The Pope talk'n war and weapons

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-says-weapons-manufacturers-cant-call-themselves-christian-184139430.html


....ooh really ?

I assume those who manufacture weapons knowing they will stop murder and genocide should give up because, in his eyes, that person's not a very good Christian?
The pope, here, is off his rocker.

Could it be a mistranslation/misinterpretation? Perhaps he meant manufacturers of weapons of mass destruction rather than common defense weapons.  I would pause and seek more info before jumping to conclusions.

Parched Earth wrote:Could it be a mistranslation/misinterpretation? Perhaps he meant manufacturers of weapons of mass destruction rather than common defense weapons.  I would pause and seek more info before jumping to conclusions.

But where's the fun in that for the Catholic bashers?

Candlemass wrote:

But where's the fun in that for the Catholic bashers?

...same kind of fun those word of faith bashers have.

Seriously, you're going to put those huxters in the same boat as Catholics?

Parched Earth wrote:Could it be a mistranslation/misinterpretation? Perhaps he meant manufacturers of weapons of mass destruction rather than common defense weapons.  I would pause and seek more info before jumping to conclusions.

I don't think anyone made any conclusions....yet.

Candlemass wrote:Seriously, you're going to put those huxters in the same boat as Catholics?

Yes

Candlemass wrote:Seriously, you're going to put those huxters in the same boat as Catholics?

Whether its warranted or not is the point. There are people that sincerely believe that stuff too. But anyway, manipulation is manipulation. Whethers a name it or claim it, or indulgences.

Parched Earth wrote: Perhaps he meant manufacturers of weapons of mass destruction rather than common defense weapons.

In principle, whats the difference between a manufacturer of bullets and grenades ?

sentient 6 wrote:

Candlemass wrote:Seriously, you're going to put those huxters in the same boat as Catholics?

Whether its warranted or not is the point. There are people that sincerely believe that stuff too. But anyway, manipulation is manipulation. Whethers a name it or claim it, or indulgences.

So the Church's wealth is made in indulgences, and all the clergy are living in the lap of luxury like the Copelands, Hinns and the Osteeens of the world, and you really think the motives are the same?

Yay! More free-for-all theological debates!

There's a time and place for everything. Yet, I can understand his sentiments. War is an ugly thing and those who contribute to it ought to consider what they are doing. Those who promulgate and profit from war do Satan's work. On the other hand, I don't think a man removes himself from Christendom in working for the common defense. The pope seems to be painting with a broad brush to call one who makes weapon not Christian.

sentient 6 wrote:

Candlemass wrote:Seriously, you're going to put those huxters in the same boat as Catholics?

Whether its warranted or not is the point. There are people that sincerely believe that stuff too. But anyway, manipulation is manipulation. Whethers a name it or claim it, or indulgences.

What about naming and claiming indulgences? I wonder how one can sow that kind of seed? I guess you buy a small one from a priest and then give it to someone like Hinn and then just watch that 30/60/100 fold increase come back. Then, what to do with all those indulgences? Investment! Bankroll your own treasury of merit trust fund!?


As crass as this sounds is how I feel about that kind of manipulation.

Of course it can be abused like anything, unlike the "100 fold", which is total BS from the start.

Personally, I couldn't care less about indulgences, they mean absolutely nothing to me.

Candlemass wrote:Seriously, you're going to put those huxters in the same boat as Catholics?

We're all in the same boat, brutha. And if Jesus ain't drivin' it, we're all in trouble.

Boom.

metaldude wrote:

Candlemass wrote:Seriously, you're going to put those huxters in the same boat as Catholics?

We're all in the same boat, brutha. And if Jesus ain't drivin' it, we're all in trouble.

No, we're not...

I wonder why this cookie always has a chip on his shoulder.

sentient 6 wrote:

Parched Earth wrote: Perhaps he meant manufacturers of weapons of mass destruction rather than common defense weapons.

In principle, whats the difference between a manufacturer of bullets and grenades ?

I don't know if I could really formulate an adequate answer, as this is not something I have put a great deal of thought into.  Personally, I am uncomfortable with weapons and war.  But I also recognize the idea of a just war and defending oneself as potential goods.

After reading a lengthier quote, it seems to me the Pope was pointing out the hypocrisy of those who profit from unjust wars, while refusing to intervene in situations that would be just because it would not profit them.  Could he have stated it more clearly?  Probably.

Parched Earth wrote:

sentient 6 wrote:

Parched Earth wrote: Perhaps he meant manufacturers of weapons of mass destruction rather than common defense weapons.

In principle, whats the difference between a manufacturer of bullets and grenades ?

I don't know if I could really formulate an adequate answer, as this is not something I have put a great deal of thought into.  Personally, I am uncomfortable with weapons and war.  But I also recognize the idea of a just war and defending oneself as potential goods.

After reading a lengthier quote, it seems to me the Pope was pointing out the hypocrisy of those who profit from unjust wars, while refusing to intervene in situations that would be just because it would not profit them.  Could he have stated it more clearly?  Probably.

Research and development can't be stopped at the end of the last just war and started up at the next to be prepared.  R&D is long, arduous and not linear.  The time spent developing can't be shortened to answer the call of freedom to respond to the next attack.  It'd be nice if this wasn't reality, but it is.
That being said, we did try to stop R&D, or at least reduce it immensely, and we saw what happened.  I'll give you a hint: it involved 19 bearded men, a few planes and a few towers.  He is naive and this is likely because of the culture in which he grew up, down in South America.  He's probably still bitter over Britain destroying the Argentinian military in the '80s.

Peter who was Vaak wrote:  He's probably still bitter over Britain destroying the Argentinian military in the '80s.

Ah, now that is exactly what Jesus meant about an unrighteous judgment.

A snide comment at the end doesn't take away from the veracity of the rest.
That being said, I shouldn't have said that.

Peter who was Vaak wrote:Research and development can't be stopped at the end of the last just war and started up at the next to be prepared.  R&D is long, arduous and not linear.  The time spent developing can't be shortened to answer the call of freedom to respond to the next attack.  It'd be nice if this wasn't reality, but it is.

I would tend to agree with you on this point.  Though, I think there is a difference between research and development and selling arms to keep an unjust war going.  I'm just speaking hypothetically here.  I have no particular example of this occurring in mind.