Bands With Reformed Theology

So as not to derail the Luther's Hammer thread, I figured it'd be good to start a separate thread discussing Christian metal bands who are coming from a specifically Reformed/Calvinist understanding.  So other than Luther's Hammer and Epta Astera... what are some other bands coming from this perspective?

BTA, Wolves at the Gate.

What a fascinating question!  I always assume no band is coming from a reformed perspective, 
but I will be watching this thread with interest to see what bands might be doing so.

TULIP

https://wearetulip.bandcamp.com/album/tulip-ep

No, seriously! And I guess by proxy Monolith?

And do you mean Reformed/Calvinist as opposed to Lutheran? Pelagian? Arminian? Catholic? Evangelical? Or broadly following the reformation tradition.

What criteria would you use? The 5 points? That's a starting point, I suppose. Would you include references to the 3 forms of unity, the Westminister confession, etc? 

I do think you would be more likely to find artist who actually hold to a Reformation view of Christianity in Metal/Hard Rock than in CCM, ie more per capita not necessarily quantity. 

Very interested to see what else is out there!

Yeah, when I think of capital-R "Reformed" that would be referring primarily to Presbyterians or others who would hold to the Three Forms of Unity/Westminster Standards. There's a sense in which Lutherans could be considered "reformed" as their theological tradition does obviously have its roots in the Reformation as well. I would be hesitant to apply the label "Reformed" to the whole New Calvinist movement which seeks to combine the five points with a dangerous charismatic bent.

It seems that there is a plethora of Reformed Christian hip-hop artists, but much Christian metal (at least in the vein that I listen to, which is mostly death and black) is rarely blatantly theological, so it is hard to tell. (There's really an over-emphasis on "killing demons" which I think is silly, since biblically speaking we are supposed to be killing sin and resisting the world, the flesh, and the devil...)

Edit: Thanks for sharing that TULIP band! That sounds awesome.
2nd edit: After reading what Constantine said, I think I'll hold off on considering purchasing their music...

^Hate to be the party pooper (although I actually don't mind, lol) - but I'm checking Tulip out now and read a few interviews with them. They apparently have turned their back on the church after the 2 principals left their respective spouses to marry each other and they rejected church discipline or counseling about what had transpired. Sounds like they are struggling with faith issues and that it would not be accurate to call them a Christian band at this time. Anyone is welcome to double-check my research to see if that's correct.

I don't know for sure, I only have a few bands that would more or less be compatible with the Reformed description.

Gloriam Dei showcases really good theology, but when it comes to denomination I think they are lutheran. But lutheranism can differ between countries, and also within countries. I'm thinking of a faithful servant of the Lord here in Germany, Olaf Latzel, who is lutheran but gets crap even from his own (big) lutheran denomination for defending biblical marriage.

Anyone know about Matt Smith by the way? I am from a calvinist background, and I have thought lots of times that even my father could not disagree with the lyrics, even though he despises metal.

That's it for now, I'd have to look in my CD collection for more potential examples.

It's interesting to think about this and how rare any band singing about their theology is. Most bands are addressing consequences of sin. Even the presentation of the gospel in a full way is rare (repentance, atonement, new birth, etc.). Most of the time bands are just presenting Christ as Savior without teaching what that means (if they preach Him at all). I'm not being judgmental. I think in many ways it just doesn't seem like the place for it (a 3-5 minute song). At least, that's the way bands seem to take it.

Speaking of that, My Epic, Dens, and Attalus who are all post hardcore bands on Facedown have wonderful, rich theology but it presents itself in the context of life. My Epic's album Behold had an incredibly high view of God presented within it, almost as a large concept album, but that album was an exception. Dens wrote a full album examining many of the characteristics of God. They were concept albums though. Most bands are reaching an audience dealing with real world issues and their theology is merely under how they address them (like Den' new album).

A long post made short, I actually think it's very rare to truly hear the theology of a band in their lyrics. I bet there are more reformed persons in bands than I know. I just can't perceive it. Others wouldn't even have a label for their theology. I didn't even know what Calvinism/Arminianism were 11 years ago and I've spent my life in church.

