Symbolism in Christian music.

I have been in this ongoing debate for a while with a neighbor that's starting to get out of hand to the point I've had to cut ties with him and wife simply because I disagree with him and her on what is satanic and what isn't. They are very conservative Baptists and they have been trying to prove to me christian metal is of the devil through symbolism on album covers. The first thing they used as evidence is Stryper and ther triangle that it's a symbol of the illuminati and they left no room for discussion and it was there truth and nothing else I was stumped with them it was really out of no where and off putting,, how do you answer this kind of certainty how in the world do you talk to people who have already made up there minds and why does Michael Sweet block people when a question like that is asked which I actually went to his messenger and quietly asked him if he could explain and help me answer my neighbors questions and he quietly blocked me no explanationno nothing?! What a way to treat fans who pay your bills the other examples they used was Theocracy and there Mosaic cd supposedly you can make out 666 in the Mosaic art work. I'm just tired of this the satanic panic of the 80s is still alive and well apparently. Any thoughts on how to deal with the Real still alive extremist ideology lol I guess that's appropriate if you saw there reactions to my rebuttal

Opeth3232 wrote:I have been in this ongoing debate for a while with a neighbor that's starting to get out of hand to the point I've had to cut ties with him and wife simply because I disagree with him and her on what is satanic and what isn't. They are very conservative Baptists and they have been trying to prove to me christian metal is of the devil through symbolism on album covers. The first thing they used as evidence is Stryper and ther triangle that it's a symbol of the illuminati and they left no room for discussion and it was there truth and nothing else I was stumped with them it was really out of no where and off putting,, how do you answer this kind of certainty how in the world do you talk to people who have already made up there minds and why does Michael Sweet block people when a question like that is asked which I actually went to his messenger and quietly asked him if he could explain and help me answer my neighbors questions and he quietly blocked me no explanationno nothing?! What a way to treat fans who pay your bills the other examples they used was Theocracy and there Mosaic cd supposedly you can make out 666 in the Mosaic art work. I'm just tired of this the satanic panic of the 80s is still alive and well apparently. Any thoughts on how to deal with the Real still alive extremist ideology lol I guess that's appropriate if you saw there reactions to my rebuttal

They are not going to be won over with words or crafty arguments. I would ignore them, live my life the best way I can honor God, and let them deal with themselves. People want to find the devil in everything. One of the hardest reasons to get people like that to change, is they believe that everything they think is true, is what God thinks is true. Because they believe in the truth of God and his word, so therefor everything else they think is the same.

^^ what he said.

I honestly don’t think it’s worth arguing about. His opinion may be wrong, but it’s not worth division between believers to argue about it imo. And if his conscience is bothered by listening to metal, for whatever reason, then it may be best to just not listen to it or talk about it around him, based on Paul’s guidelines about not causing weaker brothers to stumble.
That’s not the first time I’ve heard the thing about the Mosaic cover looking like 666 though lol. If someone really wants to think something is evil, they can come up with a way to convince themselves of it

deathisgain wrote:

Opeth3232 wrote:I have been in this ongoing debate for a while with a neighbor that's starting to get out of hand to the point I've had to cut ties with him and wife simply because I disagree with him and her on what is satanic and what isn't. They are very conservative Baptists and they have been trying to prove to me christian metal is of the devil through symbolism on album covers. The first thing they used as evidence is Stryper and ther triangle that it's a symbol of the illuminati and they left no room for discussion and it was there truth and nothing else I was stumped with them it was really out of no where and off putting,, how do you answer this kind of certainty how in the world do you talk to people who have already made up there minds and why does Michael Sweet block people when a question like that is asked which I actually went to his messenger and quietly asked him if he could explain and help me answer my neighbors questions and he quietly blocked me no explanationno nothing?! What a way to treat fans who pay your bills the other examples they used was Theocracy and there Mosaic cd supposedly you can make out 666 in the Mosaic art work. I'm just tired of this the satanic panic of the 80s is still alive and well apparently. Any thoughts on how to deal with the Real still alive extremist ideology lol I guess that's appropriate if you saw there reactions to my rebuttal

They are not going to be won over with words or crafty arguments. I would ignore them, live my life the best way I can honor God, and let them deal with themselves. People want to find the devil in everything. One of the hardest reasons to get people like that to change, is they believe that everything they think is true, is what God thinks is true. Because they believe in the truth of God and his word, so therefor everything else they think is the same.

