Stryper band x Stryper reissues by Girder Music and the question about morality in business

Wildcat wrote:If you really boil it down, Michael is essentially claiming here that it’s immoral/unethical to release a product that he has no legal ownership of unless it’s with his permission and to his financial benefit. The way he put quotes around “believer” could even be interpreted as questioning the salvation of someone who apparently doesn’t agree with him on that point. While I understand that it could be frustrating for an artist to not own their back catalogue, this is a pretty extreme position that I find hard to justify.

I agree. 

He’s almost suggesting that a legit and legal business deal that he isn’t happy about somehow puts another person’s standing with God in question. That’s quite an ego…

Michael’s a flawed human like the rest of us. Only God knows what he has done in private or to other people. Should his actions be held against him? Nobody even questions his status as a believer. God knows the heart of Girder’s owner. I don’t feel anything was done maliciously to hurt Stryper’s profits. How many people are gonna buy those $20 gold disc remasters? I doubt very many. 

Scott Waters (a professed Christian man just like Mr. Sweet) said that Stryper’s management was contacted. If that is true, how is this unethical? I guess it just depends on who you believe. Kinda sad…

Maybe when the dusts settles and everyone cools off… Michael could write a song about this topic for his next solo album. 

I'm a big fan of Michael but sorry he doesn't seem to have a leg to stand on here.

"Michael is unhappy therefore Girder is unethical and wrong"... that's not really very convincing. I get that he's not pleased and feels Girder wronged him, but it's not real clear how. 

Just seems like sour grapes, and even more something that he should have addressed with them privately first rather than venting on the internet about it. I think he comes off looking kind of bad here.

My Awesome Timothy wrote:
It’s not a great image.

I was at this show Wrestlemania 14 lol


As for Michael, I am curious to know how long the rights to the albums have been available to purchase? Michael and Stryper missed their opportunity and they are upset but business is business

There's an article online where Michael signed deals for those records knowing that he had no rights to the music years after dealing with the same issue with their earlier albums. He has nothing to claim except stupidity in repeating a mistake.

I haven't read many of musician's memoirs or biographies, but I did read Michael Sweet's. I was really disappointed with his admitted disdain for alot of key people like his bandmates, family and legal reps. I've often wondered what relationship repairs have had to happen for the band to get back together after they all had read what Sweet wrote about them and shared with the general public!

To tie this in to the topic at hand: what Sweet is saying here seems consistent to me with how he treats so many people in his autobiography--not very nicely.

I was really disappointed reading his memoir. As a Christian you always hope for the best in your Christian heroes, and it not only painted a pretty poor picture of a good chunk of their band-life, but the Michael Sweet that he portrayed (which is the Michael Sweet he wanted to portray--it's his memoirs!) didn't seem like a very godly, kind person.

To maybe put a positive swing on things, I was much more encouraged after reading the autobiographies of Mustaine and Ellefson (although since then Ellefson has had more issues), and reading historical interviews with Alice Cooper, Brian Welch, etc. 

One of the lessons cemented by all of this is to not elevate my Christian heroes to God-like Status. I can appreciate their music, their talent, their contribution to Christianity without having to expect them to be perfect. I wouldn't want all my sins to be on public display either.

It is extremely dangerous when artists start moral debates about business issues towards fans. Because fans usually have no knowledge about the legal framework, contract contents and other agreements.
It's simply not up to these people to judge. It sounds to me like there was a communication problem. If indeed Girder contacted Stryper before the re-releases, that's a nice touch and shows respect for the artist and the music. If I'm reading this correctly, Scott (Waters) is directly involved through his graphic work, so I assume his claim is correct.
So it would be good to know what happened after that. Did Stryper's management fail and not communicate properly? Pure conjecture. But I believe that neither Michael Sweet nor Girder Music are simply lying about this.
And I would like to know if the fault is not rather with Stryper, if re-releases are planned, but they might have failed to communicate this early enough. But maybe they did and the old label just ignored it as long as there were no concrete license agreements on the table.
As I said: If you don't have all this background information you shouldn't just support and spread any boycott calls.

I bought the Stryper Girder Reissues. While they have the gold and black on the label side and don't have all the artwork in the insert for Murder By Bride and The Covering, Reborn includes the lyrics where the original  don't and the back has the band members with a yellow background much like the vinyl. The original Reborn CD has a dark grey background. These come with collectors cards, hype stickers abd all have jewel cases. I haven't listened to them yet for sound quality but overall they seem to be an improvement. For further details if a major Girder Music haul, you can watch my latest episode on my Soldier777 channel.

I think the reissues are legit, legal and well done.

Soldier777 wrote:I bought the Stryper Girder Reissues. While they have the gold and black on the label side and don't have all the artwork in the insert for Murder By Bride and The Covering, Reborn includes the lyrics where the original  don't and the back has the band members with a yellow background much like the vinyl. The original Reborn CD has a dark grey background. These come with collectors cards, hype stickers abd all have jewel cases. I haven't listened to them yet for sound quality but overall they seem to be an improvement. For further details if a major Girder Music haul, you can watch my latest episode on my Soldier777 channel.

I think the reissues are legit, legal and well done.

New Dale Thompson project? 

I go with Stryper on this.

It's all legal. Girder did nothing wrong on that aspect.  Where it gets a little slippery is Girder not talking directly with MS.  From what I understand MS and Girder have had previous dealings and have had direct contact with each other. They have spoken several times over the years, Girder had the opportunity for direct contact with MS, but he failed to do so this time. Why?  (speculation) Because he knew it wouldn't go over well?  Its too bad, because maybe they could have worked together to get these out and sell many more.

I also believe that MS stated that he had previous dealing with Girder that didn't go well and that he felt Girder was a bit underhanded on them. Not sure what those details are or what the deal entailed.

Either way, I'm not grabbing these. This whole "Gold disc" thing drives me crazy.  It does NOTHING to make the sound better. Supposedly it allows the CD to last longer. I've got standard silver CD's from 1982 that still play flawlessly to this day.  Gold disc to me just increase the price and allows their gross margin to grow at the expense of the consumer.

Here's the article I mentioned earlier. From what it says, Michael knew about this deal for a while.
http://metalsludge.tv/michael-sour-michael-sweet-unloads-on-indy-label-for-legally-licensing-stryper-back-catalog-and-implores-fans-not-to-buy-them/?fbclid=IwAR2OzJEkVuPSm9NeaTAs8huc6b5-Sed6BQ7nKvKOjQ3ve0kTrMhuL1LuNSo

One online blogger named Scott W. has noted on the official Girder Music Facebook thread promoting these Stryper reissues: “=AZVxrLsCvpO0JGkT0mbcPYnzLKaGxxUrh6tkt3BH-1YHc6ys2rddKwQn3_3TGyJaRWg5_7SfSOEZsEImvB_dKKCFKdDTk1tPpqM0atzWEYdEO2kH7KAduRxc83yte8qbt3UfkiqnuRewlof_hZsIfN-D&__tn__=R]-R]Girder Music contacted Sweets management. They have known for months. As well they were paid royalties for these releases.”

Another response from Brian G. reads as follows: “It’s been stated here multiple times by someone who actually works with Girder that the band’s management was involved in the licensing deal and that all royalties were paid. In order for it to be the “underhanded, behind the back” act that it’s been described as, the band’s management would have had to have been in on it. Which simply doesn’t make sense.”

Update:

Good to know that they worked it out.

I'd add to this discussion that in Europe, the personal connection between artist and work is also enshrined in the law. That connection apparently isn't that interesting in the US from a legal viewpoint, which makes it all the better than they came to an agreement after all.