Re: Star Wars church... the farce is strong with this one.

by Guest Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:06 pm

The guy in this video ... as well as many other people ... who take time and try to degrade and criticize other ministries are just flat out wrong.

Jesus is our example - and He never went about trying to 'disprove' any other doctrines of His time. He was too busy teaching them about the Kingdom of Heaven and The Father's love.

How foolish and evil to go about and wave the finger of judgment against other ministries. That is not at all how our Lord Jesus operates. He operates in pure Love.

Whenever I see someone going about slamming ministers (whether the minister is wrong or not theologically), I immediately mark that person as someone who I do not want to be associated with. Why? Because God is not pleased with such behavior. And neither should we be.

by crucifyd Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:17 pm

I agree the way he goes about his presentation is pretty comic-bookish (?), even ridiculous and off-putting, but the points he is making are valid.

RavenWolf wrote:Whenever I see someone going about slamming ministers (whether the minister is wrong or not theologically), I immediately mark that person as someone who I do not want to be associated with. Why? Because God is not pleased with such behavior. And neither should we be.

so if someones theology is wrong, they shouldn't be called out?

the bible certainly calls for it:
https://www.openbible.info/topics/exposing_false_teachers

as far as slamming someone, he is actually slamming their theology (which again, the bible calls for)...

Star Wars or whatever pop-culture-thing-of-the-moment does not apply to everyone, because not everyone is into any given pop-culture-thing-of-the-moment.

the thing that DOES apply to everyone is the Gospel and of course pastors are called to preach THE WORD...

God wrote:I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

^{2 Timonth 4:1-5 ESV}

Paul himself said he "knew nothing but Christ and Him crucified"

GOD wrote:And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

^{1 Corinthians 2:1-5 ESV}

by ThomasEversole Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:58 pm

Debunking false teachings is a given biblically...
...but taking themes and stories from movies and correlating it to a story or lesson from The Bible IS NOT A FALSE TEACHING.

I swear some Christians are a little too eager to be garbagemen...

by deathisgain Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:42 pm

Interestingly I was reading about John the Baptist in a devotional to the kids the other day. 4 things stuck out to me:

1. He wore camel hair - uncomfortable and considered lower class to wear
2. He was out in the desert preaching - a place no one would want to go to
3. He called every one to repent - definitely not a seeker friendly message
4. Jesus said that there was no one greater

by crucifyd Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:50 pm

ThomasEversole wrote:Debunking false teachings is a given biblically...

yes, but it is not a given in the majority of the church today. false teaching is commonly embraced via embracing false teachers, often because they call themselves Christian and you "shouldn't attack a brother"...

ThomasEversole wrote:...but taking themes and stories from movies and correlating it to a story or lesson from The Bible IS NOT A FALSE TEACHING.

in and of itself, agreed. however, most of the time when that "technique" is used, the accompanying biblical text is not properly exegeted.

by alldatndensum Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:06 pm

ThomasEversole wrote:Debunking false teachings is a given biblically...
...but taking themes and stories from movies and correlating it to a story or lesson from The Bible IS NOT A FALSE TEACHING.

I swear some Christians are a little too eager to be garbagemen...

It sells books and gets hits on YouTube, though!

by sentient 6 Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:16 pm

...hey David....if that disturbs you.....try this one...

by Grindboy Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:33 pm

deathisgain wrote:Interestingly I was reading about John the Baptist in a devotional to the kids the other day. 4 things stuck out to me:

1. He wore camel hair - uncomfortable and considered lower class to wear
2. He was out in the desert preaching - a place no one would want to go to
3. He called every one to repent - definitely not a seeker friendly message
4. Jesus said that there was no one greater

This is one example of a common misperception, that pastors or churches who are working to start out where people start out don't talk about hard issues or sin or ______. It's like saying that churches that sit in pews and sign hymns don't talk about grace. I'm sure there are a couple outlier examples that could be found, but the vast majority of the time it's simply incorrect. I don't know your own experience with or definition of "seeker friendly" so maybe you're only talking about like two particularly poor examples, but if you're insinuating that churches which might reference things like Star Wars don't or won't talk about sin or repentance, I would respectfully but strongly disagree.

