Rank the Believer Albums!

Let's rank these thrashers. I'm only doing the first 3, but feel free to add the others if you wish.

1. Sanity Obscure

Great lyrics, great music, a top Christian thrash album. Idols of Ignorance is probably my favorite Believer song. 

2. Dimensions

The first one I got, and I actually rank it almost as high as Sanity Obscure. Some days, I might even rank it higher. Every song is great, and I really like the more experimental tracks like Dementia. The Trilogy of Knowledge is, of course, awesome. 

3. Extraction from Mortality 

Good stuff, but I don't find it as compelling as the next two. Still great thrash metal. 


Let's go!

1. Dimensions
2. Extraction from Mortality
3. Sanity Obscured
4. Gabriel
5. Transhuman

Dimensions

Sanity

Extractions


The End.

1. Extraction: One of my all time favorite albums along with Tourniquet STB, Deliverance WooW, Vengeance OD and The Crucified s/t. I was blown away by this 30 years ago and still love it, the music, the atmosphere and the cover art, the band photos… It all checks out for a genre defining classic. 

2. Sanity: What a follow up, more refined than the debut I can see why dudes would rank it first. I just have more nostalgia attached to the debut but Sanity is extremely good.

3. Dimensions: They lost me on this. I mean I can listen to it but it‘s too complex for my simple taste. Still, great creativity and musicianship.

4. Gabriel: Not my cuppa but it has a few moments but they only make me want to go back to the old stuff.

5. Transhuman: Does nothing for me.

As far as listening enjoyment goes,

1.  Transhuman
2.  Sanity Obscure
3.  Extraction
4.  Gabriel
5.  Dimensions

Sanity Obscure - one of the best thrash albums ever. Love how similarly amazing this is to secular albums like Sacrifice "Soldiers of Misfortune" and "Forward to Termination." Makes sense they were associated with one another. I appreciated how twisted these riffs are. It's more technical than Sacrifice. The first three tracks make up one of the best starts to an album ever.

Dimensions - my first believer album. I bought this around the same time I got Atheist "Elements," Cynic "Focus" and Anacrusis "Screams and Whispers." All are legendary albums and for me this and the Anacrusis album were tops. Definitely an interesting time in the metal world with all the progressions being made. Only reason this isn't undoubtedly higher than Sanity Obscure is "What Is But Cannot Be" has never really done anything for me and "Singularity" isn't amazing either. I can credit this album and Therion "Theli" for getting me into the more weird side of metal in the mid to late 90's.

Extraction From Mortality - A blazing riff fest. Somewhat one dimensional but so catchy for how fast it is.

Gabriel & Transhuman - haven't listened to these in 9 years. Didn't care for either musically or lyrically. Don't care about the Ep's that followed as a result. Not sure I'd ever bother with the band again. Maybe?

1 - The Chosen
I know this is only a single and a demo but "The Chosen" to my knowledge, was never recorded anywhere else. Probably wouldn't like a re-record anyway. This song is perfect in EVERY regard.

2 - Extraction...
I get the samey comments but this record is too good not to be at the top...

3 - Dimensions
ground-breaking and took me awhile to get used to back in my straight-up-metal-or-nothing days but I love the strings and opera singing...

4 - Sanity...
while this is a great record, it feels IDK, overproduced (not sure) and falls in the samey category for me...

5 - The Return
this is below the other original era stuff due to production. it is a demo after all. and before the new stuff probably due to sentimentalism...

6 - Gabriel and Transhuman
I like these records but don't know them well enough to rank them...

1.  Extraction from Mortality.  So good!  Interesting, creative, SO aggressive.  Loved it and still love it.

2.  Dimensions.  I get that they're great, but mostly I'm just not into it.  Kind of like if you go to a super fancy restaurant and they serve you high-end pattee (sp?) or caviar or something else of exquisite and refined taste that I'd trade in a heartbeat for really good barbeque from a roadside shack.  That said, Trilogy of Knowledge was/is spectacular, like nothing I'd ever heard, and I still love it.

3.  Sanity Obscure.  Similar to what I said about Dimensions.  Specifically as it came after EfM, I didn't like the different vocal style as much and in general the songs just never grabbed me, even back when I only had like 20 cd's to even cycle through.

4.  Gabriel.  I think there was one song that I really liked, but mostly no real impression.

Still haven't bothered with Transhuman, I've come to realize that I'm an Extraction fan, but not so much a Believer fan.

Extraction
Sanity
Dimensions 
Gabriel 
Transhuman

Sanity Obscure 
Dimenssions 
Extraction 
Gabriel 
Transhuman

Just listening to Gabriel on youtube and to be fair, it's actually better than I thought it was going to be.  Transhuman has a few good tunes on it but overall its not quite my bag.  Gabriel is pretty a cool listen, and maybe overlooked by a few (like myself here)

It's almost universal that the first three are the best in some order.  Only Constantine picked one of the more recent ones in the top three.

