Girder Music - How To Contact Them & Actually Get A Response

It was referred to as the supposed sin of "price gouging", a sin so grievous it is never mentioned in the Bible.

People always want more than they're willing to pay for.

I've been criticized for not giving away all my music for free on spotify for "those poor folks in college who don't have much spending money".

VoG I see as a Christian label of new extreme bands, that also features a distro mainly aimed at extreme metal.

Girder I see as a seller of classic Christian rock and melodic metal reissues. Afaik no bands sign to Girder for new releases.

I see labels as needing to find ways to grow bands, not just move current stock.

My 2 cents.

I don't have to justify setting prices because there is nothing to justify.

You have to justify saying it's wrong and use the Bible to do so.

No one is "gouging" anything. That is just hyperbole.

I think people in general understand very little about economics which makes them easy pray for politicians.

There Is a lot in the Bible about greed.  
Price gouging laws were created to deal with greed situations during a disaster.  Such as when a merchant who normally sells a bottle of water for $1 suddenly jacks it up to $100 during a crisis and takes advantage of people who need it.  You can say "supply and demand" and that's true on the surface, but the motivation behind jacking up the price to an unreasonable amount is what's on examination here.

In Genesis, Joseph stored up grain for 7 years and then sold it to the people during a famine, but there was never an indication that he jacked up the prices to anything obscene.   He got a fair return for Pharaoh because essentially Pharaoh owned the grain and was not obligated to just give it away.

But those are two different situations.  In the first, there was price gouging, or greed.  In the 2nd, we have no indication that there was any.

Temple of Blood wrote:It was referred to as the supposed sin of "price gouging", a sin so grievous it is never mentioned in the Bible.

People always want more than they're willing to pay for.

I've been criticized for not giving away all my music for free on spotify for "those poor folks in college who don't have much spending money".  

I didn't say that price gouging is a sin. It's really an economic and political term so it makes no sense to conflate them in that way. The problem is what motivates price gouging. I think it would be reasonable to say that it is often motivated by greed (especially when we're not dealing with an emergency situation here). Greed is, indeed, a sin. I don't know what other motivation you would ascribe this to?:

https://girdermusic.com/products/copy-of-betrayal-renaissance-by-death-vinyl-2019-girder-records?_pos=1&_sid=17b79dc17&_ss=r

Oh wait, it's "on sale" for $89. But no, it's just "hyperbolic" to point out how distasteful this is. I don't think I need to justify why I think that's distasteful. I think it's pretty clear that this is distasteful in the world of Christian ethics. If anyone would have to justify anything you would either have to demonstrate how this isn't greed or how greed isn't a sin...or how libertarian free market ideology is perfectly consonant with the gospel and how we don't need to consider anything else because this is just how markets work.

The last point you made just takes the argument to the other extreme without addressing the questionable ethics of these companies subjecting all else to the profit motive. I don't use Spotify and I buy all available physical media in addition to merchandise. There's a happy medium between "you should give everything away for free" and "you should disregard all else to make as much money off people as possible."

Why do you keep assuming he can make the most money by selling it at the most outlandish prices? You set it too high and you make 0. It's an offer, that is all.

Did either of you watch the video I posted?

Making a profit is not in itself greed, nor is making a hefty profit.

I see no problem someone selling Christian CDs and trying to make as much as they can. It's not my approach, but he puts a ton of time into his distro I'm sure. I look at certain other Christian distros and it looks like they are stuck in 1994. I don't think this issue is as black and white as you guys are portraying it.

I didn't say it was black or white, I used the word "examination." That implies that it looks one way but we ought to look into it in more detail.

At this point though I just want to hear back from the guy.  It's not good business practice to not  respond to your customers.  I hope that's not up for debate too....

Temple, your adherence to false arguments and antinomianism has been duly noted.

Also, there's no such as price gouging? ROFLOL! Tell that to all the attorneys general who have filed suit in that regard!

Furthermore, "the only law is God's law"?  You need to brush up on Romans 13, pal.  Going by your "logic," we should abolish our prison system!

Just as an FYI here, none of the labels or businesses mentioned here make much money off the sales they do. Some of their owners have lost houses and gone into bankruptcy to keep the labels moving. They keep this info to themselves, because, well - you see how people judge them here. But just because Vision of God Records is willing to lose more of his own money to running a label than some of the others are, that doesn't mean that any of them are living large. Look up some of the addresses that your music comes from on Google Streetview if you don't believe me.

Duly noted. But how does that excuse poor customer service and communication? If you're going to have a business of any type, you need to find a way to take care of your customers. Whether that's through volunteers, family members, trained monkeys, whatever. If you are just going to bombard your customers with marketing emails each day so you can sell product, but then neglect to address their concerns when they have issues with their orders, that will not create a long-lasting business, nor will it engender much customer goodwill.

grandeped wrote:Just as an FYI here, none of the labels or businesses mentioned here make much money off the sales they do. Some of their owners have lost houses and gone into bankruptcy to keep the labels moving. They keep this info to themselves, because, well - you see how people judge them here. But just because Vision of God Records is willing to lose more of his own money to running a label than some of the others are, that doesn't mean that any of them are living large. Look up some of the addresses that your music comes from on Google Streetview if you don't believe me.

Those bad things you detailed suck...but that's no valid rationale for using unethical tactics.  Jesus does not approve of such hamfisted chicanery.

