Re: Secular Metal Lyrics

by ThomasEversole Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:30 pm

Devon Hill wrote:
I completely agree that Jesus is not "knocked off his throne" if we listen to anti-Christian music. He is God, and He is a compassionate, loving father who, even when we sin, is right there with us, loving us and forgiving us. My belief is that even though Jesus is like this, that doesn't mean He wants us to do stuff that is not honouring to Him. Please understand that I do not judge bands like Manowar either. I love them and pray for them too. I don't judge anybody for listening to them either. I simply have a different belief about whether we should listen to anti-Christian stuff for entertainment. I still love, and respect them as fellow believers. I think this is what the essence of Jesus' comments to you about organized religion is all about - while there are people that do things that one person disagrees with, we are still called to live in unity and love with them with no judgment. I think God desires way more for us to focus on unity and love in the body of Christ way more than trying to "correct" every Christian to make them believe in everything we do. It's definitely ok, and encouraged to talk about it and sharpen each other (Prov 27:17), but to judge others because of it is definitely not God's desire.

Good post. While satanic lyrics aren't my favorite thing, I'm willing to look past the sin and focus on the sinner.
The last thing I think Christ would want us to do is look right at the sin, and then balk with getting involved, because of that sin.
(I'm referring specifically to the satanic lyrics sin - please don't drag porn or murder into this, its not applicable)

by Guest Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:08 pm

For a Churchian, what's most important is what's written in paper (whether doctrine or whatever scriptures can be loosely applied to any situation), "correcting" people who are "wrong" (aka even though I'm not gay and its none of my business, lets go tell them how wrong they are for being gay anyway) and maintaining the "life" of man-made elements to faith. Oh yeah, and Christ in your heart.

this is pretty much my definition of organized religion..especially denominations be they catholic or protestant

by messiaen77 Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:37 pm

So, how about those lyric preferences...

by Guest Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:56 pm

So, how about those lyric preferences...

I think we already answered the question on that and moved on Razz

by ThomasEversole Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:42 pm

HAHA!!!

Secular Metal Lyrics - Page 5 LN1ucPZ8hOaFMsdtV8K8

by crucifyd Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:51 pm

ThomasEversole wrote:
RavenWolf wrote:
Wake up and smell the stench of your religious spirit!!!

That's the difference between Christianity and Churchianity.
For a Christian, what's most important is Christ in your heart, being a Christlike example to others - whoever they are, and keeping your eyes on God.
For a Churchian, what's most important is what's written in paper (whether doctrine or whatever scriptures can be loosely applied to any situation), "correcting" people who are "wrong" (aka even though I'm not gay and its none of my business, lets go tell them how wrong they are for being gay anyway) and maintaining the "life" of man-made elements to faith. Oh yeah, and Christ in your heart.

An obvious difference, clearly seen anywhere.

I may be misreading you, but "keeping your eyes on God" involves "what's written in paper", does it not? "test the spirits" from 1 john 4:1 comes to mind. we can't discount the importance of doctrine because the followers of Christ are a bunch of sinners who tend to put "being right" in it's wrongful place. if Jesus thought "what's written in paper" was not important, why did He quote it so much?

doctrine and Christ-likeness go hand in hand. He has given us the scripture that we will become like Him. Christ-likeness is not opposed to correct theology, it is the result of it, for without scripture we do not know what He was like nor how He would have us to live.

as far as correction, there is also a place/time to correct, even, dare I say it, judge. it may be less cut and dried how or when to do so with those outside the church but we are clearly told to do so, in love, with those in the church:

GOD wrote:I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 ESV

and of course, there are many examples of Jesus/biblical text correcting people who were wrong...

by ThomasEversole Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:04 am

crucifyd wrote:
I may be misreading you, but "keeping your eyes on God" involves "what's written in paper", does it not?

I hope this is clearer.
One side, the relationship with God "involves" what's written on paper, but its to get closer to Him.
...the other side, what's written on paper trumps logic and common sense, and is often wielded as a weapon.

crucifyd wrote:
as far as correction, there is also a place/time to correct, even, dare I say it, judge. it may be less cut and dried how or when to do so with those outside the church but we are clearly told to do so, in love, with those in the church

The lyrical content of the metal someone listens to is not one of those times for churchians to bring scriptural judgement down. Its comparable to punching someone in the face because you saw them pick their nose.

