Re: Exclusive interview with Ted Kirkpatrick (Tourniquet)

by Temple of Blood Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:10 am

I already know that I am entitled to my INFORMED opinion. I don't need it granted by you, you condescending fool.

What have you EVER done in the world of putting a rock band together and doing anything with it?

by Temple of Blood Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:18 am

5minutes wrote:Lucid Hysteria made some very valid criticisms.

No he didn't. Not a single one.

Ted blocked them.

SO WHAT

Ted's welcome to block whatever and whomever he'd like

Bingo! Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

but most artists understand that criticism comes with the territory.

Getting huffy for the umpteenth time about why Tourniquet doesn't have the same line-up in 2018 as they did in 1980 goes far beyond constructive criticism.

If someone thinks the old members are SO TALENTED .... buy their new music. Ted didn't single anyone from the past out by name and skewer them. He has every right to believe that someone from the past wasn't living up to his standards and to hire new people THAT ARE RECOGNIZED AS GREAT BY THE WORLDWIDE METAL COMMUNITY, not merely a handful of people on his Facebook page or in this tiny community here.

To me, his getting rid of comments like these comes across as petty. But that's just me.

It is. He doesn't have to give you or anyone else the gory details of why band members come and go. It's likely just to spare them embarrassment for not pulling their weight and holding the band back.

by Kerrick Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:40 am

Oy... 5m and TOB, you've made your points, for any continued discussion between you two, please take it to private messages. I've been leaving this thread alone because it's been pretty civil so far. But if it goes much further down hill, it's getting locked.

by messiaen77 Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:10 pm

Ah, I've missed this...

I mean, the Bride album thread let me down with nary a mention of the Universalist themes, and no one mentioning the lack of an animal rights song on this album was surprising, but one way or another, Tourniquet always invites the drama.

by Kerrick Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:55 pm

by 5minutes Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:05 pm

Kerrick wrote:Oy... 5m and TOB, you've made your points, for any continued discussion between you two, please take it to private messages. I've been leaving this thread alone because it's been pretty civil so far. But if it goes much further down hill, it's getting locked.

I have no interest in back-and-forth with anyone. As I've said: he's welcome to his opinion.

by Kerrick Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:22 pm

Great.

by eatbugs Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:47 pm

The most difficult thing for any fanbase of any band is when a band changes lead singers. It raises a lot of concerns/fears, and questions. Remember all of the flack Luke got for simply not being Guy? The initial interview addressed much of this. If Luke's out, fine. As Aaron said, why is none of my business. As a long-time fan I DO want to see Tourniquet continue with stable membership, especially a vocalist.

It's a testament to the skill of everyone involved that Gazing at Medusa sounds like Tourniquet. Contrast the Tourniquet Ark project which is Ted & Friends (correct me if I'm wrong Ted). I'm enjoying it, but doesn't sound anything like Tourniquet. I said in another thread that where Gazing... stands in the Tourniquet catalog will be determined by the test of time. Even then, the bottom of Tourniquet's catalog is still better than almost anything else out there.

by Pro-Zak Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:46 pm

messiaen77 wrote:Ah, I've missed this...

and no one mentioning the lack of an animal rights song on this album was surprising,

I alluded to that...

by Airola Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:54 pm

Ooooh, Tourniquet controversy... and 5minutes is back!
I feel some heavy 2000-2005 flashbacks except back then 5minutes was on the pro-TQT side fighting people who whined about Tourniquet/Ted/Luke/Aaron being this and that. Very Happy

I just had a huge flashback of me arguing with 5minutes where I said Ted is a vegetarian and 5minutes saying nuh-uh, no he isn't. Not 100% sure it was 5minutes though. (And not that I was against his supposed vegetarianism back then)

Oh the memories. A controversy every now and then, even to the point that "Uncensored Tourniquet" board had to be created for some people to vent their frustrations and where Ted came to defend his position and the band like a champ!
And Ted organizing a few group chats before social media was a big thing, and one time having so many people trying to join the chat that the chat room broke down. And the April Fool of a lifetime; Aaron announcing he's leaving the band again - an April Fool prank a month (or maybe a week?) before the actual April Fools Day and then coming back on April Fools Day for a laugh Very Happy

Haven't yet read all the posts after the initial first controversial posts but looks like I'm going for a ride bounce

And if someone missed this link to an awesome audio interview with Aaron and Les Carlsen, please go and listen it:
https://starworldwidenetworks.com/episodes/les-carlsen-and-aaron-guerra
I think I haven't ever heard Aaron as talkative as he is here, and he really sounds like a super nice guy.

by Airola Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:39 pm

5minutes wrote:You're welcome to your opinion.

