Christianity Under Attack [again] in the US Government

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/two-u.s.-senators-apply-an-anti-christian-religious-test-for-government-officials#When:2017-06-08T05:10:00+00:00

In a confirmation hearing of an executive branch nominee, two U.S. senators imply that those who believe Jesus is the only way to salvation are “Islamophobic” and not fit for public office.

Yikes.  It'd seem that Bernie Sanders and friends are really pushing to have orthodox Christians ousted from public office for their beliefs.  As [American] Christians, we're going to be in for one heck of a ride in the near future.

I can't wait to leave this country. We are beyond fixing.

I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world."
John 16:33 ESV

metaldude wrote:I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world."
John 16:33 ESV

True, but I will choose the path of least tribulation for my family. I'm not going to actively seek it out. Since our country openly tolerates and supports child murder, adultery, pre-marital sex and homosexuality and all manner of sexual perversion, pornography, theft by over taxation, terrorists, euthanasia, kidnapping, overly strict laws against families and businesses, I'm moving elsewhere. I realize that no country is perfect, but some have far less wickedness than here.

Kerrick wrote:

In a confirmation hearing of an executive branch nominee, two U.S. senators imply that those who believe Jesus is the only way to salvation are “Islamophobic” and not fit for public office.

Using the same logic you couldn't be Muslim and hold any public office either.  Or any other faith that isn't inclusive of other faiths.

New Creation wrote:I can't wait to leave this country. We are beyond fixing.

And go where? From where I'm living, US still is some light version of paradise.

Andreas89 wrote:

New Creation wrote:I can't wait to leave this country. We are beyond fixing.

And go where? From where I'm living, US still is some light version of paradise.

We're moving to the Dominican Republic soon. Surgical abortion is against the law, homosexuality is publicly frowned on, there is no Muslim community, homeschoolers have actual educational freedom, Christians aren't discriminated against, etc.

Fascinating. Hope it all goes well of course.

I completely understand why you'll be doing that by the way. The last couple of months I have been keeping an eye on the USA because of the moral climate here, but the USA isn't what it used to be. I think it was last week that an American entrepeneur (a roman catholic) refused to have a lesbian "wedding" at his premises, and now the local government makes trade impossible for him.

Anyway, in the meantime I'll see what my wife and I must do. We're not ready in Germany yet.

Andreas89 wrote:Fascinating. Hope it all goes well of course.

I completely understand why you'll be doing that by the way. The last couple of months I have been keeping an eye on the USA because of the moral climate here, but the USA isn't what it used to be. I think it was last week that an American entrepeneur (a roman catholic) refused to have a lesbian "wedding" at his premises, and now the local government makes trade impossible for him.

Anyway, in the meantime I'll see what my wife and I must do. We're not ready in Germany yet.

Come to the DR with us. When I get there, I'll find some land for you.

I would beg to differ.  Instead of leaving the country, you should stay, pray, and work to be agents of change for the good here.  Leaving is easy.  It is also just a matter of time before other countries that aren't as bad as we are will follow.  Sin runs rampant everywhere.  Period.

I have mucho respect for Sean Feucht. Dude is not only a musician, but does missions work in some of the most dangerous parts of the world.

Like Iraq and other countries in the Middle East.

New Creation wrote:Come to the DR with us. When I get there, I'll find some land for you.

I don't see the necessity come up (yet?), but it's nice to know that there's options.

alldatndensum wrote:I would beg to differ.  Instead of leaving the country, you should stay, pray, and work to be agents of change for the good here.  Leaving is easy.  It is also just a matter of time before other countries that aren't as bad as we are will follow.  Sin runs rampant everywhere.  Period.

It is this rhetoric that I honestly find a bit narrow minded, at least it comes across that way. It always seems as if this argument implies that leaving your country for a safer environment is frowned upon, if not sinful. Don't get me wrong, I don't accuse you of doing so, but it's the feeling I have with this argument.

