Re: Cannabis

by ThomasEversole Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:04 am

That 0 deaths image is witty, but not accurate. No one has died from DIRECT marijuana use, just like no one has died from DIRECT tobacco use, but people have used it for years and then their heart explodes.

by d@v!d Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:05 am

ThomasEversole wrote:...legal or illegal, if it doesn't have THC, there's no intoxication.
The CBD oil I'm using is about as intoxicating as an aspirin.

Regarding short term memory, the years I worked as a drug and alcohol counselor all the research said, cannabis only "blocks" short term memory - it doesn't destroy it. Leave weed alone, you'll get it back.

Oh, and there is one dangerous side to marijuana that a lot of people don't think of.
Heart attack and stroke.

THC increases heart rates considerably. If someone's overweight (which a lot of people gain weight smoking marijuana) they're increasing their chance of heart disease or stroke.

Then again, someone not smoking pot but pounding triple chocolate cakes every day is increasing their chance of heart disease or stroke. ...so, take that for what its worth.
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I'm about to have 5 weeks of full throttle radiation and chemo that will build up to a maximum dose. I'm not planning on being horribly sick, having no appetite, being in pain and having trouble functioning - but I think I'd much rather buy a bag to treat all of that than take 9 different meds (with their side effects and being doped up anyway) from some pill pushing doctor.

Yeah, I get all that. I think Exo answered you well earlier as to not muddling things. And I think you know as much too. I really hope things work out well for you and if this truly helps, praise God for His providence.

by ThomasEversole Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:13 am

d@v!d wrote:
Of course your dichotomy is the standard understanding, but from experience I've never come across anyone who uses/advocates it that impressed me with their mental acumen, to say the least.

Granted, I know my sample is small, as it only relates to people I've known and interacted with over the years. But I stated it that way to say that I do wonder...

In the treatment field, marijuana is called "the dreamkiller".
A lot of people who use it, are just complacent getting stoned every day and then doing nothing with their life because pot is life.

I guess if someone makes that decision when they're 13, they'll be as impressive intellectually as... well... a 13 year old.

There's a lot of people not like that though. Sure, talking to someone under the influence is going to be obviously impaired whether its weed, alcohol, pills, etc. ...but there are people who are extremely driven and intelligent who regularly use the herb.

For the record, I got A's and B's my last year in college while smoking every day.
(obviously, not before class)

by exo Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:29 am

The RavenWolf wrote:
exo wrote:"Makes one stupid" in the same manner alcohol or other intoxicants do, not literally causes your IQ to be permanently reduced. It's not exactly up for debate that it is KNOWN to impare judgement while the intoxicating effect of the THC is in place.

Well you see - a lot of people abuse this plant. For them - yes. Getting 'stoned out of your mind' will make you temporarily stupid. Much like alcohol.

But as a medical patient ... I never abused it like this. Even now, when I use it recreationally, I never get 'stoned out of my mind'. I treat it just as I do alcohol. I like a nice glass of wine once in a while. But I don't slam the whole bottle!!! That would be stupid. I hate getting drunk. I also hate getting stoned (though stoned is safer). But when I smoke recreationally - I only take a very small and moderate amount (like one or two hits tops). This does not cause stupidity at all. In fact, it enhances your senses. Makes you smarter. You do everything more 'enhanced' when you do it in moderation.

But you guys are speaking of the abuse of marijuana. So yes ... if you abuse it - it will make you stupid (temporarily).

Don't make the mistake of conflating your personal experience with universal hard fact of "how this stuff works". That's YOUR body and brain chemistry's reaction to it, another person will get different mileage out of the same vehicle, so to speak...it doesn't even have to be honest abuse, just not knowing or missing your limits. I know PLENTY of users that consider themselves "moderate" users that I have seen just do/say something just ridiculously "stupid" while under the spell of the ganj......no need to get worked up and defensive over it, it's just the simple fact that different folks can react differently to similar dosages of almost ANY chemical.....

by exo Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:33 am

ThomasEversole wrote:...legal or illegal, if it doesn't have THC, there's no intoxication.
The CBD oil I'm using is about as intoxicating as an aspirin.

Regarding short term memory, the years I worked as a drug and alcohol counselor all the research said, cannabis only "blocks" short term memory - it doesn't destroy it. Leave weed alone, you'll get it back.

Oh, and there is one dangerous side to marijuana that a lot of people don't think of.
Heart attack and stroke.

THC increases heart rates considerably. If someone's overweight (which a lot of people gain weight smoking marijuana) they're increasing their chance of heart disease or stroke.

Then again, someone not smoking pot but pounding triple chocolate cakes every day is increasing their chance of heart disease or stroke. ...so, take that for what its worth.
____________________________

I'm about to have 5 weeks of full throttle radiation and chemo that will build up to a maximum dose. I'm not planning on being horribly sick, having no appetite, being in pain and having trouble functioning - but I think I'd much rather buy a bag to treat all of that than take 9 different meds (with their side effects and being doped up anyway) from some pill pushing doctor.

