But does that include melodic hard-rock? I do believe there is a difference in most cases. A band like Boston for example… they had that cutting guitar sound, but it wasn’t metal. Is there a middle ground for you to mess with? Also Boston’s choice of chords and song structure is not metal. It’s very upbeat and “happy”.

Not sure if you like the band Cinderella… but they’re also a good example of hard-rock that had teetered into the metal on the first album, but are known for their blues rock edge. Plus they have one of the greatest ballads ever written!

How many times did you perform Spectrophobic Dementia, and are you a fan of that song? 

It’s one of my favorites on the POD album.

Okay. Here is a REALLY good question for ya Luke.

In all your years in the "CCM industry", did you ever experience anything from anther artist, musician, band, "Christian" record label, etc that made you disillusioned or offended in some way? 

For instance, I personally worked in media ministry for over ten years and let me tell you: I saw things and witnessed things that made me lose sleep at night. Financial irresponsibility, moral indiscretions, theological compromises, slander, backbiting, you name it.... EVERYTHING you can think of.... total hypocrisy. On an Elmer Gantry or Marjoe Gortner level (if you get that reference)

(not saying I'm perfect either ok?)

But, if I told you the televangelist I worked for, you would instantly know who he is. I'm from Atlanta, GA if you want a hint.

Not asking you to gossip or anything, but was there anything that shocked you or made you very disenchanted with it all ("Christian" music, etc).... and did those experience help you evolve as a person or made adjustments theologically or spiritually to sort of "make sense" of what you saw? anything that made you want to give up on it all on go "secular" or drop the name "Christian" because of it? I did for over ten years....

A former member of Joe Christmas, Spudgun, etc. signed to Tooth & Nail, etc told me some stories that are just down right shocking.... (not now, but back when he told me the stories I was super disappointed, doesn't bother me anymore YEARS later...)

Drugs, alcohol abuse, promiscuity, etc.

Was there one experience or story in particular that stands out in your mind to this day and makes you cringe?

I can think of a few in my own life in the Christian industry that are just down right disgusting...

(and I'm sure you can probably think of a few inspiring stories as well....)

TZ75 wrote:Luke has said he doesn’t plan to write or record any metal style music in the foreseeable future (unless he’s asked to record vocals by someone). But does that include melodic hard-rock? I do believe there is a difference in most cases. A band like Boston for example… they had that cutting guitar sound, but it wasn’t metal. Is there a middle ground for you to mess with? Also Boston’s choice of chords and song structure is not metal. It’s very upbeat and “happy”.

Metal and hard rock, although there is some overlap, are two different animals. I am very much a hard rock dude, and I do want to lean into that a bit on the next record. 

TZ75 wrote:Not sure if you like the band Cinderella… but they’re also a good example of hard-rock that had teetered into the metal on the first album, but are known for their blues rock edge. Plus they have one of the greatest ballads ever written!

I love Cinderella, especially the Long Cold Winter album. More bluesy than I'd ever want to be, but killer band. Great songs. Tom's a beast.

TZ75 wrote:How many times did you perform Spectrophobic Dementia, and are you a fan of that song? 

It’s one of my favorites on the POD album.

"Spectrophobic..." was a staple of our live set my first tour. If memory serves, it was usually song two or three. I have no idea how many times we performed it, but I know we never performed it again after the run of shows for the Pathogenic... album. It was always a lot of fun to do.

jaydeecrawson wrote:Okay. Here is a REALLY good question for ya Luke.

In all your years in the "CCM industry", did you ever experience anything from anther artist, musician, band, "Christian" record label, etc that made you disillusioned or offended in some way? 

If you stick around any scene long enough you'll find people or things that will disappoint you.

jaydeecrawson wrote:For instance, I personally worked in media ministry for over ten years and let me tell you: I saw things and witnessed things that made me lose sleep at night. Financial irresponsibility, moral indiscretions, theological compromises, slander, backbiting, you name it.... EVERYTHING you can think of.... total hypocrisy. On an Elmer Gantry or Marjoe Gortner level (if you get that reference)

(not saying I'm perfect either ok?)

But, if I told you the televangelist I worked for, you would instantly know who he is. I'm from Atlanta, GA if you want a hint.