Why is this?  Lyrical content?  Something musical?  Nostalgia?

eatbugs wrote:It's almost universal that the first three are the best in some order.  Only Constantine picked one of the more recent ones in the top three.

Why is this?  Lyrical content?  Something musical?  Nostalgia?

I believe when it comes to Gabriel, now that I have heard it in full, that it is the lyrical content and the fact they have moved away from their past christian heritage (musical speaking as far as I know) as they themselves profess- we've moved on from that. Can't remember where I heard it or read it, but I know they said it.

Also Gabriel is not that distant in production and overall sound than that of Dimensions, it even has some sanity Obscure vibes pop in there now and then with those twisted trademark believer guitar harmonies (you know the ones I'm talking bout).  Transhuman, however, is quite a big shift from the the believer sound, even though you can still hear it in there. 

It was the rage against the machine vocals on some of the tracks of that album I didn't fancy, mixed in with the tool vibe.

Straight up though, I reckon its the lyrics- had they of been all Jesus is King and how great thou art, etc, I bet more people would have swallowed the pill.

I actually like them in the exact order they were released. Each album was slightly worse than the previous one. Although the first two were almost a tie IMO.

eatbugs wrote:It's almost universal that the first three are the best in some order.  Only Constantine picked one of the more recent ones in the top three.

Why is this?  Lyrical content?  Something musical?  Nostalgia?

It is as simple as the black album and the Load albums not being treated the same 30 years later. Even Death Magnetic and Hardwired.

Even forbearing radical change, take Iron Maiden who never radically changed sound but had low points and have generally lost energy and spirit. Extremely rare are those who champion new material as better than their favorite classics.

Go farther to Megadeth, whom many here would rather champion for current lyric topics over the topics on Peace Sells (Black Friday anyone?). Not sure anyone on the planet would say the new material tops Rust in Peace or Peace Sells. The albums just aren't on the same level

It is 100% musical. If the albums were musically on with Extraction and lyrically the same as they currently are the conversation would be "amazing musically, lyrically disappointing." Instead it is both. Everyone here enjoys music. I think people are nearly 100% in admitting good music regardless of lyrical content, though in a Christian context we can admit having the two come together does increase support and willingness to accept a change favorably. Back when I bought Transhuman, whose lyrics are not in the booklet and weren't online, it was the music I didn't care for. To this day I don't know what the lyrics are about. It isn't a bad album either. It is more consistent than Gabriel in my opinion but it wasn't interesting. The secular metal community, which I was a part of didn't and doesn't like it to this day.

I think Pethead's thread of who is better today thread hits the question the head, it is a rare case that any band is better 20-30 years later, if they are still around or make a comeback. We could ask about all secular thrash comebacks and get 40 "why did they bother" responses with a fair amount of "that was respectable" a few "that was amazing" and an extremely rare "that was better."

eatbugs wrote:It's almost universal that the first three are the best in some order.  Only Constantine picked one of the more recent ones in the top three.

Why is this?  Lyrical content?  Something musical?  Nostalgia?

This board tends to be both 1) old; and 2) Christian.  So we all got into and loved Believer when the first 3 came out, because we loved thrash and appreciated their lyrical themes.  Then there was a big gap, and both of those elements changed, so of course we don't prefer them.  If there are people who were introduced to the Transhuman/Gabriel Believer and became fans, then went back to explore their earlier stuff, the perspectives may be much different -- but as a rule, that's not the folks here.  Our opinions are just a reflection of who we are, which is not at all a random sample.  Makes sense, right?

Grindboy wrote:

This board tends to be both 1) old; and 2) Christian.  So we all got into and loved Believer when the first 3 came out, because we loved thrash and appreciated their lyrical themes.  Then there was a big gap, and both of those elements changed, so of course we don't prefer them.  If there are people who were introduced to the Transhuman/Gabriel Believer and became fans, then went back to explore their earlier stuff, the perspectives may be much different -- but as a rule, that's not the folks here.  Our opinions are just a reflection of who we are, which is not at all a random sample.  Makes sense, right?

If I follow the above correctly, I would say I'm the exception to it...

In my case, I am:  1) old (55+), and 2) Christian, but I like Transhuman the best because to me it is musically their best combination of prog riffs, groove, rhythm, melody, emotion, and atmosphere.  To me it is a more subtle and nuanced approach for Believer whereby they don't feel the need to go 100-mph and have tons of complicated time changes at the same time.  It's the same reason I like "Images & Words" the best from Dream Theater's catalog, or "Parallels" from Fates Warning, or why I like "Signals" by Rush.  