My wife and I want to have children. But what if Ontario's Bill 89 (look it up on google) will catch on in other countries (so far only in Ontario, Canada)? There's a fairly popular political party in the Netherlands that loves that kind of thing. And I don't think other parties will refrain from such thinking.

I'm not gonna live in a country where I can lose my children for not raising them LGBTqwerty-friendly (whatever that means).

alldatndensum wrote:I would beg to differ.  Instead of leaving the country, you should stay, pray, and work to be agents of change for the good here.  Leaving is easy.  It is also just a matter of time before other countries that aren't as bad as we are will follow.  Sin runs rampant everywhere.  Period.

I've had CPS in my house on false claims and have endured the threat of a wicked government taking my children away. I will not endure that again. My friend had CPS in his house the other day on similar false claims. Why would I want to stay in a place where my children are in harm's way?

alldatndensum wrote:I would beg to differ.  Instead of leaving the country, you should stay, pray, and work to be agents of change for the good here.  Leaving is easy.  It is also just a matter of time before other countries that aren't as bad as we are will follow.  Sin runs rampant everywhere.  Period.

In addition to my other reply, I have stayed and prayed and worked to be an agent of change. I will not share my full list of activism here, but know that the things I have done for God and for this country most Christians wouldn't dare think of even once in their life.

This country does not want to change. This country has hardened her heart towards God and His people.

What surprised me most about this exchange was the ignorance of a supposedly intelligent man about what Christianity has believed for two thousand years, and his view that holding to this teaching somehow disqualified you from servicing those who don't hold your own beliefs. 

He clearly believes that Christianity is wrong but had no problem running for the office of President of the United States which is predominately made up of people who would label themselves Christian. He is rather the hypocrite.

New Creation wrote:

alldatndensum wrote:I would beg to differ.  Instead of leaving the country, you should stay, pray, and work to be agents of change for the good here.  Leaving is easy.  It is also just a matter of time before other countries that aren't as bad as we are will follow.  Sin runs rampant everywhere.  Period.

In addition to my other reply, I have stayed and prayed and worked to be an agent of change. I will not share my full list of activism here, but know that the things I have done for God and for this country most Christians wouldn't dare think of even once in their life.

This country does not want to change. This country has hardened her heart towards God and His people.

The problem I see is that you have decided that this country CANNOT change.  However, Jesus never came to change a nation as a whole--He came to change one heart at a time.  With thinking like yours, it seems that you have given up on even reaching one and that none of us in this nation are worth giving your life for. 

We are in a war here, folks.  The war is for souls.  I've been painfully reminded of that this week serving on the streets of Memphis doing a Bible club for kids knocking on doors of crack houses, whore houses, and teaching kids about Jesus while there were gunshots less than a block away that the police never responded to.  Were those kids worth having real compassion on and loving them in spite of the evil going on around them?  YES!  But, what if everyone turns a blind eye to that situation and said they were not?

It is easy to walk away.  It is harder to stay and ask the Lord to send you TO the harvest.  If you decide to move, don't be surprised if you find yourself in the proverbial belly of a whale.

You can get angry with me if you like, but I feel that someone has to say this.  I wish you the best, but I definitely must disagree.

alldatndensum wrote:

New Creation wrote:

alldatndensum wrote:I would beg to differ.  Instead of leaving the country, you should stay, pray, and work to be agents of change for the good here.  Leaving is easy.  It is also just a matter of time before other countries that aren't as bad as we are will follow.  Sin runs rampant everywhere.  Period.

In addition to my other reply, I have stayed and prayed and worked to be an agent of change. I will not share my full list of activism here, but know that the things I have done for God and for this country most Christians wouldn't dare think of even once in their life.

This country does not want to change. This country has hardened her heart towards God and His people.

The problem I see is that you have decided that this country CANNOT change.  However, Jesus never came to change a nation as a whole--He came to change one heart at a time.  With thinking like yours, it seems that you have given up on even reaching one and that none of us in this nation are worth giving your life for. 