Constantine wrote:Duly noted.  But how does that excuse poor customer service and communication?   If you're going to have a business of any type, you need to find a way to take care of your customers.  Whether that's through volunteers, family members, trained monkeys, whatever.   If you are just going to bombard your customers with marketing emails each day so you can sell product, but then neglect to address their concerns when they have issues with their orders, that will not create a long-lasting business, nor will it engender much customer goodwill.

And that could be partly why they are going bankrupt. Every customer you lose is one step closer to a failed business. Good customer service keeps people coming back. It all adds up. Selling a lot of music at a fair price is better than selling a couple for $100 a piece. And not responding to your customers is ridiculous! I highly doubt they are “overwhelmed” with emails. I’m thinking, lazy and rude. You got 10 emails waiting, respond to your customers!

Romans 13 talks about obeying. I did not advocate disobeying the law.

The obvious point is that God's word dictates morality and not the whim of politicians or popular opinion. Again, according to our law murdering babies is OK.

So just because there are laws against "price gouging" doesn't make it actually immoral.

Again, did any of you actually watch the video?

An argument against raising prices on food is one thing, and an argument against setting high prices on rare vinyl is completely absurd.

In my music pursuits at certain times, if I was a vinyl collector, I might be happy to pay 89 dollars for a certain item and would not consider myself "gouged", rather happy that I could find the item anywhere.

TOB, can we all agree that:

A) Ignoring or neglecting your customers is bad
B). Not paying your suppliers or band consignments is bad

Because to me those are much bigger issues.

I didn't start this thread to talk about price raising issues, so I will be exiting that part of where this discussion has headed because I feel like we're getting lost in the weeds here.

BaleMaster wrote:Temple, your adherence to false arguments and antinomianism has been duly noted.

Well OH NO!  Clearly you think that carries a lot of weight.  Who in the world do you think you are?

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Your sanctimonious herd-mentality judgmentalism here and patent ignorance are also "duly noted".

"Antinomianism, (Greek anti, “against”; nomos, “law”), doctrine according to which Christians are freed by grace from the necessity of obeying the Mosaic Law. "

I never ONCE said Christians are free from obeying Mosaic Law.  That is a blatant lie you are telling.

Tell me, do blatant lies rise to the level of wrong-doing as "price gouging"?

You lack the critical thinking skills to even understand the argument I am making, much less rebut it.

Pray tell, what is the "Christian price" for that item that Girder is selling?  After all, we don't want to be "duly noted" as sinners by Balemaster.  He'll find a 25 cent word to accuse you of even if he can't find any actual scriptures that you're violating.

Speaking of someone using "false arguments", your Romans 13 one was completely bogus as I pointed out.  You need to "duly note" yourself.

Constantine wrote:TOB, can we all agree that:

A) Ignoring or neglecting your customers is bad
B). Not paying your suppliers or band consignments is bad

Because to me those are much bigger issues.  

Agreed, of course.

grandeped wrote:Just as an FYI here, none of the labels or businesses mentioned here make much money off the sales they do. Some of their owners have lost houses and gone into bankruptcy to keep the labels moving. They keep this info to themselves, because, well - you see how people judge them here. But just because Vision of God Records is willing to lose more of his own money to running a label than some of the others are, that doesn't mean that any of them are living large. Look up some of the addresses that your music comes from on Google Streetview if you don't believe me.

Unless Girder improves its customer service, can see them going that way as well.  Reputations speak volumes.

I’m not going to name names but I’m getting a bit fed up with the Christian scene, labels and crowdfunding that deliver false promises.  Personally I’m against these strong hikes on remaining vinyl, this is my opinion on the matter.  God calls us to be good stewards of our money and believe God would rather give our money to those in need rather than overinflated prices.  If all pre-orders sold out they would be no huge increase anyway, so let’s support the trustworthy labels the best we can.  They need our support.

Girder Music sells crack to children and feeds hot sauce to St. Bernard puppies. 

They got me banned on Twitter and spy on me through Windows 10.  On January 3rd, they organized an insurrection on the Capitol building while screaming "Heil Hitlary."

And, like George Lucas with The Phantom Menace, they stole my childhood.

Girder Music will rue the day that they ever had the idea of gouging shipping prices!

Epstein didn't kill himself...

Superjuice wrote:Girder Music sells crack to children and feeds hot sauce to St. Bernard puppies. 

They got me banned on Twitter and spy on me through Windows 10.  On January 3rd, they organized an insurrection on the Capitol building while screaming "Heil Hitlary."

And, like George Lucas with The Phantom Menace, they stole my childhood.

Girder Music will rue the day that they ever had the idea of gouging shipping prices!

Epstein didn't kill himself...

Just sent my 4th and 5th requests for a response.  

Girder inexplicably just ignoring my queries.  

I agree with TZ75 in that I also can't imagine that they are swamped by e-mails.

This is really frustrating.   Told them I will have to take it up with the BBB by next week if I do not hear back.

I don't know if they sell crack as Superjuice asserts, but I agree that Epstein did not kill himself....

I’m pretty sure that dogs don’t have the receptors to experience spicy/hot foods the way that we do.

Just wanted to contribute here, you’re welcome!

I think this has been an ongoing thing.
https://thecmr.forumotion.com/t3586-what-happened-to-girder-music?highlight=Girder

Constantine wrote:Just sent my 4th and 5th requests for a response.  

Girder inexplicably just ignoring my queries.  

I agree with TZ75 in that I also can't imagine that they are swamped by e-mails.

This is really frustrating.   Told them I will have to take it up with the BBB by next week if I do not hear back.

I don't know if they sell crack as Superjuice asserts, but I agree that Epstein did not kill himself....

Praying for remedy for ya, bro.