Peter from Extol's religious views

Hi. I'm not trying to cause any issues or create any drama. And don't judge anyone on what they believe. But do have a question. 

Does anyone know where in 2023 Peter from extols religious views stand? It seems like it goes from anywhere to believing to believing but having a society focus but still believing to almost not l even believing in the Lord anymore. I agree with some of the stuff he said on that one podcast, but sometjjnts seemed really odd. And in the 2023 interview I think he was talking about jesus, but couldn't really tell. Very vague. 

Normally I wouldn't care, but I find it hard to listen to allt of their music like a gift beyond human reach, open the gates, blood red cover etc which has very Christian and spiritual lyrics if he no longer believes them. I just can't listen to music by people that no longer believes what they wrote. Silly I know. And I love extol so I'm in a conundrum. 

Thanks

It's not silly.  If your gut is bothering you regarding them, heed it.

I think the thread we covered this in before had what I wanted say on the topic. So, I don't want to repeat myself too much.

A basic summary from my end: Peter has "deconstructed" his faith. Some people might think of that as stripping away the political, societal, cultural junk, and stripping down to biblical basics but that's not what deconstructing typically means. It means breaking away from biblical ideas but holding certain universal ideals. Richard Rohr is a key figure in this worldwide movement and his concept of the "Universal Christ" allows many to speak of God and Jesus in their views but more as a concept. It is a form of modern gnostic/mystical belief with a Christian overlay. Oprah Winfrey is a popularizer of his teachings and the book/movie The Shack bears some of those teachings out. I'm not sure where exactly Peter is at but he seems to be in that area. He can speak of God and Jesus but use pronouns like "she" and "it" as easy as "he" and claim to still believe but know that he just believes in a different way than what he once believed. It was clear in the podcast that when others heard his views they considered him as having lost his faith, while he considered his faith as expanded in some way. The worship artist John Mark McMillan followed this same route and still puts out "Christian" music, though I don't consider it that anymore.

Having not heard more from Peter since, from what he's expressed in the last two years, I would consider him as a syncretist and still searching.

As for what that means for me and the band? I will still listen to the older material. They had some amazing, thought provoking, challenging lyrics in the past. The Ep tracks were vague and mushy. I didn't really bother with the Ep as a result, though I would have said Extol was my favorite band. I will wait for further information and the full length before I really go farther.

I can't and won't pin Peter down on anything. These are just my thoughts and how I'm moving forward.

It's just music and that's all there is to it. Enjoy it, life's too short not to.

Dustofyears wrote:It's just music and that's all there is to it. Enjoy it, life's too short not to.

Everyone lives by standards, including yourself. Life's too short to try and enjoy something that violates your standards.

Dustofyears wrote:It's just music and that's all there is to it. Enjoy it, life's too short not to.

For me personally, one way Iike to interact with the Lord is to listen to music, whether it be gospel music or extol. A gift beyond human reach for example. About how much the Lord gives us and being grateful. But I don't feel comfortable interacting with the Lord in that nature if what I'm listening to is sung by someone who doesn't believe it. I wouldn't go to a sermon or listen to a pastor that doesn't believe what he is saying, so to me this would be no different. That is why I'm trying to figure it out. 


I do however, compliment your ability to seoerate the two and am happy you are able to do so.

Frozen Fire wrote:I think the thread we covered this in before had what I wanted say on the topic. So, I don't want to repeat myself too much.

A basic summary from my end: Peter has "deconstructed" his faith. Some people might think of that as stripping away the political, societal, cultural junk, and stripping down to biblical basics but that's not what deconstructing typically means. It means breaking away from biblical ideas but holding certain universal ideals. Richard Rohr is a key figure in this worldwide movement and his concept of the "Universal Christ" allows many to speak of God and Jesus in their views but more as a concept. It is a form of modern gnostic/mystical belief with a Christian overlay. Oprah Winfrey is a popularizer of his teachings and the book/movie The Shack bears some of those teachings out. I'm not sure where exactly Peter is at but he seems to be in that area. He can speak of God and Jesus but use pronouns like "she" and "it" as easy as "he" and claim to still believe but know that he just believes in a different way than what he once believed. It was clear in the podcast that when others heard his views they considered him as having lost his faith, while he considered his faith as expanded in some way. The worship artist John Mark McMillan followed this same route and still puts out "Christian" music, though I don't consider it that anymore.

Having not heard more from Peter since, from what he's expressed in the last two years, I would consider him as a syncretist and still searching.