I have been involved in church work at a staff level before, and all i can really say is this: i was more disillusioned by that world than the CCM world. The difference being that the church folk pretend they're not who they know you know they are, and the music folk don't pretend so much, for the most part. And I say that totally knowing that I have likely hurt/disappointed/disillusioned others in both worlds. Like you, I'm not perfect either.

I'm guessing you worked for one of the Stanleys.

jaydeecrawson wrote:Not asking you to gossip or anything, but was there anything that shocked you or made you very disenchanted with it all ("Christian" music, etc).... and did those experience help you evolve as a person or made adjustments theologically or spiritually to sort of "make sense" of what you saw? anything that made you want to give up on it all on go "secular" or drop the name "Christian" because of it? I did for over ten years....

A former member of Joe Christmas, Spudgun, etc. signed to Tooth & Nail, etc told me some stories that are just down right shocking.... (not now, but back when he told me the stories I was super disappointed, doesn't bother me anymore YEARS later...)

Drugs, alcohol abuse, promiscuity, etc.

Was there one experience or story in particular that stands out in your mind to this day and makes you cringe?

I can think of a few in my own life in the Christian industry that are just down right disgusting...

I've met people I looked up to who were not very nice people. I've met people I wasn't a fan of who changed my mind because they were kind and genuine. I've seen folks with kind gracious hearts, who love Jesus and want to make others know about His love for us who smoke and in the right circumstances could make a sailor blush. And I've seen the most seemingly pious, outwardly "perfect" folks who have nothing but cynical contempt for their audience. But with that said, I can't say there are any big incidents that would make me cringe. I suppose that's one of the upshots of not having been full on road dogs like I would have liked when we were at our peak. The situations I can think of that still bug me, usually boil down to people in green rooms at festival who were rude to us for no reason. There are things about us, though, that when I think about them make me cringe. Again, none of us are perfect, and in my experience the ones trying too hard to convince you otherwise are usually the ones with the most to answer for.

jaydeecrawson wrote:(and I'm sure you can probably think of a few inspiring stories as well....)

The fact that there are people like the Disciple guys, or folks like Stayce from The Brave - that is inspiring. They are good people. They own their stuff, but they don't make excuses for it. And they support others in their endeavors. That's all too rare a thing in general, but especially in the CCM world.

Luke Easter wrote:

jaydeecrawson wrote:For instance, I personally worked in media ministry for over ten years and let me tell you: I saw things and witnessed things that made me lose sleep at night. Financial irresponsibility, moral indiscretions, theological compromises, slander, backbiting, you name it.... EVERYTHING you can think of.... total hypocrisy. On an Elmer Gantry or Marjoe Gortner level (if you get that reference)

(not saying I'm perfect either ok?)

But, if I told you the televangelist I worked for, you would instantly know who he is. I'm from Atlanta, GA if you want a hint.

I have been involved in church work at a staff level before, and all i can really say is this: i was more disillusioned by that world than the CCM world. The difference being that the church folk pretend they're not who they know you know they are, and the music folk don't pretend so much, for the most part. And I say that totally knowing that I have likely hurt/disappointed/disillusioned others in both worlds. Like you, I'm not perfect either.

I'm guessing you worked for one of the Stanleys.

Based on the clues, Creflo Dollar would fit better than the Stanleys IMO. Speculation/guessing, of course, but he fits "televangelist" better and I don't know Elmer Gantry but Marjoe was a (admitted) fraud faith healer, Stanleys are a long way from any of that. As noted we do all have our junk, but I don't think Stanleys are fake.

Grindboy wrote:

Luke Easter wrote:

jaydeecrawson wrote:For instance, I personally worked in media ministry for over ten years and let me tell you: I saw things and witnessed things that made me lose sleep at night. Financial irresponsibility, moral indiscretions, theological compromises, slander, backbiting, you name it.... EVERYTHING you can think of.... total hypocrisy. On an Elmer Gantry or Marjoe Gortner level (if you get that reference)

(not saying I'm perfect either ok?)

But, if I told you the televangelist I worked for, you would instantly know who he is. I'm from Atlanta, GA if you want a hint.

I have been involved in church work at a staff level before, and all i can really say is this: i was more disillusioned by that world than the CCM world. The difference being that the church folk pretend they're not who they know you know they are, and the music folk don't pretend so much, for the most part. And I say that totally knowing that I have likely hurt/disappointed/disillusioned others in both worlds. Like you, I'm not perfect either.