...and as you can see in this thread, its no longer about nose picking,
but about getting punched in the face for it!

by Guest Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:28 pm

Also, I was healed miraculously!!! Though I know that most Calvinists don't believe in miracles - I guess you guys all suppose that miracles died out with the last apostle

I believe in Miracles I just witnessed one a week ago. They are alive and well

by WildWorld Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:44 pm

Also, this is just personal preference, but i choose not to listen to bands where the lead singer commited suicide (Boston, Nirvana). It just creeps me out too much for some reason (ironically, i have no problem with cover songs of bands like this, i would have no problem if the Foo Fighters had a album of them covering Nirvana or Michael Sweet singing Brad Delp-era Boston songs).

by Guest Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:28 pm

I do love some Foo Fighters

After seeing Soaked in Bleach I am not so sure Kurt killed himself.

by Guest Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:39 pm

Devon Hill wrote:Great story RavenWolf. I believe it 100%. That is very consistent with other people's encounters with Jesus that I have read. To be fair, I don't think it is good to call people who desire holiness to honour Jesus in what they choose to listen to, having the stench of a religious spirit. I'm not sure if you are saying this to everybody who has disagreed with listening to anti-Christian music in this thread or not. While I disagree that God wants us to listen to anti-Christian music simply for the sake of the entertainment of it, I don't believe that means I would have a religious spirit. I am definitely aware of what a religious spirit is.

I completely agree that Jesus is not "knocked off his throne" if we listen to anti-Christian music. He is God, and He is a compassionate, loving father who, even when we sin, is right there with us, loving us and forgiving us. My belief is that even though Jesus is like this, that doesn't mean He wants us to do stuff that is not honouring to Him. Please understand that I do not judge bands like Manowar either. I love them and pray for them too. I don't judge anybody for listening to them either. I simply have a different belief about whether we should listen to anti-Christian stuff for entertainment. I still love, and respect them as fellow believers. I think this is what the essence of Jesus' comments to you about organized religion is all about - while there are people that do things that one person disagrees with, we are still called to live in unity and love with them with no judgment. I think God desires way more for us to focus on unity and love in the body of Christ way more than trying to "correct" every Christian to make them believe in everything we do. It's definitely ok, and encouraged to talk about it and sharpen each other (Prov 27:17), but to judge others because of it is definitely not God's desire.

I agree that Jesus is a lot more loving and compassionate than what many people believe he is. What you described about Jesus is exactly how I think He is. When he said he doesn't like what organized religion has become, I would completely agree. It doesn't mean he doesn't like us going to church at in an "organized" denomination, but that the "division" aspect of organized religion or the "we are completely right and you are wrong" type of thinking is what he doesn't like. Jesus wants us all to be in unity regardless of our theological differences. That is my take anyway. I completely agree that there isn't a single person on earth who has all correct theology or doctrine. We all have wrong concepts about it and I think we will be surprised about the beliefs we held so strongly to in heaven when they are revealed they are wrong.

Hey Brother, no I was not talking to you personally at all! When I said "Wake up and smell the stench of your religious spirit!" ... I was referring to anyone and all who are Pharisees in the modern sense of the word. There are thousands of them upon the earth. That was another thing Jesus told me. He told me .. and I quote ... "I am not pleased with them".

He also answered other questions I had. One of them was cannabis related. See the cannabis thread for my views on that though (I won't reiterate that here).

In fact, I don't tell many people what happened to me. I've only told a few. I don't broadcast this, but Jesus told me I have an assignment to do on the earth, and I'm not fully sure of this ... but I am starting to think that maybe I am supposed to write a book about my experience. I am not going to do it though, unless I am told to by Him or the Holy Spirit.

So Devon, I am sorry that you thought I was telling you that you had a religious spirit. I condemn no one at this board! I love all you guys! Smile

by Guest Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:44 pm

Also, I want to say that I think it's wise to listen to only Christian music sometimes.

Especially if the person is easily impressionable. Like a youth ... or someone who maybe has come out of a lot of serious dark stuff.

I'd encourage the listening of 'only Christian music' in such cases.

In my case ... I am called to the highways and byways. To those who are not perfect, but sinners. I am a 'Sheep, in the disguise of a wolf. Wink

... (hence the name Ravenwolf) ...