by Guest Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:33 am

yes, but it is not a given in the majority of the church today. false teaching is commonly embraced via embracing false teachers, often because they call themselves Christian and you "shouldn't attack a brother"...

in and of itself, agreed. however, most of the time when that "technique" is used, the accompanying biblical text is not properly exegeted.

one mans truth is another mans lies and vice versa..go to any christian book store or step in to a handful of different denominational churches and you find that out in a hurry...each one says the others are heretics ...half the books on any christian bookshelf call the other half lies...when you say "biblical text is not properly exegeted" you mean according to your bible interpretation only... truthfully Jesus only told us to share the simple gospel and that was it..all interpretation and understanding and convincing others should come from the spirit ..not other men!! these different churchs like the star wars church are doing exactly what Jesus told us to do!! Smile

The guy in the video.. Rolling Eyes

by Guest Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:32 pm

When will Christians stop fighting against each other? Sad

Is it any wonder why Jesus hasn't returned yet? Perhaps we're too busy fighting against each other ... than getting ready for His return!

by ThomasEversole Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:36 pm

I'm sure Satan loves it that we fight with each other. ...and when churches train their Christians to look and scowl at other churches through their window blinds from across the street.

We all know false teachings are out there, but the father of lies is responsible for anyone who believes that false teachings "are common" or that "most churches" are completely unaware to false teachings. Really? Most churches? ....and we know this because...

?

How many churches are there in the US? Millions I'm sure. How many churches could one person (or even one financed organization) go to, to determine this? A couple thousand at most. How is that even accurate?

That's like saying there's 20 million raccoon's found in the US wilds because you counted raccoon's in Illinois and just multiplied it times the number of states the US has.

sentient 6 wrote:...hey David....if that disturbs you.....try this one...

The only thing disturbing about that video is the jerk that says they're "blaspheming" because they're "mimicking the world".
Anyone who thinks that skit is unbiblical is prejudice against culture. What youth group doesn't take a popular song and have comedic overtones to their plays?

by Guest Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:12 pm

Infighting among Christians and within the church has been there from the very beginning ..its in the scriptures that Jesus, Peter, James and Paul all had to put up with it...even some in the Jerusalem church fought with each other at times...it will be with us till the end of time... one should just believe what they think is right and ignore the rest Smile

by ThomasEversole Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:15 pm

I totally get smashing false teachings if someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. ...but NOT reading someone else's OPINION regarding their definition of scripture on a forum (or in person) and then smashing it to bits.

That's not being biblically against false teachings.
That's just being a Richard.

by Guest Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:20 am

ThomasEversole wrote:I totally get smashing false teachings if someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. ...but NOT reading someone else's OPINION regarding their definition of scripture on a forum (or in person) and then smashing it to bits.

That's not being biblically against false teachings.
That's just being a Richard.

by messiaen77 Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:07 am

Ok, I finally made myself watch the video and I have to say I have a number of problems with it. First, he is apparently taking a news article as his source for his criticisms rather than having witnessed it himself, which means he is using someone's construction of the pastor's words as his text. You know how it goes when you tell someone something and then they tell someone else it often comes out a little bit different than how you originally told it because that second person is adding their interpretation in there? So now the third person is reading their interpretation into how the second person interpreted what you said, which may bear no resemblance to what you actually said. In addition, he is selectively quoting that article, and if you aren't familiar with how that works, go check out av1611.org or jesus-is-savior.com. You pick out the parts that support the point you are trying to make. Don't give people a chance to read the whole thing for themselves, otherwise they might come to a different conclusion.

Second, he's misusing Scripture. The point behind Jesus driving the money changers out of the temple wasn't that they were making God's temple into something it wasn't intended to be, it was that they were stealing from people who were trying to honor God in worship. I hardly think an elaborate stage set and costumes rises to the same level.