I'm guessing you worked for one of the Stanleys.

Based on the clues, Creflo Dollar would fit better than the Stanleys IMO. Speculation/guessing, of course, but he fits "televangelist" better and I don't know Elmer Gantry but Marjoe was a (admitted) fraud faith healer, Stanleys are a long way from any of that. As noted we do all have our junk, but I don't think Stanleys are fake.

Only reason I guessed the Stanleys is because they’re the only ones I could think of in Atlanta. I couldn’t tell you where Creflo Dollar is from. And I have no reason to think Andy or his dad are fakes. Marjoe, on the other hand…

Luke,

those were such mature, impressive answers. Thank you man. I re-read them several times....

As far as the televangelist I was employed with, while I was employed there, we acquired the "Family Network" and I was instantly exposed to dozens of Christian "personalities"... including the owner and President. I met Kirk Cameron, Todd Friel, Jerry Falwell, Rodney Howard Browne, Hank Hanegraff, Ravi Zaccharias, the Power Team (John Jacobs), Jay Bakker, etc etc. I was part of the TV crew, running camera, engineering, IT and had a close relationship with the Pres for several years... traveled with him on occasion and had a key to his home, etc.

Don't forget, Michael Youssef is in Atlanta too and so was Earl Paulk....

anyway.... this thread ain't about me.

I appreciate those amazing answers Luke. I'm impressed bro.

You said, "There are things about us, though, that when I think about them make me cringe"


Anything in particular you can think of? (I'm guessing just being human is enough!)

I have nothing to share. It would serve no purpose.

I like Charles Stanley’s preaching. He seems the real deal to me. His teaching is balanced and biblical. Just the fact that he’s a well known televangelist is all it takes to get a bad rap. By no means is he perfect, but he isn’t a charlatan like Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Robert Tilton, Creflo Dollar or (the worst) Peter Popoff. Joel Osteen also sets off the BS meter big time! 

Is there supposed to be a scandal with Stanley?

TZ75 wrote:I like Charles Stanley’s preaching. He seems the real deal to me. His teaching is balanced and biblical. Just the fact that he’s a well known televangelist is all it takes to get a bad rap. By no means is he perfect, but he isn’t a charlatan like Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Robert Tilton, Creflo Dollar or (the worst) Peter Popoff. Joel Osteen also sets off the BS meter big time! 

Is there supposed to be a scandal with Stanley?

if you count his divorce.... nah.... but there almost have been some scandals. lawyers and money keep it from ever leaking out of the board room.

but a ministry (business) that big is too BIG for just one man to keep track of....

but there is a teleprompter for his studio shoots and he's often cued from the control room on what to say (like Popoff, it's called an IFB), how to pray, how long to pray, what to wear, what to say, what to promote, etc. and many things are edited out...

for instance, once the CFO was shot in the audience wearing two different suits on the same show and he caught it at home when he was watching the sermon.... 

clear proof of the editor making a mistake and using crowd shots as a way to camouflage or hide an edit (something Stanley said that couldn't be aired all over the country or the world)

he preaches some messages multiple times and those are often edited together (like a band playing the same set three times and using the best songs for a live album.... Speak of the Devil by Ozzy for instance)

He also doesn't write his books. NONE of them. Ghost writers do that... either from Thomas Nelson or In Touch.

He also doesn't autograph all of his books... a machine does that or his secretary does... (kind of like when Gene Simmons from KISS taught his wife how to forge his autograph too)

It's a business. and that's how businesses and television / marketing work.

and those are just a few examples.... there are many more... worse ones. if I shared them, you wouldn't believe me and like Luke said: it wouldn't serve a purpose.

jaydeecrawson wrote:

TZ75 wrote:I like Charles Stanley’s preaching. He seems the real deal to me. His teaching is balanced and biblical. Just the fact that he’s a well known televangelist is all it takes to get a bad rap. By no means is he perfect, but he isn’t a charlatan like Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Robert Tilton, Creflo Dollar or (the worst) Peter Popoff. Joel Osteen also sets off the BS meter big time! 

