Girder Music - How To Contact Them & Actually Get A Response

Has anyone actually been able to contact Girder Music and get a response?

I've been trying unsuccessfully for 6 days to get in touch with them about something related to an order.

No one responds.  I have tried the order e-mail address as well as their site portal.

I'm ready to call their business phone number if it gets to that point.     
In my 3rd note (just sent), I told them that if I do not hear from anyone by next week, I will have no choice but to file a BBB complaint.

I find this extremely annoying because meanwhile they send me multiple marketing e-mails each day.  

Are other Christian music companies this bad at communication?

Constantine wrote:Has anyone actually been able to contact Girder Music and get a response?

I've been trying unsuccessfully for 6 days to get in touch with them about something related to an order.

No one responds.  I have tried the order e-mail address as well as their site portal.

I'm ready to call their business phone number if it gets to that point.     
In my 3rd note (just sent), I told them that if I do not hear from anyone by next week, I will have no choice but to file a BBB complaint.

I find this extremely annoying because meanwhile they send me multiple marketing e-mails each day.  

Are other Christian music companies this bad at communication?

 
Have you tried orders@girdermerch.com?

That was the first e-mail address I tried.   6 days ago.

I was sent a scratched cd from another popular Christian label/distro company and was given the cold shoulder. Amazon is nicer and more efficient. Sad...

Constantine wrote:That was the first e-mail address I tried.   6 days ago.

Keep forwarding the same message, they do eventually reply.  It’s not very good service I have to admit.

TZ75 wrote:I was sent a scratched cd from another popular Christian label/distro company and was given the cold shoulder. Amazon is nicer and more efficient. Sad...

Very sorry to hear that.   We need to demand better.  
I have run an internet business before and this is not acceptable customer service.

My Awesome Timothy wrote:

Constantine wrote:That was the first e-mail address I tried.   6 days ago.

Keep forwarding the same message, they do eventually reply.  It’s not very good service I have to admit.

Thanks, I will do that.  I sent the 3rd request today and said I will keep sending one each day until I get a reply.  
I figure eventually I will wear them out!  Lol.

Girder ripped off my label years ago, guy is a complete and total scam artist.  When I asked other labels about this, they all said "oh yeah, he probably won't pay you for your consignment items".  Like it's common knowledge within the Christian label/distro community, but no one wants to publicly talk about it.  He still owes me HUNDREDS.  As this was a decade ago, I've obviously given up.  I know he's ripped off A LOT of people.

outofstep wrote:I know he's ripped off A LOT of people.

I'm glad you told me this.  I have been in dialog with a Christian band's management and I was going to recommend they contact Girder to do some consignment / distribution.   Now I will steer clear of them.

Are any of the other labels trustworthy and reliable?

Back in the late 80's we all got ripped off by a "Christian" company called Number One Son.  
They took our money and never sent us our product.  I got taken for $100.  
Eventually I heard the guy who ran it died of some disease.

Jason at Nokturnal Hemizphear is an awesome guy, great distro and label too.  Can't recommend him enough!  

Roxx, Nordic Mission, Soundmass, Bombworks/M8/Magdalene, Rottweiler were all awesome to deal with as well. There's probably some others I'm forgetting, it's been a while!

^Seconded!  Jason at NH/Metal Helm is totally awesome.  Duane at Vision Of God Records is great too.  Those two guys are the real deal, for sure.

Yikes that's awful about Girder...  I had no idea but good to know...  I read on another forum that during their big sales, they actually jack up the shipping rates which seems quite sneaky and unscrupulous.

I wonder if it wouldn't be a bad idea to have an ongoing list sticky'd for rip-off sites/distros?  We had that on another forum I used to help moderate which I thought was a good idea, as much as I hate the idea of how bad it makes our little sub-scene look to outsiders/unbelievers...

outofstep wrote:Girder ripped off my label years ago, guy is a complete and total scam artist.  When I asked other labels about this, they all said "oh yeah, he probably won't pay you for your consignment items".  Like it's common knowledge within the Christian label/distro community, but no one wants to publicly talk about it.  He still owes me HUNDREDS.  As this was a decade ago, I've obviously given up.  I know he's ripped off A LOT of people.

I think you should of had the guy flagged at the BBB (Better Business Bureau).