As for what that means for me and the band? I will still listen to the older material. They had some amazing, thought provoking, challenging lyrics in the past. The Ep tracks were vague and mushy. I didn't really bother with the Ep as a result, though I would have said Extol was my favorite band. I will wait for further information and the full length before I really go farther.

I can't and won't pin Peter down on anything. These are just my thoughts and how I'm moving forward.

Thank you for the response. Alot of good info. And some things I def. Need to research and Learn about. When it comes to the Rohr concept you mentioned, that it seems he is at, do they actually believe in God and Jesus and heaven as real, or do they believe in them in more of a failsafe. If that makes sense. I don't know how to feel about that Rohrs view. As like alot of things, some of it makes some sense, but when they into the gnostic/mystic stuff it loses me. 

The thing that keeps throwing me off the most is one of the new songs, to me, seems like it says that he may leave the path of Christ, but always has community with him to lead him. That comes across to me like he doesn't need Christ or the Lord and that is where I get really weird about it. Maybe I'm not understanding the song the right way though. 

It's just tough cause extol means a lot to me, them and antestor are my favorite bands but I'm struggling ATM to enjoy extol because of the doubt.

When it comes to faith, “deconstructing” is just a euphemism for “destroying.” It generally means abandoning Christian faith in favor of a postmodern “god” one creates in their own image

Maddierecords1 wrote:

Frozen Fire wrote:I think the thread we covered this in before had what I wanted say on the topic. So, I don't want to repeat myself too much.

A basic summary from my end: Peter has "deconstructed" his faith. Some people might think of that as stripping away the political, societal, cultural junk, and stripping down to biblical basics but that's not what deconstructing typically means. It means breaking away from biblical ideas but holding certain universal ideals. Richard Rohr is a key figure in this worldwide movement and his concept of the "Universal Christ" allows many to speak of God and Jesus in their views but more as a concept. It is a form of modern gnostic/mystical belief with a Christian overlay. Oprah Winfrey is a popularizer of his teachings and the book/movie The Shack bears some of those teachings out. I'm not sure where exactly Peter is at but he seems to be in that area. He can speak of God and Jesus but use pronouns like "she" and "it" as easy as "he" and claim to still believe but know that he just believes in a different way than what he once believed. It was clear in the podcast that when others heard his views they considered him as having lost his faith, while he considered his faith as expanded in some way. The worship artist John Mark McMillan followed this same route and still puts out "Christian" music, though I don't consider it that anymore.

Having not heard more from Peter since, from what he's expressed in the last two years, I would consider him as a syncretist and still searching.

As for what that means for me and the band? I will still listen to the older material. They had some amazing, thought provoking, challenging lyrics in the past. The Ep tracks were vague and mushy. I didn't really bother with the Ep as a result, though I would have said Extol was my favorite band. I will wait for further information and the full length before I really go farther.

I can't and won't pin Peter down on anything. These are just my thoughts and how I'm moving forward.

Thank you for the response. Alot of good info. And some things I def. Need to research and Learn about. When it comes to the Rohr concept you mentioned, that it seems he is at, do they actually believe in God and Jesus and heaven as real, or do they believe in them in more of a failsafe. If that makes sense. I don't know how to feel about that Rohrs view. As like alot of things, some of it makes some sense, but when they into the gnostic/mystic stuff it loses me. 

The thing that keeps throwing me off the most is one of the new songs, to me, seems like it says that he may leave the path of Christ, but always has community with him to lead him. That comes across to me like he doesn't need Christ or the Lord and that is where I get really weird about it. Maybe I'm not understanding the song the right way though. 

It's just tough cause extol means a lot to me, them and antestor are my favorite bands but I'm struggling ATM to enjoy extol because of the doubt.

I only mention Richard Rohr not because Peter subscribes to him but because his style of postmodern, feelings based, mystical belief with a Christian sheen has become popular. Over the past 10-15 years he's become a superstar amongst "ex-vangelicals," "deconstructed Christians," and media superstars like Bono, Rob Bell, and Oprah. Richard Rohr does not believe in hell, believes all will go to heaven for being good. The "Universal Christ" transcends Jesus (who is the being who most clearly manifested this Christ-like nature). The Universal Christ is found in all religions and even beyond religion, wherever kindness and goodness are found. He's worth taking note of if you want to understand the progression of post-modern faith.

As for your concerns with the new material. I agree. Peter is definitely riddle with questions and, in that song, seems to be trusting more in community than anything. If you ever watch the Extol documentary "Of Light and Shade" it is helpful to understand Peter has faced extreme bouts of paralyzing fear of flight, stage, even large people groups in general. He has an exceedingly complex mental history. There is more going on than just struggles with faith.

seth wrote:When it comes to faith, “deconstructing” is just a euphemism for “destroying.”  It generally means abandoning Christian faith in favor of a postmodern “god” one creates in their own image

For the most part this is true although the person doing the "deconstruction" of their faith might insist that they are "closer to Jesus than ever."  