Is there supposed to be a scandal with Stanley?

if you count his divorce.... nah.... but there almost have been some scandals. lawyers and money keep it from ever leaking out of the board room.

but a ministry (business) that big is too BIG for just one man to keep track of....

but there is a teleprompter for his studio shoots and he's often cued from the control room on what to say (like Popoff, it's called an IFB), how to pray, how long to pray, what to wear, what to say, what to promote, etc. and many things are edited out...

for instance, once the CFO was shot in the audience wearing two different suits on the same show and he caught it at home when he was watching the sermon.... 

clear proof of the editor making a mistake and using crowd shots as a way to camouflage or hide an edit (something Stanley said that couldn't be aired all over the country or the world)

he preaches some messages multiple times and those are often edited together (like a band playing the same set three times and using the best songs for a live album.... Speak of the Devil by Ozzy for instance)

He also doesn't write his books. NONE of them. Ghost writers do that... either from Thomas Nelson or In Touch.

He also doesn't autograph all of his books... a machine does that or his secretary does... (kind of like when Gene Simmons from KISS taught his wife how to forge his autograph too)

It's a business. and that's how businesses and television / marketing work.

and those are just a few examples.... there are many more... worse ones. if I shared them, you wouldn't believe me and like Luke said: it wouldn't serve a purpose.

No one’s perfect. Of coarse he has gotten help from his ministry colleagues. He isn’t Superman. Those instances you revealed are not that bad. Televised sermons shouldn’t be bad presentations. But he still is nothing like Popoff and the obvious liars. You think you’ll ever see Stanley selling “miracle water”? Some of these guys are blatant mockers if God.

Do you think that some of the average Joe pastors down the street don’t struggle with a porn addiction or drugs? It’s not just the big name guys.

I have a confession…

I’m a fan of the first three BulletBoys albums. Sure, Marq the singer can be obnoxious… but the music is great! Especially Mick Sweda’s guitar playing.


I know this appears to be off topic, but Luke likes Hair Metal (like I do)!

Luke, out of all the songs you've ever sung, which one did you enjoy singing the most?

For me, I LOVE Life Goes On, but Sideways just tops it for me.  Your vocals on the whole album are superb and you can really feel the connection to the lyrics, but those two are just at another level.

What do you remember about recording the ending for Trivializing the Momentous? The "he came to set the prison free..." part.

To me that's one of the most beautiful moments in all of Tourniquet's music. I'm interested in hearing about the triple harmony vocals. The guitar riff/melody in itself is very nice, and the initial vocals, the first time singing that line, is pretty. Just the type of melancholic vocal melody I like a lot. Then the vocal line comes again, this time with an added vocal harmony and it gets even better. But then it comes once more, but now there is a third vocal harmony and wow that sounds so good!

How did that happen? Were those harmonies already written for it long before you came to record them? Did you have a say on what the harmonies should be? Do you have any anecdotes about that recording session?

The last line with your voice tripled in harmony might be my second favorite Luke moment in Tourniquet, and it's one of my favorite moments in Tourniquet music in general.

Fundy wrote:Luke, out of all the songs you've ever sung, which one did you enjoy singing the most?

For me, I LOVE Life Goes On, but Sideways just tops it for me.  Your vocals on the whole album are superb and you can really feel the connection to the lyrics, but those two are just at another level.

 All of them have moments that make them special. "Life Goes On" was the last song written for that project, and it took a bit to get it written. I knew I wanted that feel and that uplift on the opening track, but I had no idea how it went or how to start writing it. When I did, the whole thing pretty much popped into my head in line for a flight. Kris and I started working on it a week or so later. "Sideways" I'd had for awhile. It was written in a different key because I couldn't figure out how to play the chords I was using in a different key. Kris helped make it what it is. "After I'm Gone" has those cool Whoa-Oh parts in the chorus that I'd always wanted to do. I could go on, but my point is that I love singing all of them for different reasons.

Airola wrote:What do you remember about recording the ending for Trivializing the Momentous? The "he came to set the prison free..." part.

To me that's one of the most beautiful moments in all of Tourniquet's music. I'm interested in hearing about the triple harmony vocals. The guitar riff/melody in itself is very nice, and the initial vocals, the first time singing that line, is pretty. Just the type of melancholic vocal melody I like a lot. Then the vocal line comes again, this time with an added vocal harmony and it gets even better. But then it comes once more, but now there is a third vocal harmony and wow that sounds so good!