It’s not okay to rip people off! Unfortunately, Christianity is just a business opportunity for some people.

Kerrick wrote:^Seconded!  Jason at NH/Metal Helm is totally awesome.  Duane at Vision Of God Records is great too.  Those two guys are the real deal, for sure.

Yikes that's awful about Girder...  I had no idea but good to know...  I read on another forum that during their big sales, they actually jack up the shipping rates which seems quite sneaky and unscrupulous.

I wonder if it wouldn't be a bad idea to have an ongoing list sticky'd for rip-off sites/distros?  We had that on another forum I used to help moderate which I thought was a good idea, as much as I hate the idea of how bad it makes our little sub-scene look to outsiders/unbelievers...

Point #1 - Yes Duane is the real deal.  Would be great to have a contact info for Jason.

Point #2 - That is actually true, I have experienced it myself.   I watch the shipping prices rise when the CD prices fall, and vice versa.

Point #3 - That is a GREAT idea.  Can we include contact info as well for each company / label / distro?

They guy that I dealt with is a well known guy that everyone knows. No point revealing his name... it’s pointless, and I think some will defend him. Just know, I gave him multiple chances to respond and remedy the situation. He chose not to. 

Just be careful who you do business with. Especially the somewhat successful guys. They don’t care about reputation like a new underground label. They don’t care if they lose you as a customer.

TZ75 wrote:

outofstep wrote:Girder ripped off my label years ago, guy is a complete and total scam artist.  When I asked other labels about this, they all said "oh yeah, he probably won't pay you for your consignment items".  Like it's common knowledge within the Christian label/distro community, but no one wants to publicly talk about it.  He still owes me HUNDREDS.  As this was a decade ago, I've obviously given up.  I know he's ripped off A LOT of people.

I think you should of had the guy flagged at the BBB (Better Business Bureau).

It’s not okay to rip people off! Unfortunately, Christianity is just a business opportunity for some people.

Oh I filed MULTIPLE complaints.  I went so far as to actually file official complaints with my states Attorney General's office, as well as one of the states I shipped stock to.  Also filed one with the Federal Trade Commision's consumer protection agency.  even with me providing receipts and proof, outside of actually suing him in small claims court (which would have involved me traveling, taking off work, etc), there's really nothing they could do since he never responded to any of the complaints and all the agencies just considered the matter closed.  Live and learn I guess.

outofstep wrote:Jason at Nokturnal Hemizphear is an awesome guy, great distro and label too.  Can't recommend him enough!  

Roxx, Nordic Mission, Soundmass, Bombworks/M8/Magdalene, Rottweiler were all awesome to deal with as well. There's probably some others I'm forgetting, it's been a while!

I've purchased from you several times. Good service. I don't know how you found some of the rarities you've had listed.

My favorite labels/distros to purchase from are Vision of God Records, Metal Helm, Nordic Mission, Soundmass, and Extreme Records. While I like the re-issues that the trifecta of Roxx, Girder, and Boone's puts out, I'm not a big fan of any of them and I've had some issues with them. Roxx is the best of those three by far and I give them credit for having the occasional great sale. I don't like that Boone's and Girder raise the prices on their OWN releases to ridiculous amounts when they get down to a lower quantity (this on top of having starting prices that are already way higher than what VoG charges for their own LPs and CDs).

outofstep wrote:

TZ75 wrote:

outofstep wrote:Girder ripped off my label years ago, guy is a complete and total scam artist.  When I asked other labels about this, they all said "oh yeah, he probably won't pay you for your consignment items".  Like it's common knowledge within the Christian label/distro community, but no one wants to publicly talk about it.  He still owes me HUNDREDS.  As this was a decade ago, I've obviously given up.  I know he's ripped off A LOT of people.

I think you should of had the guy flagged at the BBB (Better Business Bureau).

It’s not okay to rip people off! Unfortunately, Christianity is just a business opportunity for some people.

Oh I filed MULTIPLE complaints.  I went so far as to actually file official complaints with my states Attorney General's office, as well as one of the states I shipped stock to.  Also filed one with the Federal Trade Commision's consumer protection agency.  even with me providing receipts and proof, outside of actually suing him in small claims court (which would have involved me traveling, taking off work, etc), there's really nothing they could do since he never responded to any of the complaints and all the agencies just considered the matter closed.  Live and learn I guess.