And Aaron and Ted aren't?

I've now read through the posts and I want to say just one thing I instantly noticed that kinda shows the tone in the whole thing:
You say it's petty for someone to block a person, but then go and post a couple of screenshots from Facebook of the deleted posts. It kinda shows you (or whoever grabbed the screenshots) were thinking beforehand that these will be deleted so I must quickly snap a picture of the posts so that they can be shown later when a situation arises. I think you perhaps should think about that for a moment before coming and calling someone petty.

You know the initial post wasn't just a criticism. It was also an accusation towards other members, past and current, of the band. And if you read the interview you and Jared would know he mentioned that every single time the decisions to let someone go wasn't made solely by Ted. So you and Jared would've known that Aaron was part of that decision too.

It's one thing if someone deletes posts where the bands music or the band members' playing skills are criticized, but it's a whole another thing if someone deletes a post with wildly hypothetical rant that is based more on gossip than reality, and where others than the main target get slapped as collateral damage.

Personally, sure, I get some morbid excitement from reading dirt and gossip and I probably am part of the problem. This thread kinda pains and entertains me at the same time. Sometimes it's pretty tough to have a God desiring yet sinful rotten soul deep within Very Happy

I'm 99% sure you don't know/remember/care who I am, so no need to mention that Very Happy

We've been on same Tourniquet forums at least from 2001 if not earlier. Not that you aren't entitled to change your opinion of the band, but I'm really interested to know what initially had you have this 180 degree change with your views towards Ted and Tourniquet. If you want to share, I'm all ears. I recall you used to be pretty tough against Tourniquet critics. Well, I guess your tone hasn't changed much as this was pretty much the tone you rolled back then too.

Just one more thing, something I really heavily agree with Ted is the use of words "fanboy" and "gimmick".
I haven't ever liked them. Has never served any purpose other than trying to rile things up, and it probably never will.

by Airola Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:50 pm

messiaen77 wrote:Ah, I've missed this...

I mean, the Bride album thread let me down with nary a mention of the Universalist themes, and no one mentioning the lack of an animal rights song on this album was surprising, but one way or another, Tourniquet always invites the drama.

Tourniquet / Bride / Stryper / Roger Martinez / Religion discussion section

That group forms the points of the unholy pentagram that leads a whole forum astray Very Happy

by Lex Metalis Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:55 pm

Seems like I have created a monster, lol

(and I only desired to share my work haha)

by 5minutes Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:27 pm

Airola wrote:Ooooh, Tourniquet controversy... and 5minutes is back!
I feel some heavy 2000-2005 flashbacks except back then 5minutes was on the pro-TQT side fighting people who whined about Tourniquet/Ted/Luke/Aaron being this and that.

I just had a huge flashback of me arguing with 5minutes where I said Ted is a vegetarian and 5minutes saying nuh-uh, no he isn't. Not 100% sure it was 5minutes though. (And not that I was against his supposed vegetarianism back then)

Oh the memories. A controversy every now and then, even to the point that "Uncensored Tourniquet" board had to be created for some people to vent their frustrations and where Ted came to defend his position and the band like a champ!
And Ted organizing a few group chats before social media was a big thing, and one time having so many people trying to join the chat that the chat room broke down. And the April Fool of a lifetime; Aaron announcing he's leaving the band again - an April Fool prank a month (or maybe a week?) before the actual April Fools Day and then coming back on April Fools Day for a laugh

Haven't yet read all the posts after the initial first controversial posts but looks like I'm going for a ride

And if someone missed this link to an awesome audio interview with Aaron and Les Carlsen, please go and listen it:
https://starworldwidenetworks.com/episodes/les-carlsen-and-aaron-guerra
I think I haven't ever heard Aaron as talkative as he is here, and he really sounds like a super nice guy.