I dated a gal a few years back and somewhere along the way she got heavily into this "deconstruction" thing and it was downhill from there.   In addition to Richard Rohr and Rob Bell, her hero was Rachel Held Evans (who later died at age 37).  This gal and I had to break up because she wanted to devote herself to un-Biblical causes.  Yet she still insisted for a few years after that her version of faith was correct and that the rest of us were the unenlightened ones.

It’s easy to say you’re closer to Jesus than ever when the “Jesus” you’re talking about isn’t the real Jesus but a construct of your own mind

Frozen Fire wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:It's just music and that's all there is to it. Enjoy it, life's too short not to.

Everyone lives by standards, including yourself. Life's too short to try and enjoy something that violates your standards.

IT"S. JUST. MUSIC!!!

Music is art, and art has meaning. It is perfectly reasonable for someone to avoid art whose meaning is in opposition to your core values. As for situations where the art is not objectionable but the artist’s beliefs are objectionable, that’s a matter of conscience

Dustofyears wrote:

Frozen Fire wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:It's just music and that's all there is to it. Enjoy it, life's too short not to.

Everyone lives by standards, including yourself. Life's too short to try and enjoy something that violates your standards.

IT"S. JUST. MUSIC!!!

By saying that, you yourself are making a value judgment and living by a specific standard. You're claiming music to be morally neutral, which, true or not, is a moral claim. None of us can avoid doing this type of thing. So why should we encourage others to violate their moral compass just because we might have a different view?

*Eye roll*

I get your point. If there was music about Allah and mudslims etc I woudn't buy it because I hate that religion more than any. Juss ugh... never mind, ok everyone has the right to listen to whatever they want guess. My "Moral standard is music is just music that's why I can even listen to Christian metal etc, it doesn't bother me unless it gets Stryper bad! I just treat it like the satanic stuff all fantasy to good sounds. Anyhoo...onwards and upwards.

Dustofyears wrote:*Eye roll*

I get your point. If there was music about Allah and mudslims etc I woudn't buy it because I hate that religion more than any. Juss ugh... never mind, ok everyone has the right to listen to whatever they want guess. My "Moral standard is music is just music that's why I can even listen to Christian metal etc, it doesn't bother me unless it gets Stryper bad! I just treat it like the satanic stuff all fantasy to good sounds. Anyhoo...onwards and upwards.

Lol yikes. Tells me that it's just music, then says he wouldnt listen to music about a religion he doesn't like. 

Music means different things to different people. Just like movies, TV, books,art, sports etc. 

It's just weird you so passionatly hate the idea of someone valuing music beyond chords. But kudos for u to be able to listen to satanic music that has lyrics about killing Christians if you are one.

Frozen Fire wrote:

Maddierecords1 wrote:

Frozen Fire wrote:I think the thread we covered this in before had what I wanted say on the topic. So, I don't want to repeat myself too much.

A basic summary from my end: Peter has "deconstructed" his faith. Some people might think of that as stripping away the political, societal, cultural junk, and stripping down to biblical basics but that's not what deconstructing typically means. It means breaking away from biblical ideas but holding certain universal ideals. Richard Rohr is a key figure in this worldwide movement and his concept of the "Universal Christ" allows many to speak of God and Jesus in their views but more as a concept. It is a form of modern gnostic/mystical belief with a Christian overlay. Oprah Winfrey is a popularizer of his teachings and the book/movie The Shack bears some of those teachings out. I'm not sure where exactly Peter is at but he seems to be in that area. He can speak of God and Jesus but use pronouns like "she" and "it" as easy as "he" and claim to still believe but know that he just believes in a different way than what he once believed. It was clear in the podcast that when others heard his views they considered him as having lost his faith, while he considered his faith as expanded in some way. The worship artist John Mark McMillan followed this same route and still puts out "Christian" music, though I don't consider it that anymore.

Having not heard more from Peter since, from what he's expressed in the last two years, I would consider him as a syncretist and still searching.

As for what that means for me and the band? I will still listen to the older material. They had some amazing, thought provoking, challenging lyrics in the past. The Ep tracks were vague and mushy. I didn't really bother with the Ep as a result, though I would have said Extol was my favorite band. I will wait for further information and the full length before I really go farther.