Oh, I'm quite clear on the CBD oil, no worries Very Happy

As for procuring some of the real thing, I will not advocate it due to the laws in Illinois and Indiana prohibiting usage and possession........but dude, your situation can be very life threatening, so do what you gotta do to deal with it, and the problem aspects of treatment. You will not hear one cross word from me about it.....

by Guest Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:57 am

srguenther wrote:Helped, yes. Cured or healed (i.e., permanent), no.

Same can be said for prescription medicine just saying, I take meds for depression and diabetes they dont cure it, they help it, help control it.

Personally I dont use the stuff I dont like the smell of it

by d@v!d Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:19 am

exo wrote:Don't make the mistake of conflating your personal experience with universal hard fact of "how this stuff works". That's YOUR body and brain chemistry's reaction to it, another person will get different mileage out of the same vehicle, so to speak...it doesn't even have to be honest abuse, just not knowing or missing your limits. I know PLENTY of users that consider themselves "moderate" users that I have seen just do/say something just ridiculously "stupid" while under the spell of the ganj......no need to get worked up and defensive over it, it's just the simple fact that different folks can react differently to similar dosages of almost ANY chemical.....

Funny that you mention this point. I used it a few times when I was young and didn't much care for it. Once under the influence I got into a fist fight that I provoked and another time I started beating up a friend. It did everything but 'mellow' me out... Wink

by d@v!d Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:21 am

ThomasEversole wrote:In the treatment field, marijuana is called "the dreamkiller".
A lot of people who use it, are just complacent getting stoned every day and then doing nothing with their life because pot is life.

Yeah, that point just killed me back in 08 when we here in California were in a major debt and we decided to put its legality on the ballot. I'm thinking that we have enough unemployment as it is...

by alldatndensum Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:46 am

For true medicinal purposes, I am all for it. As for recreational use I don't agree with it at all. I have met too many people who couldn't stop and then got hooked on whatever their pusher started lacing their stuff with. It can become a gateway quickly.

I don't agree with people getting drunk either. I don't think that God intended for these substances to be abused for amusement or escapism.

by Guest Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:57 pm

I look at it like alcohol (outside of the parameters of medical use).

I know a lot of Christians who drink wine or beer in moderation and never get drunk.

The same is true of marijuana. If you take just a hit or two ... it's much like having 'one or two' beers. Same effects.

Like I said before - I do use marijuana recreationally ... but it's nothing more than having a glass of wine or two. Or a beer or two with a buddy.

God created all plants for us to enjoy. The devil cannot create. It's so funny when you study the past and study the history of marijuana. They actually brainwashed the local church of the day ... by telling them that this was 'the devil's' plant. As if the devil can create!!! He's a destroyer, not a creator!!!

by Guest Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:26 pm

by d@v!d Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:31 pm

RavenWolf wrote:

by exo Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:04 pm

Let's be VERY careful not to let this go the route of our "old" theology threads......meme warfare and grousing at each other isn't needed here. Might be better for some folks to "agree to disagree" rather than continue the back and forth. If you got nothing new to add, maybe it's time to let go and move on Thumbs up

by KaramKaram Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:11 pm

you beat me to it exo, I was reading thw whole thread and was about to make the observation and boom I read your post

by Guest Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:23 pm

Let's be VERY careful not to let this go the route of our "old" theology threads......meme warfare and grousing at each other isn't needed here. Might be better for some folks to "agree to disagree" rather than continue the back and forth. If you got nothing new to add, maybe it's time to let go and move on

cool..I agree to disagree with everyone who disagrees with me.. Smile

moving on now...

by Guest Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:37 pm

Yep. Time to agree to disagree. Smile

So I'll leave this thread on a positive and light-hearted note:

Cannabis - Page 2 45babdb3c07e6695a7dff2f0f6c784ea

by ThomasEversole Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:48 pm

Any of you guys ever watch the movie Reefer Madness?
Its a black and white film about a white man who smokes marijuana and then starts choking people and has to be locked up for the rest of his life in an institution for the criminally insane.

It was totally meant to be prohibition era propaganda, but today its a comedy.
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Also, strangely on a similar topic, I had a bit of a revelation today. I'd been avoiding using cannabis (the real stuff) because in the sober/recovery world, using it is synonymous with substance abuse...

...but I got to thinking about people who abuse pills. (opiates or pain killers) If they HAVE to have surgery or some other procedure, they'll be encouraged to take that medication to manage pain. They'll pretty much have to or be in excruciating pain if the procedure is invasive.

I think someone having a different motive could use the substance formerly abused in a responsible manner. Myself, when I smoked weed in the past, it was to get intentionally BLAZED and as high as I could.... but if my motive/outlook for taking it now is one of taking medicine, I think I could do it if my heart was in the right place.

The CBD I've been using helps, but what I'm reading more of online says that THC is better for cancer.

I'm not to that point yet, and only using it if I needed it only helps keep my motives in check, but I'm certain I will need SOMETHING when radiation/chemo starts. My wife wants me to take a pill for nausea, take another pill to give me an appetite, take a pill for cramping, take another pill for pain, oh the appetite pill interferes with your sleep so you take another pill to sleep....