Third, and this is the biggie for me, all of our actions as Christians are supposed to be done in love. We "speak the truth in love." I don't get a whole lot of love out of this 8 minutes. I get a lot of snark, a lot of sarcasm, a lot of arrogance, and a lot of condescension. But I get no love.

I guess that is my thought regarding exposing "false teaching"--what is your motive and what is your approach. I see (and have been) a lot of self-appointed heresy police out there just looking for people who don't do Christianity the way they think it should be so they can shout it from the rooftops that THOSE PEOPLE ARE WRONG!!!!!! I condemned my entire class to Hell in seventh grade because they weren't American Baptists (ABCUSA). Then I see people who hear about people who are following ideas that are not Biblical and are not in accordance with Jesus' teachings and they weep for those people and talk to them one-on-one and try to persuade them to see in Scripture what is actually taught so that they can get on the right path. The latter is how I think we are called to expose the fruitless deeds of darkness, not creating podcasts and video channels dedicated to mocking people into repentance.

by Guest Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:09 pm

messiaen77 wrote:Ok, I finally made myself watch the video and I have to say I have a number of problems with it. First, he is apparently taking a news article as his source for his criticisms rather than having witnessed it himself, which means he is using someone's construction of the pastor's words as his text. You know how it goes when you tell someone something and then they tell someone else it often comes out a little bit different than how you originally told it because that second person is adding their interpretation in there? So now the third person is reading their interpretation into how the second person interpreted what you said, which may bear no resemblance to what you actually said. In addition, he is selectively quoting that article, and if you aren't familiar with how that works, go check out av1611.org or jesus-is-savior.com. You pick out the parts that support the point you are trying to make. Don't give people a chance to read the whole thing for themselves, otherwise they might come to a different conclusion.

Second, he's misusing Scripture. The point behind Jesus driving the money changers out of the temple wasn't that they were making God's temple into something it wasn't intended to be, it was that they were stealing from people who were trying to honor God in worship. I hardly think an elaborate stage set and costumes rises to the same level.

Third, and this is the biggie for me, all of our actions as Christians are supposed to be done in love. We "speak the truth in love." I don't get a whole lot of love out of this 8 minutes. I get a lot of snark, a lot of sarcasm, a lot of arrogance, and a lot of condescension. But I get no love.

I guess that is my thought regarding exposing "false teaching"--what is your motive and what is your approach. I see (and have been) a lot of self-appointed heresy police out there just looking for people who don't do Christianity the way they think it should be so they can shout it from the rooftops that THOSE PEOPLE ARE WRONG!!!!!! I condemned my entire class to Hell in seventh grade because they weren't American Baptists (ABCUSA). Then I see people who hear about people who are following ideas that are not Biblical and are not in accordance with Jesus' teachings and they weep for those people and talk to them one-on-one and try to persuade them to see in Scripture what is actually taught so that they can get on the right path. The latter is how I think we are called to expose the fruitless deeds of darkness, not creating podcasts and video channels dedicated to mocking people into repentance.

Love what you said here bro! Very Happy

by sentient 6 Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:48 am

ThomasEversole wrote:The only thing disturbing about that video is the jerk that says they're "blaspheming" because they're "mimicking the world".
Anyone who thinks that skit is unbiblical is prejudice against culture. What youth group doesn't take a popular song and have comedic overtones to their plays?

I really wonder what some here would view as " off limits " or in bad taste for the Church to be involved in. I really do.

I personally don't care for a lot of stuff that makes up popular culture in the secular world. So I probably won't care for it when the Church tries to adopt it either.

by WildWorld Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:40 am

I guess i just see this as the same as when priests start off their homilies with a joke to start up what they're going to discuss. I dont know much about these programs, and didnt watch the video, but i'm sure that they eventually move farther and farther away from Star Wars and get more and more about the Gospel.

by messiaen77 Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:44 pm

sentient 6 wrote:
ThomasEversole wrote:The only thing disturbing about that video is the jerk that says they're "blaspheming" because they're "mimicking the world".
Anyone who thinks that skit is unbiblical is prejudice against culture. What youth group doesn't take a popular song and have comedic overtones to their plays?