How did that happen? Were those harmonies already written for it long before you came to record them? Did you have a say on what the harmonies should be? Do you have any anecdotes about that recording session?

The last line with your voice tripled in harmony might be my second favorite Luke moment in Tourniquet, and it's one of my favorite moments in Tourniquet music in general.

"Trivializing..." was recorded in the sessions for Acoustic Archives. Most of the acoustic stuff was done over a couple of days live in the studio. We were set up in the same room facing each other, with baffling and such to separate the mic signals and minimize bleed. We tracked those songs live, punching in when necessary if one of us made a mistake. Meaning, we'd stop the tape, roll back and start recording where the error was and continue to the end from there. There wasn't a lot of punching in for the live stuff; we'd been playing acoustic sets for a long time by that point and knew the material very well in that format.

The drums for "Trivializing..." were tracked before I got to LA for the session. I think maybe some of the rhythm guitars were as well. If Im remembering correctly, I went back to LA a week after doing the live songs to do the vocals for the new track. By that point the bulk of the guitars were done, with some lead guitar still needed, and bass and drums were finished. The session was pretty straightforward. Aaron and I did our tracks with the trade-off shouted vocals, then we moved on to the sung parts. The harmonies were not writen ahead of time. As with everything we did post-Vanishing Lessons, I had no idea how the song went or sounded until I got there to do vocals. We never had the vocal parts written beforehand. Ted might have an idea that he wanted certain parts to have harmonies or gimmicks, but it was just as common for that choice to be made in the session. I always had a hand in that part of the recording process. I would come up with harmonies at the mic, and sometimes they worked, sometimes we'd tweak thenm until they sounded right. Layering them the way they build in this song was a Ted idea. Im happy you dig it. It still trippy to know that something we did so long ago still has legs and is still interesting to people.

Luke Easter wrote:

Fundy wrote:Luke, out of all the songs you've ever sung, which one did you enjoy singing the most?

For me, I LOVE Life Goes On, but Sideways just tops it for me.  Your vocals on the whole album are superb and you can really feel the connection to the lyrics, but those two are just at another level.

 All of them have moments that make them special. "Life Goes On" was the last song written for that project, and it took a bit to get it written. I knew I wanted that feel and that uplift on the opening track, but I had no idea how it went or how to start writing it. When I did, the whole thing pretty much popped into my head in line for a flight. Kris and I started working on it a week or so later. "Sideways" I'd had for awhile. It was written in a different key because I couldn't figure out how to play the chords I was using in a different key. Kris helped make it what it is. "After I'm Gone" has those cool Whoa-Oh parts in the chorus that I'd always wanted to do. I could go on, but my point is that I love singing all of them for different reasons.

Airola wrote:What do you remember about recording the ending for Trivializing the Momentous? The "he came to set the prison free..." part.

To me that's one of the most beautiful moments in all of Tourniquet's music. I'm interested in hearing about the triple harmony vocals. The guitar riff/melody in itself is very nice, and the initial vocals, the first time singing that line, is pretty. Just the type of melancholic vocal melody I like a lot. Then the vocal line comes again, this time with an added vocal harmony and it gets even better. But then it comes once more, but now there is a third vocal harmony and wow that sounds so good!

How did that happen? Were those harmonies already written for it long before you came to record them? Did you have a say on what the harmonies should be? Do you have any anecdotes about that recording session?

The last line with your voice tripled in harmony might be my second favorite Luke moment in Tourniquet, and it's one of my favorite moments in Tourniquet music in general.

"Trivializing..." was recorded in the sessions for Acoustic Archives. Most of the acoustic stuff was done over a couple of days live in the studio. We were set up in the same room facing each other, with baffling and such to separate the mic signals and minimize bleed. We tracked those songs live, punching in when necessary if one of us made a mistake. Meaning, we'd stop the tape, roll back and start recording where the error was and continue to the end from there. There wasn't a lot of punching in for the live stuff; we'd been playing acoustic sets for a long time by that point and knew the material very well in that format.