I'd much rather take a toke or two instead of something potent but natural instead of these lab chemicals and all its cost and side effects.
____________________

I didn't know where to start because I haven't bought a bag in 10 years, but a friend from work who's very sympathetic to my situation, is going to help me out through her connections...

by Guest Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:04 pm

Go for it Thomas! It's been created for you!

This whole 'reefer madness' propaganda is what made this plant illegal to begin with. I've studied the history of marijuana ... and it's sad how easily the American (and soon after, the world) swallowed the propaganda and lies that those in 'well-connected places' provided for their best interests.

Should never have been illegal to begin with.

But anyway - I assure you that you'll find that this medicine that God created helps much better than man-made pills of chemi-kills.

by Deepfriar Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:54 am

Shouldn't be illegal. I hope I see the day when it is legal federally.

by Guest Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:13 am

Deepfriar wrote:Shouldn't be illegal. I hope I see the day when it is legal federally.

I am sure you will! Just in the past 20 years - we have seen such amazing progress in regards to this. It takes time sometimes for goverments to catch up to the desires of the people.

As it stands right now ... if we voted today ... the majority of the people in the USA would have it legalized! I think it was 60% at the last poll I saw. So it won't be long!

by Guest Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:18 am

Savage Amusement wrote:
Very broad question here - How do you guys feel about cannabis?

I'm in favor for the full legalization in all 50 states for medical and recreational use...as well as the immediate release of all NON-violent offenders..A guy shouldn't go to prison over a few joints or and a bag for recreational use ...
I do think however that K2 should be illegal... And for the record I do not consider the use of cannabis a sinful thing..I applaud President Obama for not prosecuting in states like Colorado where its legal...

Totally love what you said Savage! I agree 110%!! Good post!

by ThomasEversole Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:32 pm

RavenWolf wrote:Go for it Thomas! It's been created for you!

I had some pretty rough symptoms today.
You know, I had two little puffs and not only am I not impaired, I feel like it knocked out most of the urgency and fatigue I've been having. I haven't talked to my mom while cleaning around the house this late at night in months.

I feel better than I have in a long time actually. I'm certainly not going to try to make a daily habit of it, but it's good to have for days when my symptoms are more intense and the CBD isn't cutting it.

by Guest Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:45 pm

ThomasEversole wrote:
RavenWolf wrote:Go for it Thomas! It's been created for you!

I had some pretty rough symptoms today.
You know, I had two little puffs and not only am I not impaired, I feel like it knocked out most of the urgency and fatigue I've been having. I haven't talked to my mom while cleaning around the house this late at night in months.

I feel better than I have in a long time actually. I'm certainly not going to try to make a daily habit of it, but it's good to have for days when my symptoms are more intense and the CBD isn't cutting it.

That's AWESOME dude!!! That is what it's there for!!!

It's certainly been abused over the years. Potheads give it a really bad name.

But when you look at it Scripturally and logically ... it just makes sense. We've been wrong on this issue as Christians. Even Pat Robertson of the 700 Club said as much.

Anyway - glad you are feeling a bit better ... due to a great plant that God made!

I certainly don't like to use it every day ... but back when I needed it as a medical patient ... I did take it every day. I had to. It really helped me.

Also, Chuck Billy from Testament had cancer a while back and almost died. He accredits medical marijuana for saving his life too!

by ThomasEversole Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:50 pm

I'd like to point out something biblical - it may not seem like its much sense at first but bear with me here...

Spoiler:

In the spoiler brackets is the ingredients for holy anointing oil. Pretty cool, eh?

I wanted to mention one thing. The original Hebrew states that its not "sweet calamus" (sorry, I didn't paste the (a) footnote details) - its in fact Kaneh-Bosem. (also called Kneh-Bosm, Qaneh-Bosm, different spellings for the same thing.)

Kaneh-Bosem is a substance identified by respected etymologists, linguists, anthropologists, botanists and other researchers as cannabis.

Over 6 pounds of it specifically, and all the ingredients were extracted to make a gallon and a half of "holy anointed oil".

The skin is the largest organ in the body and can absorb many different chemicals. When you take into consideration that those anointed were not just given a few drops, but literally drenched in this mixture, I can comfortably say that it was scientifically impossible for someone to be drenched in it to not be "blitzed" out of their mind.

Puts a new spin on Christ being "the annointed one", eh?
________________________

While I'm not interested in the high or euphoria of pot, and I don't think it will make my cancer go away, but it has already shown me with prayer and responsibility that it can make unbearable pain and fatigue, bearable.

by Guest Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:16 pm

Yes, pot was a very real part of the economy back in ancient times. To think of making it illegal would have seemed like blasphemy to those of that time. They would wonder why we have done such a stupid thing.

All ropes of ancient time came from cannabis. It was traded regularly in Israel and other parts of the known world.

Knowing that it was prevalent ... it's interesting also to note that nowhere in Scripture is the cannabis plant condemned by God or any prophet. It's very believable to me that even Jesus and his disciples partook (though I have no evidence for this). Just my own opinion. After all, Jesus drank wine - and that is more dangerous than cannabis.

Thomas, that is a very keen observation. I never realized it was right there in Scripture this whole time. Thanks for pointing that out to all of us.

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