Just for the record (I'm really not looking for back-and-forth, but your post brought up a few interesting questions):

I'll cop to having defended the band in the past. Sometimes it was a good idea. Sometimes it wasn't. I know I hurt some people in the process, and that sucks. I should've been smarter, but I wasn't. It's on me. I own it. If I hurt you or anyone else: I am sorry.

I have remained famously agnostic on all the singers. I like Luke's lower register. I liked Guy's more traditional metal approach. I liked Gary's gruffer approach. I like Ripper and Deen's vocals and think that Aaron did a better job on this album than any other. Each vocalist has brought something new and I've been able to appreciate all of them. A lot of the debate at the time was over fans who still wanted the so-called glory days of Guy, Gary, Ted, Victor, and Erik back. It's like KISS fans who want Ace and Peter back with the band for the final tour: it ain't happenin'. And, to be honest, a lot the antagonism came from the split with Firestream. That was hard on everyone and, again, a lot of folks got hurt. I own my part.

Oh - and I never said Ted wasn't vegetarian. At least, not to my knowledge. I think that was someone else. I did say Luke wasn't, but that was based on him saying he liked Pizza Hut pepperoni pizza, which isn't exactly vegetarian.

I'm 99% sure you don't know/remember/care who I am, so no need to mention that

I remember you very well.

And yes: you, as everyone else, is entitled to their opinion.

by Airola Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:48 pm

5minutes wrote:
I'll cop to having defended the band in the past. Sometimes it was a good idea. Sometimes it wasn't. I know I hurt some people in the process, and that sucks. I should've been smarter, but I wasn't. It's on me. I own it. If I hurt you or anyone else: I am sorry.

Never had any personal issue with you so for me everything is ok between us. Was then and is now. Doesn't mean I wouldn't jump in the middle of a discussion or argument if I have something to say but no hard feelings from me.
I really honestly appreciate the gesture though Thumbs up

I was always of the mind that if there's a fire let it burn the whole place down but let's all stand strong on the burned soil together. Too bad when the smoke and dust settled so many had always left. Not that I'm doing much to help these forums to get back up by becoming more and more inactive myself though.

by Pro-Zak Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:14 am

I don't get all that disdain for Crawl to China, I think it's a fine album...

by eatbugs Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:36 am

Sabbatharian wrote:I don't get all that disdain for Crawl to China, I think it's a fine album...

I think it was expectation vs. reality.

It was the farthest the Tourniquet pendulum swung away from thrash (not counting Acoustic Archives or the Carry the Wounded EP), making it the least aggressive studio album. Also, prior to it The Collected Works came out and I remember hearing that "Perfect Night For a Hanging" was going to be the direction of the next album (Crawl to China). It took a while to grow on me for those reasons. Incidentally, it has two of my favorite Tourniquet songs on it (White Knucklin' the Rosary and What If I Was There).

by crucifyd Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:14 am

eatbugs wrote:
Sabbatharian wrote:I don't get all that disdain for Crawl to China, I think it's a fine album...

I think it was expectation vs. reality.

It was the farthest the Tourniquet pendulum swung away from thrash (not counting Acoustic Archives or the Carry the Wounded EP), making it the least aggressive studio album. Also, prior to it The Collected Works came out and I remember hearing that "Perfect Night For a Hanging" was going to be the direction of the next album (Crawl to China). It took a while to grow on me for those reasons. Incidentally, it has two of my favorite Tourniquet songs on it (White Knucklin' the Rosary and What If I Was There).

I agree with this, pretty much how it went for me. I love CTC in it's own right...it was just such a departure from previous Tourniquet...

by Pro-Zak Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:55 am

Little different for me as I did not like StB at all, wasn't into thrash at the time, so I never bothered checking out the band again til I picked up CtC, and I liked it upon first spin. Some time after that, once I was acclimated to thrash metal, then I understood all the love for those early albums. Still prefer the Luke era, Microscopic being my fav.

by 5minutes Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:51 pm

Sabbatharian wrote:I don't get all that disdain for Crawl to China, I think it's a fine album...