Even in preaching, I don't think you would "know" that I have that bend to my theology when listening to my preaching. You'd have to know the difference, be listening for it and trying to sort it out. I preach Christ. The message just tends to have an undergirding that bears out my theology.

Constantine wrote:^Hate to be the party pooper (although I actually don't mind, lol) - but I'm checking Tulip out now and read a few interviews with them.  They apparently have turned their back on the church after the 2 principals left their respective spouses to marry each other and they rejected church discipline or counseling about what had transpired.  Sounds like they are struggling with faith issues and that it would not be accurate to call them a Christian band at this time.   Anyone is welcome to double-check my research to see if that's correct.

 I am so disappointed by this, I had no idea... I really enjoyed the EP but haven't listened to the singles where presumably they succumb to their fleshly desires (there but for the grace of God go I).

I would rather a band have a rich theology as FrozenFire stated, that one can read and then check out the specifics for yourself. For instance, I would reject a band that blatantly taught a works/law-based salvation as quickly as I would an openly satanic band. That being said, I do like the cryptic almost Psalm like lyrics of Antestor and Crimson Moonlight. They don't wear their theology on their sleeve but it clearly under-girds what they write. It also leads me to give them the benefit of the doubt when reading a lyric that I don't understand.

I've been blessed by multiple Seventh Avenue songs.  Renascent, Slave Eye, Grave Declaration, while not explicitly Reformed, seem to be unobjectionable with a strongly evangelical bent. Pantokrator/Melech have great lyrics as well, though I don't know if they are Reformed, more likely Lutheran or broadly evangelical. 

Great thread.

Frozen Fire wrote:It's interesting to think about this and how rare any band singing about their theology is. Most bands are addressing consequences of sin. Even the presentation of the gospel in a full way is rare (repentance, atonement, new birth, etc.). Most of the time bands are just presenting Christ as Savior without teaching what that means (if they preach Him at all). I'm not being judgmental. I think in many ways it just doesn't seem like the place for it (a 3-5 minute song). At least, that's the way bands seem to take it.

Speaking of that, My Epic, Dens, and Attalus who are all post hardcore bands on Facedown have wonderful, rich theology but it presents itself in the context of life. My Epic's album Behold had an incredibly high view of God presented within it, almost as a large concept album, but that album was an exception. Dens wrote a full album examining many of the characteristics of God. They were concept albums though. Most bands are reaching an audience dealing with real world issues and their theology is merely under how they address them (like Den' new album).

A long post made short, I actually think it's very rare to truly hear the theology of a band in their lyrics. I bet there are more reformed persons in bands than I know. I just can't perceive it. Others wouldn't even have a label for their theology. I didn't even know what Calvinism/Arminianism were 11 years ago and I've spent my life in church.

Even in preaching, I don't think you would "know" that I have that bend to my theology when listening to my preaching. You'd have to know the difference, be listening for it and trying to sort it out. I preach Christ. The message just tends to have an undergirding that bears out my theology.

I would have to agree with this as well.  You only have a short time in a song to convey a message.  So, you want to get a message out that will hit the most people while still pointing them towards Jesus.  Your prescribed theology will most likely be in there in little pieces, but most straightforward Christian lyrics in metal seem to be more like an evangelical approach to introduce people to Christ--not to disciple them in your traditions.

^True, but even in the most central/core aspects of Christianity, those nuances can be at the forefront.  For example, a song about getting saved would very possibly at least mention either God doing the saving or from one's own free will.  Likewise, warnings to prevent actions that might lead to losing one's salvation could make a pretty "metal" song if you're of the Arminian persuasion.

For me personally, I listen to a pretty broad spectrum of Christian bands, but of course I enjoy and am edified most by lyrics that match with my understanding of what is most correct theologically.

Kerrick - thanks for continuing the conversation in this thread.  Theologically, I'm actually a Reformed Baptist along the lines of Charles Spurgeon and the 1689 London Baptist Confession, but I embrace and identify with my Reformed brothers and sisters from other denominations.