I can't and won't pin Peter down on anything. These are just my thoughts and how I'm moving forward.

Thank you for the response. Alot of good info. And some things I def. Need to research and Learn about. When it comes to the Rohr concept you mentioned, that it seems he is at, do they actually believe in God and Jesus and heaven as real, or do they believe in them in more of a failsafe. If that makes sense. I don't know how to feel about that Rohrs view. As like alot of things, some of it makes some sense, but when they into the gnostic/mystic stuff it loses me. 

The thing that keeps throwing me off the most is one of the new songs, to me, seems like it says that he may leave the path of Christ, but always has community with him to lead him. That comes across to me like he doesn't need Christ or the Lord and that is where I get really weird about it. Maybe I'm not understanding the song the right way though. 

It's just tough cause extol means a lot to me, them and antestor are my favorite bands but I'm struggling ATM to enjoy extol because of the doubt.

I only mention Richard Rohr not because Peter subscribes to him but because his style of postmodern, feelings based, mystical belief with a Christian sheen has become popular. Over the past 10-15 years he's become a superstar amongst "ex-vangelicals," "deconstructed Christians," and media superstars like Bono, Rob Bell, and Oprah. Richard Rohr does not believe in hell, believes all will go to heaven for being good. The "Universal Christ" transcends Jesus (who is the being who most clearly manifested this Christ-like nature). The Universal Christ is found in all religions and even beyond religion, wherever kindness and goodness are found. He's worth taking note of if you want to understand the progression of post-modern faith.

As for your concerns with the new material. I agree. Peter is definitely riddle with questions and, in that song, seems to be trusting more in community than anything. If you ever watch the Extol documentary "Of Light and Shade" it is helpful to understand Peter has faced extreme bouts of paralyzing fear of flight, stage, even large people groups in general. He has an exceedingly complex mental history. There is more going on than just struggles with faith.

Thanks again for explaining. I'm gonna read some more about it. The universal Christ idea seems kinda iffy to me, because to me it seems that they believe Jesus wasn't living, or didn't die on the cross for our sins and wasnt ressurected. And I would struggle with that aspect. 

But most of my favorite extol songs, and songs in general are ones that sing the praise of the Lord, so as long as he or any artist believes the Lord is real and honors the Lord, then probably I could get behind it. Cause the lyrics are about being grateful for the Lord. You have a good idea on waiting til the full album to come out to see, cause maybe it's a wide ranging album with many different takes on the Lord, Christianity etc. or maybe it's weird. 

But thanks again for the info. Glad I'm not tbe only one that thought the lyrics kinda seemed like he doesn't need the Lord.

Maddierecords1 wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:*Eye roll*

I get your point. If there was music about Allah and mudslims etc I woudn't buy it because I hate that religion more than any. Juss ugh... never mind, ok everyone has the right to listen to whatever they want guess. My "Moral standard is music is just music that's why I can even listen to Christian metal etc, it doesn't bother me unless it gets Stryper bad! I just treat it like the satanic stuff all fantasy to good sounds. Anyhoo...onwards and upwards.

Lol yikes. Tells me that it's just music, then says he wouldnt listen to music about a religion he doesn't like. 

Music means different things to different people. Just like movies, TV, books,art, sports etc. 

It's just weird you so passionatly hate the idea of someone valuing music beyond chords. But kudos for u to be able to listen to satanic music that has lyrics about killing Christians if you are one.

No actually I don't like any religion but can overlook satanic and christian lyrics etc, as I am use to them having come from that background, almost desensitized you might say, the message is meaningless to me b/c satan and abrahamic gods are a fantasy to my mind, so like in mort scrolls I can tolerate the message b/c they deliver in a cool way, which I dig. It's the equivalent of a band singing about Wizards and dragons and barbarians, I lump it in the fantasy box. Can't stand bands like stryper though.

 Islam, however. is the only thing I will not tolerate in any form!!! This religion is making itself known in the world today more so than it ever has, it's a real trend and threat to the future of humanity, where as no one really cares about Christianity anymore. They had their day. If a death metal band and album came out promoting Allah and Muslims that would be a different story, I could, in no possible way, listen to that even if the music was excellent. I hate that religion with every fiber of my being. And so should you!

Dangerous religion that genuinely wants to take over the world through politics or by force or by population growth and by all these things. If you don't think so open your eyes and see what's going on.

Dustofyears wrote:


 Islam, however. is the only thing I will not tolerate in any form!!! This religion is making itself known in the world today more so than it ever has, it's a real trend and threat to the future of humanity...
If a death metal band and album came out promoting Allah and Muslims that would be a different story, I could, in no possible way, listen to that even if the music was excellent. I hate that religion with every fiber of my being. And so should you!