I really wonder what some here would view as " off limits " or in bad taste for the Church to be involved in. I really do.

I personally don't care for a lot of stuff that makes up popular culture in the secular world. So I probably won't care for it when the Church tries to adopt it either.

Personally, I thought the idea of Jesus coming down off the cross and doing the Harlem Shake is in bad taste, but...I don't think it rises to the level of blasphemy. Plus, once again, he's excerpting this from a larger whole and maybe it wouldn't seem as outrageous in context. I don't know. He doesn't let us know. Honestly, the more I see from this guy, the more he reminds me of those anti-rock evangelists I grew up with who selectively pull and interpret information to fit their agenda.

WildWorld wrote:I guess i just see this as the same as when priests start off their homilies with a joke to start up what they're going to discuss. I dont know much about these programs, and didnt watch the video, but i'm sure that they eventually move farther and farther away from Star Wars and get more and more about the Gospel.

See, that's the thing: there is no way of knowing. He's pulling excerpts from some unknown story about a church that is doing something like this. I have been looking for the original source, but the only thing I can find is the Berlin Zion Church in Germany doing a service based around Star Wars the Sunday before the film opened and certainly nothing like what this guy was describing. Now I did find information on the Temple of the Jedi Order, Jedi Church, and Church of Jediism.

by ThomasEversole Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:08 pm

sentient 6 wrote:
I really wonder what some here would view as " off limits " or in bad taste for the Church to be involved in. I really do.

I personally don't care for a lot of stuff that makes up popular culture in the secular world. So I probably won't care for it when the Church tries to adopt it either.

I don't care for stuff that makes up popular culture either. If the video wouldn't have had "Harlem Shake" in it, I wouldn't have known that's what that song was.

There's a huge difference between bad taste and "wrong" - and while it wouldn't have been how I presented a youth group skit, I'm not going to call blasphemy or say this is off limits. ...because its not.

messiaen77 wrote:
Personally, I thought the idea of Jesus coming down off the cross and doing the Harlem Shake is in bad taste, but...I don't think it rises to the level of blasphemy. Plus, once again, he's excerpting this from a larger whole and maybe it wouldn't seem as outrageous in context. I don't know. He doesn't let us know. Honestly, the more I see from this guy, the more he reminds me of those anti-rock evangelists I grew up with who selectively pull and interpret information to fit their agenda.

I think any secular song/movie/show "parody" in church is in bad taste. I heard at a church once them singing "Sweet Home Up in Heaven", just different words to the Sweet Home Alabama song. Why not be original and come up with something that sounds even BETTER?

by Guest Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:18 pm

LOL ROFL SWEET HOME UP IN HEAVEN!!! LOL!

That actually made me laugh dude. Oh my. Funny stuff.

Rolf 1

by Grindboy Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:47 pm

I saw/heard a church on a float in a parade once doing Sweet Home up in Heaven. The song definitely made me want to be anywhere else, I'll say that.

I'm not "against" much. I think a lot of things can be done wrong or poorly or not thought through, but there's not much that I'm going to say is categorically wrong or unrighteous.

by Guest Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:50 pm

Yeah. Same here. I don't spend my time being 'against' anything. That is good way to generate negative energy in one's life.

I'd rather be positive and FOR somebody! Smile

FOR Jesus! And FOR my brothers and sisters in Christ! (regardless of denominational persuasion). I'm not a Fundamentalist, but I'm not against the Fundamentalists. I'm not a Mormon - but I'm not against the Mormons. I'm not a Catholic, but I'm not against them. I'm a follower of Christ. Period. Are you against that? Then I'm against you! Smile

by alldatndensum Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:52 pm

I think any secular song/movie/show "parody" in church is in bad taste. I heard at a church once them singing "Sweet Home Up in Heaven", just different words to the Sweet Home Alabama song. Why not be original and come up with something that sounds even BETTER?

I actually like parodies if they are well done. I guess it would be safe to say that you do not care for Apologetix.

by ThomasEversole Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:38 pm

Meh. If the parodies are funny, yes... but not just different words to an existing song, then normally, no.

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