The drums for "Trivializing..." were tracked before I got to LA for the session. I think maybe some of the rhythm guitars were as well. If Im remembering correctly, I went back to LA a week after doing the live songs to do the vocals for the new track. By that point the bulk of the guitars were done, with some lead guitar still needed, and bass and drums were finished. The session was pretty straightforward. Aaron and I did our tracks with the trade-off shouted vocals, then we moved on to the sung parts. The harmonies were not writen ahead of time. As with everything we did post-Vanishing Lessons, I had no idea how the song went or sounded until I got there to do vocals. We never had the vocal parts written beforehand. Ted might have an idea that he wanted certain parts to have harmonies or gimmicks, but it was just as common for that choice to be made in the session. I always had a hand in that part of the recording process. I would come up with harmonies at the mic, and sometimes they worked, sometimes we'd tweak thenm until they sounded right. Layering them the way they build in this song was a Ted idea. Im happy you dig it. It still trippy to know that something we did so long ago still has legs and is still interesting to people.

Who is the first talking voice that says: “Enough about you talking about me”? Is that Aaron?

TZ75 wrote:Who is the first talking voice that says: “Enough about you talking about me”? Is that Aaron?

That's a friend of ours. A guy called Eddie Cea.

Luke Easter wrote:

TZ75 wrote:Who is the first talking voice that says: “Enough about you talking about me”? Is that Aaron?

That's a friend of ours. A guy called Eddie Cea.

Interesting. Thanks!

I didn’t really think it sounded like Aaron… but I had to guess. He seems to have a type of accent.

Forgive me for not remembering his name… but is the large roadie guy still around? I remember seeing him at every Tourniquet gig I attended. He was featured on the Pushin’ Broom home video. 

There was also another guy that had a very long goatee beard that would be around. I think he took pictures.

TZ75 wrote:Forgive me for not remembering his name… but is the large roadie guy still around? I remember seeing him at every Tourniquet gig I attended. He was featured on the Pushin’ Broom home video. 

There was also another guy that had a very long goatee beard that would be around. I think he took pictures.

I think you mean our old road manager, Drew. He is still around. He has a sound and light company in SoCal. The other gentleman is Larry Bolen. Haven’t seen either of them in forever, but I love them dearly. A lot of years and miles and memories with those guys.

Luke Easter wrote:

TZ75 wrote:Forgive me for not remembering his name… but is the large roadie guy still around? I remember seeing him at every Tourniquet gig I attended. He was featured on the Pushin’ Broom home video. 

There was also another guy that had a very long goatee beard that would be around. I think he took pictures.

I think you mean our old road manager, Drew. He is still around. He has a sound and light company in SoCal. The other gentleman is Larry Bolen. Haven’t seen either of them in forever, but I love them dearly. A lot of years and miles and memories with those guys.

Yes! 

That’s them. Thanks! I’m glad they’re doing good.

When did you guys decide to go back to a heavy and intricate sound with MVOTR? Was Trivializing a prelude to that or at that point you had no clue of what to expect for the sound of a future album?

Tourniguy wrote:When did you guys decide to go back to a heavy and intricate sound with MVOTR? Was Trivializing a prelude to that or at that point you had no clue of what to expect for the sound of a future album?

Our trajectory, creatively speaking, at least as best I remember, was fairly natural/organic. I joined, we did VL; it was a change, but aside form the lack of shouted vocals it was in line with what had come before but a little less thrashy. Carry... was a natural extension of VL, and kind of mined the same vein musically. Collected Works was it's own thing, and we hadn't really talked much - at least not any conversations I was a part of - about any clear direction at that point. Our deal with Frontline was over and we were focused on who we were going to work with next. By the time we got to Crawl, we were on a subsidiary of a major (Diadem/Benson became part of EMI) and the musical landscape had changed. Insted of trying to fit in by jumping on a trend, we used it as an opportunity to play to our strengths while stretching out a little bit and doing some stuff that wouldn't have fit on previous albums. By the time we did Acoustic Archives, the three of us were ready to do something really heavy again. "Trivializing..." wasnt a prelude to that, but it did help us get our deal with Metal Blade. They'd worked with us before (Psycho/POD days), and Bill (Metoyer, our longtime producer) worked in A&R there, but Crawl wasn't in their wheel house, and so they'd were skittish about signing us. When Bill played "Trivializing..." for Slagel, he was into it, and we wound up calling Metal Blade home for awhile.