As to the question at hand regarding bands from the Reformed perspective, I have said for many years now that the main reason why I even know about reformed theology is because of the band Precious Death, and specifically, Chris Scott.  The liner notes for Precious Death and Blackball were the first things to point me toward specific theologians and important books to read.  I truly praise God that those albums came onto my radar.  I was one of those kids that scoured liner notes for lyrics and every little detail down to the thank yous from band members, and it always intrigued me that Chris Scott would use that space to promote great theologians and theological works.  When I decided that I was interested in learning more about biblical theology and doctrine, I figured that starting with what Chris Scott recommended was as good a starting place as any.

I remember telling a friend that I'm going to ride this theological horse as far as it would take me, and well, I guess I never got off that horse because I fell in love with reformed theology and realized that it was the truest expression of biblical theology I could find.  I ended up going to seminary and studying the Bible in depth, and I just couldn't get away from this thing that we call reformed theology.

While I have since been influenced by many giants of the faith, such as Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ulrich Zwingli, John Owen, Jonathan Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, B.B. Warfield, A.W. Pink, Francis Schaeffer, J.I. Packer, John Piper, R.C. Sproul, John MacArthur, James White, Albert Mohler, etc., I have to say again that aside from the will of God himself, the reason I even know what reformed theology is goes back to those days of listening to metal from Chris Scott and Precious Death.

Soli Deo Gloria!

^That's awesome. I got into the Christian metal forums because of a thank you section in an album. One Armath Sargon album I have mentions this forum and also The Blackened Hymns, which is now defunct but was at that time a forum specific to Christian black metal that I ended up joining.

I grew up in a very non-doctrinal environment. It wasn't that doctrine was looked down upon, as the church of my childhood affirmed the core gospel and all of its essentials such as the trinity, the hypostatic union, etc. However, the teaching never really went very deep beyond the absolute basics. It was very man-focused and all about how to live well. Obviously we should apply Scripture to our lives and live how God wants us to live, but we should also strive to know Him. I like sermons that are about God Himself, and not just about us. I went to a different church in middle and high school that was going off the rails into liberalism. It was a negative environment and I regret spending six years there.

Now I go to a Christian university that is very zealous for the true gospel and also for deeper doctrinal study. They are Baptist (non-Reformed but Calvinist-leaning, still dispensational though) but they accidentally gave me a little push towards Reformed theology. After enough study, I eventually became a Presbyterian and am very blessed in my current church environment. Soli Deo Gloria indeed!

I forgot about Precious Death doing that, I always thought that was cool. I lean Reformed Baptist but there's non in our town.

CrimsonWarrior wrote:I like sermons that are about God Himself, and not just about us.

Yes!

Honestly I wish there were more bands and quality artists that had their song lyrics bent this way. They are few and far between. I tend to love the old hymns because the rich theology and how often they exalt God primarily.

Most modern worship songs/bands have that U2 "Joshua Tree," Coldplay, bland singer songwriter sound and sing songs about us and what God does for us, rather than who He is. "Grace, grace, grace, love, love, love, I was broken but Jesus will solve all my problems." This is parody is brutal because of how true it is:



A love that Christian metal addresses topics that are very real to everyone's experience whether good or bad. There's been a lot of ministry through that approach through the years. Unfortunately, many Christian bands today, especially in the Christian hardcore/metalcore scene, have turned to "Here's the issue. I'm here for you and understand you and I'm angry about it and broken by it also..." There's no message, no hope and much of it is just plain angry.

I'd love this thread to be filled with bands that have incredible lyrics. I listen to things outside my style for that reason. It's the reason why I listen to My Epic, recently got into some Michael Card, and dove into some Christian rap years ago. If the words are deeply rooted and the music is good for what it is, I can find a way to enjoy it.

Kerrick wrote:^True, but even in the most central/core aspects of Christianity, those nuances can be at the forefront.  For example, a song about getting saved would very possibly at least mention either God doing the saving or from one's own free will.  Likewise, warnings to prevent actions that might lead to losing one's salvation could make a pretty "metal" song if you're of the Arminian persuasion.

For me personally, I listen to a pretty broad spectrum of Christian bands, but of course I enjoy and am edified most by lyrics that match with my understanding of what is most correct theologically.

Why does it always have to be either or w/you people? As if the two are opposed to each other.