We are in a war here, folks.  The war is for souls.  I've been painfully reminded of that this week serving on the streets of Memphis doing a Bible club for kids knocking on doors of crack houses, whore houses, and teaching kids about Jesus while there were gunshots less than a block away that the police never responded to.  Were those kids worth having real compassion on and loving them in spite of the evil going on around them?  YES!  But, what if everyone turns a blind eye to that situation and said they were not?

It is easy to walk away.  It is harder to stay and ask the Lord to send you TO the harvest.  If you decide to move, don't be surprised if you find yourself in the proverbial belly of a whale.

You can get angry with me if you like, but I feel that someone has to say this.  I wish you the best, but I definitely must disagree.

My commission, my calling, is to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery (Ephesians 3:9). I will continue to do that no matter where I live. God did not call me to live in the United States of America nor is this His chosen people. I will go, take my family where it is safe, and flee the tyranny that is here. I'm sick and tired of looking over my shoulder, worried about the day the government will take my children. You keep on ministering to those kids in Memphis. I'll keep on ministering to the kids in the New Creation house. To use your own words, are my children "kids worth having real compassion on and loving them in spite of the evil going on around them?  YES!"

Kerrick wrote:https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/two-u.s.-senators-apply-an-anti-christian-religious-test-for-government-officials#When:2017-06-08T05:10:00+00:00

In a confirmation hearing of an executive branch nominee, two U.S. senators imply that those who believe Jesus is the only way to salvation are “Islamophobic” and not fit for public office.

Yikes.  It'd seem that Bernie Sanders and friends are really pushing to have orthodox Christians ousted from public office for their beliefs.  As [American] Christians, we're going to be in for one heck of a ride in the near future.

Regarding that quote, those senators are just slinging mud.  People get dirty and say things they don't think about if that means winning.  Look at the last presidential debate.

I don't see this as a serious jab towards all things aligned with the Christian faith.  I see it as 2 senators using that as leverage to get someone else in that will make their job easier.

alldatndensum wrote:I would beg to differ.  Instead of leaving the country, you should stay, pray, and work to be agents of change for the good here.  Leaving is easy.  It is also just a matter of time before other countries that aren't as bad as we are will follow.  Sin runs rampant everywhere.  Period.

Why stick around and help when you can run away to something easier?

Lets face it folks, if we're going to make the population believe what we believe a requirement to where we reside, why not put all our cards on the table?  Then we'd each need our own islands to be marooned on.  That'd put an all new spin on "One nation under God, indivisible".

ThomasEversole wrote:Regarding that quote, those senators are just slinging mud.  People get dirty and say things they don't think about if that means winning.  Look at the last presidential debate.

I don't see this as a serious jab towards all things aligned with the Christian faith.  I see it as 2 senators using that as leverage to get someone else in that will make their job easier.

But words and their meanings matter. Of course you can say later that you "didn't mean it like that", but as we say in the Netherlands, the spirit is already out of the lamp (or bottle) then.

ThomasEversole wrote:Why stick around and help when you can run away to something easier?

Lets face it folks, if we're going to make the population believe what we believe a requirement to where we reside, why not put all our cards on the table?  Then we'd each need our own islands to be marooned on.  That'd put an all new spin on "One nation under God, indivisible".

Nobody, I repeat, NOBODY here believes what you are implying here. Do you have the child protection service in your neck constantly, threatening to take away your children? That is not just "uneasy".
Come on, have some compassion with people facing different situations than you.

Andreas89 wrote:
But words and their meanings matter. Of course you can say later that you "didn't mean it like that", but as we say in the Netherlands, the spirit is already out of the lamp (or bottle) then.

Its not a Freudian slip. These are politicians, and its a bluff.

Andreas89 wrote:
Nobody, I repeat, NOBODY here believes what you are implying here. Do you have the child protection service in your neck constantly, threatening to take away your children? That is not just "uneasy".
Come on, have some compassion with people facing different situations than you.

Nobody should believe what I'm implying because I was being sarcastic, and everyone who reads your last 3 sentences will know you did not comprehend that.

Guys, I think that before this descends down into the morass of "getting personal", im' gonna go ahead and shut this one down.

Sorry......