In a few weeks I'm going to see Cradle of Filth live in concert. I am praying each and every day for that concert. It's my mission field.

by sentient 6 Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:47 pm

ThomasEversole wrote:
That's the difference between Christianity and Churchianity.
For a Christian, what's most important is Christ in your heart, being a Christlike example to others - whoever they are, and keeping your eyes on God.
For a Churchian, what's most important is what's written in paper (whether doctrine or whatever scriptures can be loosely applied to any situation), "correcting" people who are "wrong" (aka even though I'm not gay and its none of my business, lets go tell them how wrong they are for being gay anyway) and maintaining the "life" of man-made elements to faith. Oh yeah, and Christ in your heart.

An obvious difference, clearly seen anywhere.

Churchianity.......liberal code for someone who thinks they have a saving relationship with God...but may not ?

Thomas in all fairness, your posts can be laced with judgment at times. Its just not the type we are all used too. Ones that many here have not picked up on.

by sentient 6 Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:05 pm

RavenWolf wrote:
So you can believe this happened to me or not. I really don't care who believes me! I know for a FACT that this happened to me! Nothing was against Scripture. Though He did inform me that He was not happy with what had turned into 'organized religion'. !

Well RW, I believe something happened to you. I underlined that one part and wondered if you were familiar with the story of Joseph Smith ( Mormons ) ? If you are not, I encourage you to read about his encounters with Jesus.

That said, I don't know what happened to you. But I do know that people will be influenced by your words and lifestyle because of what you tell people of your experience. You claim to have had an experience that many of us that claim to be Christians have not. There is more authority and weight to what you say if this is true. There is a almost prophet-like status to your life now because of what happened to you. People may changed there views on church, teaching, teachers, music, movies, etc because they see you have authority to speak on these matters. It goes like this - " hey if ravenwolf can do and think XX and Y, then I can too ! After all, he meet Jesus ! "

...please take my post in the spirit it was intended....and I'm sorry for breaking my promise to not post in this thread.

by sentient 6 Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:11 pm

..and for the record....Calvinists do believe in miracles. We believe the greatest one is when a sinner turns from their sin and turns to God.

But we also believe that God has the freedom to heal and do miracles anytime he wants. All according to His plan and purpose.

by sentient 6 Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:23 pm

ThomasEversole wrote:For a Churchian, what's most important is what's written in paper (whether doctrine or whatever scriptures can be loosely applied to any situation),

I'm not sure if you are aware of it, but this is a judgment. In essence, you are saying people like me do not hear from God from those " papers. " You are saying that what we claim as being led by God through those " papers " is not a valid experience. I personally would rather trust the words of my Lord, Prophets and Apostles over the words of men that are given to me today.

by Hardcore Christian Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:26 pm

Wow still no mods, not saying the conversation is bad at this point, but I wouldve expected the Tyrant or Ban-hammer in here by now Razz

by Kerrick Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:50 pm

We're alwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaays watching....................................

cyclops

by exo Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:04 pm

Hardcore Christian wrote:Wow still no mods, not saying the conversation is bad at this point, but I wouldve expected the Tyrant or Ban-hammer in here by now

Weather eye on the horizon at all times, mate.....

by Guest Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:18 pm

sentient 6 wrote:
RavenWolf wrote:
So you can believe this happened to me or not. I really don't care who believes me! I know for a FACT that this happened to me! Nothing was against Scripture. Though He did inform me that He was not happy with what had turned into 'organized religion'. !

Well RW, I believe something happened to you. I underlined that one part and wondered if you were familiar with the story of Joseph Smith ( Mormons ) ? If you are not, I encourage you to read about his encounters with Jesus.

That said, I don't know what happened to you. But I do know that people will be influenced by your words and lifestyle because of what you tell people of your experience. You claim to have had an experience that many of us that claim to be Christians have not. There is more authority and weight to what you say if this is true. There is a almost prophet-like status to your life now because of what happened to you. People may changed there views on church, teaching, teachers, music, movies, etc because they see you have authority to speak on these matters. It goes like this - " hey if ravenwolf can do and think XX and Y, then I can too ! After all, he meet Jesus ! "

...please take my post in the spirit it was intended....and I'm sorry for breaking my promise to not post in this thread.

I live in Utah. I am very familiar with the Mormon creed. I have many Mormon friends and you probably won't believe this ... but they love Jesus too! They believe in Jesus and they also believe He is God! I consider Mormons to be Christians. Though Jehovah Witness's are not. They believe Jesus is NOT God. Mormons believe He IS God. I want to invite my Mormon friends to this board, but I've decided not to because of all the judgmentalism they would probably ... sadly ... receive.