I've no ideas what the lyrics are and it is questionable whether I would like them.  I evaluated all of their albums on a musical basis.

I really appreciate "Sanity Obscure" and "Dimensions" for how brilliant they are.  But the harsh guitar & drum sound make them harder for me to listen to for more than a few songs.   Plus the songs on those first 3 albums tend to sound more claustrophobic.   On Transhuman, the guitar riffs and the bass are allowed more breathing room.  The songs themselves sound more expansive and less tension-producing, even though there are still some very tricky time changes.   There are actual choruses with some elongated melodies ("Lie Awake" or "Traveler" being the best examples).   I see this album as their "Black Album" ala Metallica - i.e. an incorporation of the band's signature style within a less discordant, more accessible song-writing format.

I can totally understand anyone wanting to leave this album behind due to the lyrical changes, whatever those are (I've never read them).  But musically this appears to be a very unappreciated album but one that I can most definitely appreciate.

Constantine wrote:

Grindboy wrote:

This board tends to be both 1) old; and 2) Christian.  So we all got into and loved Believer when the first 3 came out, because we loved thrash and appreciated their lyrical themes.  Then there was a big gap, and both of those elements changed, so of course we don't prefer them.  If there are people who were introduced to the Transhuman/Gabriel Believer and became fans, then went back to explore their earlier stuff, the perspectives may be much different -- but as a rule, that's not the folks here.  Our opinions are just a reflection of who we are, which is not at all a random sample.  Makes sense, right?

If I follow the above correctly, I would say I'm the exception to it...

In my case, I am:  1) old (55+), and 2) Christian, but I like Transhuman the best because to me it is musically their best combination of prog riffs, groove, rhythm, melody, emotion, and atmosphere.  To me it is a subtle and nuanced approach for Believer whereby they don't feel the need to go 100-mph and have tons of complicated time changes at the same time.  It's the same reason I like "Images & Words" the best from Dream Theater's catalog, or "Parallels" from Fates Warning, or why I like "Signals" by Rush.  

I've no ideas what the lyrics are and it is questionable whether I would like them.  I evaluated all of their albums on a musical basis.

I really appreciate "Sanity Obscure" and "Dimensions" for how brilliant they are.  But the harsh guitar & drum sound make them harder for me to listen to for more than a few songs.   Plus the songs on those first 3 albums tend to sound more claustrophobic.   On Transhuman, the guitar riffs and the bass are allowed more breathing room.  The songs themselves sound more expansive and less tension-producing, even though there are still some very tricky time changes.   There are actual choruses with some elongated melodies ("Lie Awake" or "Traveler" being the best examples).   I do see this album as their "Black Album" ala Metallica - i.e. an incorporation of the band's signature style within a less discordant, more accessible song-writing format.

I can totally understand anyone wanting to leave this album behind due to the lyrical changes, whatever those are (I've never read them).  But musically this appears to be a very unappreciated album but one that I can most definitely appreciate.

Hmmm, I'm going to give Transhuman a few more good listens, maybe it will grow on me.   Listened to Gabriel in full twice now, and its a fine album, what I'd call exploration, proggy thrash.  Like the drummer too, never sticks to the typical metal stuff, the bass is right there in your face, and the guitars thrash and chunk in the way that only believer can deliver it.

The thing I like about the Transhuman album is that Kurt expanded his vocals a bit with some clean singing. That was refreshing. But I miss the old Bible inspired lyrics from the first three albums.

Yes Constantine, you're the exception on this one for sure.

But more importantly: 55+?  Thank you for making me feel young, wohoo!!!

Dustofyears wrote:Dimensions

Sanity

Extractions


The End.

Agreed, this is it.

Yes, it does make sense.  That's why I brought up nostalgia as a possibility.  I suspect the answer is the totality of the three options.

I only have Sanity Obscure and Dimensions so I don't have first-hand knowledge (which is why I didn't rank them) but I remember the complaints about musical change with the comebacks.  I also remember a VERY divisive thread about if Believer was still considered a Christian band not long after I joined this board where the lyrics and evasiveness of the band were "discussed."  Dustofyears and Frozen Fire are both onto something with their varied opinions.

Grindboy wrote:Yes Constantine, you're the exception on this one for sure.

But more importantly: 55+?  Thank you for making me feel young, wohoo!!!

Hey I happen to look fantastic for my age, at least 15 years younger. And if you're fortunate, you'll even make it to 55 some day

Extraction
Sanity
(Tied)

Gabriel 
(I’ve been starting to like this one a lot)

Dimensions 
(I don’t hate it, but it’s a chore to listen to)

Transhuman
(Maybe a couple okay songs, but way too different)

No. I like all of them (except the u2 song)