Dangerous religion that genuinely wants to take over the world through politics or by force or by population growth and by all these things. If you don't think so open your eyes and see what's going on.

This we can agree on!

MagnusPrime wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:


 Islam, however. is the only thing I will not tolerate in any form!!! This religion is making itself known in the world today more so than it ever has, it's a real trend and threat to the future of humanity...
If a death metal band and album came out promoting Allah and Muslims that would be a different story, I could, in no possible way, listen to that even if the music was excellent. I hate that religion with every fiber of my being. And so should you!

Dangerous religion that genuinely wants to take over the world through politics or by force or by population growth and by all these things. If you don't think so open your eyes and see what's going on.

This we can agree on!

That's good glad to hear it.

I’d be more than happy to sit down and chat with you all about this anytime.

Peace, Peter

Glad to hear. Let us know what you’d like to discuss or clarify

psykopet wrote:I’d be more than happy to sit down and chat with you all about this anytime.

Peace, Peter

Since I was the one that startrd this thread and opened the discussion, i just sent you a personal message. If you dont want to talk thru dm ill gladly ask them in this thread. 

Thank you for the time.

Maddierecords1 wrote:

psykopet wrote:I’d be more than happy to sit down and chat with you all about this anytime.

Peace, Peter

Since I was the one that startrd this thread and opened the discussion, i just sent you a personal message. If you dont want to talk thru dm ill gladly ask them in this thread. 

Thank you for the time.

Hey, 

Thanks for our questions on DM. 
Seems like there are more people that have questions so let´s talk here in the open, so more can get something out of it.  
@everyone ---> Feel free to ask whatever questions you have. I´ll answer to the best of my ability  

Peace, Peter

psykopet wrote:

Maddierecords1 wrote:

psykopet wrote:I’d be more than happy to sit down and chat with you all about this anytime.

Peace, Peter

Since I was the one that startrd this thread and opened the discussion, i just sent you a personal message. If you dont want to talk thru dm ill gladly ask them in this thread. 

Thank you for the time.

Hey, 

Thanks for our questions on DM. 
Seems like there are more people that have questions so let´s talk here in the open, so more can get something out of it.  
@everyone ---> Feel free to ask whatever questions you have. I´ll answer to the best of my ability  

Peace, Peter

Thank you Peter!

First, I do want to say I have loved and been moved by so many of the topics covered on Extol's releases and had long considered the band one my favorite Christian metal bands (particularly Undeceived and the Self-titled albums) but I was very interested to hear the struggles, questions, searchings you brought forth in the HM Magazine/BlackSheep Podcast interview and interested in the mighty difficulties you faced that were brought to light in the Of Light and Shade documentary. You've been far more open about these things than most anyone in the metal community and I appreciate that and also recognize that what you have said and gone through that's been made public is only a small part of a really complex person and a complex reality. Thank you for being open and willing to engage. I hope this doesn't devolve and I hope I'm not a part of it if it does.

Personally, I'm most interested in how you would characterize your faith today rather than a stiff set of questions. Yet I can't help but be curious about the Podcast and several statements that have left me a stepping away in all these threads on the CMR.

You mentioned in the Podcast interview that your faith has changed a lot, especially over the previous 15yrs. You stated grew up in church, were a son of missionary parents, a worship leader from a young age, church planter with your bandmate David, etc. and all that lead to the surfacing of questions about what you really believed and what it all meant for you personally. You also mentioned that within those questions the conflict of real-life experience and your conception of God at the time clashed and you said "Long story short, I've deconstructed most of the faith I had back there years ago, to be honest" (Timestamp 36:19-36:52) You went on to say, regarding your deconstruction, that you "tore down everything. Theologically things didn't really make so much sense to me anymore" (37:50-37:59)  Yet it was right there that you digressed talking about how your explanation of your beliefs caused other believers to become sad to hear it. However, you never really got into what specifically your beliefs were/are beyond then referencing that your view of God was much bigger than "he or she or it used to be" (38:19-38:44). The interview digressed again with the hosts pushing their own direction and it left me with a lot of unanswered questions, that I never expected to get answered.

Personally, it seemed for all that had come before and all the conflations of politics and American culture with historic, biblical beliefs that the hosts pressed throughout the interview, that there, at the core, with that final statement I quoted above, your view of God at the time was neither historically Christian nor rooted in Scripture.

Going back to my question above, how would you characterize your faith today in comparison to a Scripture-based view of God, Salvation, Scripture, Humanity, etc.?