Dang it... I keep getting pulled in...

For me, it's not disdain. It's just that the music is, for me, not as enjoyable. It's not the shift in style for the band. Bands can shift styles - and do all the time - and I don't care. I just rate each album for what it is. I don't care if it's just like my favorite album from 30 years ago or something new and original... I'm ready to accept each work of art for what it is.

For me, C2C is a lesser release. It's got some good songs (White Knucklin', C2C, If I Was There, Enveloped, Claustrospelunker) and a few I just can't listen to (Bats is the most notable). For me, it's more of an experimental release, similar to King's X's Manic Moonlight, where the band tries something new and exciting to test their own (and their fans') limits, As a result, you end up with a more disjointed album that's going to be accepted by some and rejected by others. For me, it's middling at best, which for TQT, puts it near the bottom, since most of their albums have been quite good.

Now, I'll caveat my analysis thusly: the version of C2C I have is the remix from the 2000's. I have not heard the original. The remix, tho, is a mixed bag. The production - especially the guitars - seems a bit muddy, similar to how a lot of albums sounded at the time. I will say that this album does have more bass guitar in it than the others, and it's nice to be able to hear the one instrument TQT has discounted most (I've always said that I'd love to hear some of the new albums with a solid, talented bass player who'd dedicated his or her life to the low end). I'd like to hear the original at some point to compare notes.

And in case you care:
1. POD / WMARD
2. PS
3. VL
4. MVOATR / STB / ABB / CW
5. CTW
6. AA
7. G@M / C2C

by Airola Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:44 pm

I'm chiming in for the C2C discussion.

I got to hear the pre-release version of the album. My best friend at that time had an older brother who visited the Cornerstone festival every year. He always brought huge stacks of CDs from those trips. For myself it was the only way to hear any Christian metal whatsoever. It was through his CD collection.

The year C2C was released my friend had asked if he could get Pathogenic Ocular Dissonance from somewhere. When he came back he brought disappointing news: he wasn't able to get that album. We had been listening Stop the Bleeding, Psycho Surgery and Vanishing Lessons over and over again and we knew this Pathogenic album was out there.

On the next day the brother told my friend that yeah, he couldn't get Pathogenic for you......... but here is something else. It was the pre-release version of C2C, signed by Ted with a personal "hello" text for my friend on it.

Listened it through and while the jazz opening took us by surprise we didn't have any issue with the album. We were just glad we got to hear some new Tourniquet.

While most Tourniquet albums have at one point or another been my favorites, I can't really say C2C has ever been one. It's a good album still. And even if it might not be among my favorites it still has a few songs that are some of my all time favorite Tourniquet songs, and frankly some of my all time favorite songs period. For example Going Going Gone is a song I love love love. The album also has the best Aaron Guerra song, Imaginary Friend.

The album has lots of exactly the type of riffs, melody lines and chord progressions I've always loved and still love and what I excpect to hear when I hear Tourniquet. A song like Proprioception has plenty of amazing riffs.

It has its misses too. Bats is a song I'm still not quite fond of but even that one has a couple of cool parts. Overall I just haven't been into the happier sounding Tourniquet songs ever, well that's true with pretty much every other band too. Minor chords and scales are my thing. And I don't think the title track is that good either.

I can tolerate a lot of mood and style changes as long as the melodies, chord progressions and riffs hit the right spot, and C2C has plenty of stuff that do exactly that. The album certainly is the odd one out.

EDIT:
My least favorite Tourniquet album is Onward to Freedom (yes, I count it as a Tourniquet album).
While it has some good tunes too I think overall C2C goes way above that album in being interesting and has way more distinct Tourniquet riffs and melodies going on and while Nick Villars sounded really good on Onward to Freedom I'm still not a fan of most of the metalcore vocals in the album.

What's interesting is that if I had to make a Best of Tourniquet album, I could easily pick one song from every single album they've made. Even Onward to Freedom would get the title track in as I still think the chorus is one of the catchiest choruses Ted has ever made. And I wouldn't even have to force myself to pick one from each because every album has at least one song I would hate to leave out of the collection.