Having said that about Mormons ... I am NOT a Mormon at all. I was raised fundamentalist Baptist (Southern Baptist to be precise). I no longer consider myself to be a Baptist though... I am a New Thought Non-Denominational Christian. New Thought is a philosophy, not a religion. Ralph Waldo Emerson, Joel Osteen and Norman Vincent Peale are all New Thought ministers. So it's still Protestant Evangelical, but different. Smile

We believe the Bible is God's Word, but that a lot of God's Word is symbolic, not literal. I spoke with Jesus about this during my time with Him. But I will not disclose anything else about that here in this thread. Feel free to PM me if anyone is interested and I will get back with you as soon as I can. Trying to juggle a career with being a stay at home father isn't always easy ... and can be quite demanding of one's time Razz

As far as a prophet-like status on my life. I was actually prophesied over once as a young man by a true prophet. He did prophesy over me that I would have an experience and that I would be a "Shepherd" one day. So that makes sense. I'm just waiting on God's timing. This happened many years ago. I had almost given up on it.

By the way, I am not opposed to Calvinism, I believe the truth is in the balance between the two. Predestination AND Freewill. If that makes sense. Smile

by crucifyd Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:39 pm

RavenWolf wrote:I am a New Thought Non-Denominational Christian. New Thought is a philosophy, not a religion. Ralph Waldo Emerson, Joel Osteen and Norman Vincent Peale are all New Thought ministers. So it's still Protestant Evangelical, but different.

This may come off as not loving, but I assure you it is nothing but loving. I would very strongly encourage you to look into the teachings of these men as they are rank heretics. They do not teach orthodox biblical Christianity. Do they use the Bible in their teaching? Yes. Do they teach what it really says? No.

by exo Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:52 pm

And at this point, I must utter the dreaded "stay on topic" warning.

"Free grace" vs "whatever"......."Osteen is a heretic".......when threads take that turn, it does not end well, so please consider that conversational direction to be a dead end, and correct the course.....thanks...

by Guest Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:18 pm

crucifyd wrote:
RavenWolf wrote:I am a New Thought Non-Denominational Christian. New Thought is a philosophy, not a religion. Ralph Waldo Emerson, Joel Osteen and Norman Vincent Peale are all New Thought ministers. So it's still Protestant Evangelical, but different.

This may come off as not loving, but I assure you it is nothing but loving. I would very strongly encourage you to look into the teachings of these men as they are rank heretics. They do not teach orthodox biblical Christianity. Do they use the Bible in their teaching? Yes. Do they teach what it really says? No.

Well, perhaps you should re-evaluate your belief system ... because that is not at all what Jesus told me.

But ...I am done with this thread now. If anyone wants to talk to me ... please PM me. I'll get back to each one of you when I can. Thanks. Like I said before, this is something that is pretty private for me. I've not told many people at all. My wife. My brother. Some family and a few close friends. That's it. So I will not discuss this in public here again. Though I will be writing about it - and it will probably be released one day. Feel free to pick up a copy if you want to! Smile

by crucifyd Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:42 pm

exo wrote:And at this point, I must utter the dreaded "stay on topic" warning.

"Free grace" vs "whatever"......."Osteen is a heretic".......when threads take that turn, it does not end well, so please consider that conversational direction to be a dead end, and correct the course.....thanks...

sorry, I wasn't thinking of taking the thread off topic or not, just following the flow...

will keep staying on topic in mind in the future...

by ThomasEversole Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:20 am

sentient 6 wrote:
Thomas in all fairness, your posts can be laced with judgment at times. Its just not the type we are all used too. Ones that many here have not picked up on.

sentient 6 wrote:
I'm not sure if you are aware of it, but this is a judgment. In essence, you are saying people like me do not hear from God from those " papers. " You are saying that what we claim as being led by God through those " papers " is not a valid experience.

If I was judging, I'd be saying its (clearly) "wrong". My "churchianity" comments was just posting an observation.
Many here haven't "picked up on it/my judgement" because, again, I'm only stating an observation.

...and I didn't name you specifically.

sentient 6 wrote:
I personally would rather trust the words of my Lord, Prophets and Apostles over the words of men that are given to me today.

I personally wouldn't pit one against the other.

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What level of secular metal lyrics do you accept?