He sounds like a professional conman. I had a traffic accident over a year ago and the other person knew how to manipulate the insurance company, so they slipped through the cracks without taking the blame. The guy that owed you money probably knew to just keep his mouth shut and ignore everything.

In their defense, I think distros can set their CD and shipping prices to whatever they like. Don't like the terms, you take your business elsewhere and they lose your business. This is how capitalism works. It makes sense that the few remaining albums would be priced higher. As I have discovered in my own music collecting .... when an underground release is gone then often it is really gone!

I didn't say they can't, I said I don't like it. It's distasteful to me. It's one thing to sell one old, used, out of print and rare CD on a second hand site for a higher price than it originally sold for. It's something else to jack up the price of brand new CDs that your company put out the very same year because there's only 10 left. That's something I never encountered in the secular scene and I can't imagine why a Christian business would think that kind of price gouging is appropriate. That is one reason why I do, indeed, rarely order anything from them anymore. I'd much rather support someone like Duane at VoG who isn't in it for maximum profit, but to spread the message and help bands and fans make music available/acquire music at near cost.

Temple of Blood wrote:In their defense, I think distros can set their CD and shipping prices to whatever they like.  Don't like the terms, you take your business elsewhere and they lose your business.  This is how capitalism works.  It makes sense that the few remaining albums would be priced higher.  As I have discovered in my own music collecting .... when an underground release is gone then often it is really gone!

He's still engaging in unethical practices.  What's Jesus' take on that? 

Case closed.

I'm not commenting on the allegations of unethical conduct.

Just that there is nothing unethical about setting your prices to whatever u think the market will bear. If you're wrong, you now have a garage full of unsold merch and no one wants that.

There is no such thing as price gouging.

Temple of Blood wrote:There is no such thing as price gouging.  

...O.k. TOB, now I'm starting to get worried about you...!   Of course price gouging exists, there are even price gouging laws in almost every state.  It's a form of consumer protection.

Seriously though, there is nothing wrong with saying that's so-and-so's business practices are unethical or repugnant.  Personally, I find Apple's business practices disgusting and unethical.  They have been known to pay slave wages to poor, overworked Chinese workers in their factories to produce a phone that they then sell for close to $1,000 a pop.  Meanwhile, the company and their execs rake in billions and billions of dollars.  I'm being simplistic about their business model but yes, I find that incredibly distasteful and even vile.  Many other companies like Nike and others do the same.  The major companies in the chocolate industry routinely profit from child slave labor in their supply chains, and do almost nothing to crack down on it.  I have no problem saying that I have a moral objection to all that.

Girder might not be nearly as bad, but they do some questionable things and there's nothing wrong with pointing those out and saying "I have a problem with that" or "I question the fairness or ethics of that."

Laws have nothing to do with anything.  Only God's law matters.  Murdering babies is ok according to our laws.

https://youtu.be/ymMzJAdIAes

People can "question" all they like but accusing someone of a misdeed for setting their own prices is unfair and not biblical.  I realize you have other grievances but this one aspect of the discussion I wanted to comment on.

I personally don't really even see Girder and VoG as competitors because I don't see much overlap in the products they offer.

I didn't see anyone use the word dishonest in regard to the price changes. Just in regards to not paying someone for a consignment or distribution deal.

Temple of Blood wrote:Laws have nothing to do with anything.  Only God's law matters.  Murdering babies is ok according to our laws.

https://youtu.be/ymMzJAdIAes

People can "question" all they like but accusing someone of dishonesty for setting their own prices is unfair and not biblical.  I realize you have other grievances but this one aspect of the discussion I wanted to comment on.

I think you're actually proving Constantine's point. Saying "because capitalism..." is not a valid argument for what is ethical. Also, I did not accuse anyone of dishonesty for setting their own prices. That's an invented claim and perhaps you are conflating my point with someone else's. I said it was distasteful...and it is. I'm a conservative and have an affinity for much of libertarian ideology, but the market is not equivalent to Christian ethics. I think it's distasteful, in this niche market of Christians, to intentionally gouge other Christians ($80-$90 for an LP your company just put out?) because your primary goal is to maximize profits. There are other considerations and I think Duane at VoG is following a much more Christian model for conducting business ethically.