Pro-Zak wrote:

Kerrick wrote:^True, but even in the most central/core aspects of Christianity, those nuances can be at the forefront.  For example, a song about getting saved would very possibly at least mention either God doing the saving or from one's own free will.  Likewise, warnings to prevent actions that might lead to losing one's salvation could make a pretty "metal" song if you're of the Arminian persuasion.

For me personally, I listen to a pretty broad spectrum of Christian bands, but of course I enjoy and am edified most by lyrics that match with my understanding of what is most correct theologically.

Why does it always have to be either or w/you people? As if the two are opposed to each other.

No one within the realm of orthodoxy is claiming that man does the work of salvation all on his own, and God does none of it. It's really just monergism vs. synergism - is the work of salvation God's and God's alone, or is it cooperation between God and man? Calvinism is the former, and Arminianism the latter. I remember seeing a quote that went something along the lines of "the only thing you contribute to your salvation is the sin that made it necessary." That's Reformed monergism in a nutshell. God chose a subset of humanity to save from sin before He even laid the foundation of the world. Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of their sins and rose for their justification, and God, through His sovereign control over the world, brings the gospel to them and gives them faith and saves them and adopts them as His own children. He sanctifies them and conforms them to the image of Christ, and ensures that not one of His sheep will be lost. This doesn't mean that we are to idly sit by, of course, but we humbly recognize that we did nothing of ourselves to earn God's favor or even initiate it - we would never have turned to Him if he hadn't regenerated us first. And so now we kill sin and resist the world, the flesh, and the devil, and seek to bring the gospel to others, that by God's grace they may repent and believe upon Jesus Christ.

You know that Calvinism/Arminianism are not the only two options w/in Christendom...

Pro-Zak wrote:You know that Calvinism/Arminianism are not the only two options w/in Christendom...

True.  There will always be more "isms" to divide the body of Christ as we argue over who is most/least correct as we all believe our interpretation came from the heart and mind of God.

Pro-Zak wrote:You know that Calvinism/Arminianism are not the only two options w/in Christendom...

Yes, I guess I did not word that very well in my original post. The categories of monergism and synergism (into which Calvinism and Arminianism fall, respectively) are mutually exclusive though, but there are other viewpoints that fit into there (Lutherans are monergists for example). Since Arminianism is basically the negation of Calvinism (when you express it in the five points), I think the focus tends to shift to those two because of how opposite they are. But you are correct that there are other soteriological viewpoints.

Pro-Zak wrote:

Kerrick wrote:^True, but even in the most central/core aspects of Christianity, those nuances can be at the forefront.  For example, a song about getting saved would very possibly at least mention either God doing the saving or from one's own free will.  Likewise, warnings to prevent actions that might lead to losing one's salvation could make a pretty "metal" song if you're of the Arminian persuasion.

For me personally, I listen to a pretty broad spectrum of Christian bands, but of course I enjoy and am edified most by lyrics that match with my understanding of what is most correct theologically.

Why does it always have to be either or w/you people? As if the two are opposed to each other.

I never said it was either/or.    But within the realm of Protestant Christianity, it usually does boil down to one of those two - at least that I've seen.  Regardless, I didn't intend on this thread being a theological debate but rather just a thread where like-minded folks can discover new bands with lyrics they/we might especially appreciate.  I can think of a few bands with Catholic members/lyrics I can recommend if you want to start a similar thread for bands of that persuasion. 

I think a thread about Catholic bands is a great idea. I know a few.

Constantine wrote:I think a thread about Catholic bands is a great idea.   I know a few.

Metal, good?

Andreas89 wrote:Gloriam Dei showcases really good theology, but when it comes to denomination I think they are lutheran.

You are absolutely right. Actually there is two priests in the band, guitarist Jarmo and their keyboardist and main songwriter Johannes.

Pro-Zak wrote:

Constantine wrote:I think a thread about Catholic bands is a great idea.   I know a few.

Metal, good?

Yes, but they are mostly going to be bands that we already know of that are not identified as Catholic but should be to be more accurate.   Bands like Eterna, Illuminandi, Nomad Son, Forsaken, Veni Domine, etc.