That's what bothers me is they are So Sure they are right and that kind of certainty is scary. I didn't get saved in a church I got saved on a dirty floor listening to What's Following The Grave By Bloodgood. I just went to my knees and begged for God's mercy when I heard that song and when people like them say what they are saying it scares me that because I didn't get saved under brother or sister such and such does that mean my conversion is exempt? I love my Lord I just want peace when I die

Opeth3232 wrote:

deathisgain wrote:

Opeth3232 wrote:I have been in this ongoing debate for a while with a neighbor that's starting to get out of hand to the point I've had to cut ties with him and wife simply because I disagree with him and her on what is satanic and what isn't. They are very conservative Baptists and they have been trying to prove to me christian metal is of the devil through symbolism on album covers. The first thing they used as evidence is Stryper and ther triangle that it's a symbol of the illuminati and they left no room for discussion and it was there truth and nothing else I was stumped with them it was really out of no where and off putting,, how do you answer this kind of certainty how in the world do you talk to people who have already made up there minds and why does Michael Sweet block people when a question like that is asked which I actually went to his messenger and quietly asked him if he could explain and help me answer my neighbors questions and he quietly blocked me no explanationno nothing?! What a way to treat fans who pay your bills the other examples they used was Theocracy and there Mosaic cd supposedly you can make out 666 in the Mosaic art work. I'm just tired of this the satanic panic of the 80s is still alive and well apparently. Any thoughts on how to deal with the Real still alive extremist ideology lol I guess that's appropriate if you saw there reactions to my rebuttal

They are not going to be won over with words or crafty arguments. I would ignore them, live my life the best way I can honor God, and let them deal with themselves. People want to find the devil in everything. One of the hardest reasons to get people like that to change, is they believe that everything they think is true, is what God thinks is true. Because they believe in the truth of God and his word, so therefor everything else they think is the same.

That's what bothers me is they are So Sure they are right and that kind of certainty is scary. I didn't get saved in a church I got saved on a dirty floor listening to What's Following The Grave By Bloodgood. I just went to my knees and begged for God's mercy when I heard that song and when people like them say what they are saying it scares me that because I didn't get saved under brother or sister such and such does that mean my conversion is exempt? I love my Lord I just want peace when I die

Don’t be afraid you aren’t really saved because of that guy. Nowhere in the Bible does it indicate that conversion is only legitimate if it happens in a church, that is a complete lie

seth wrote:

Opeth3232 wrote:

deathisgain wrote:

Opeth3232 wrote:I have been in this ongoing debate for a while with a neighbor that's starting to get out of hand to the point I've had to cut ties with him and wife simply because I disagree with him and her on what is satanic and what isn't. They are very conservative Baptists and they have been trying to prove to me christian metal is of the devil through symbolism on album covers. The first thing they used as evidence is Stryper and ther triangle that it's a symbol of the illuminati and they left no room for discussion and it was there truth and nothing else I was stumped with them it was really out of no where and off putting,, how do you answer this kind of certainty how in the world do you talk to people who have already made up there minds and why does Michael Sweet block people when a question like that is asked which I actually went to his messenger and quietly asked him if he could explain and help me answer my neighbors questions and he quietly blocked me no explanationno nothing?! What a way to treat fans who pay your bills the other examples they used was Theocracy and there Mosaic cd supposedly you can make out 666 in the Mosaic art work. I'm just tired of this the satanic panic of the 80s is still alive and well apparently. Any thoughts on how to deal with the Real still alive extremist ideology lol I guess that's appropriate if you saw there reactions to my rebuttal

They are not going to be won over with words or crafty arguments. I would ignore them, live my life the best way I can honor God, and let them deal with themselves. People want to find the devil in everything. One of the hardest reasons to get people like that to change, is they believe that everything they think is true, is what God thinks is true. Because they believe in the truth of God and his word, so therefor everything else they think is the same.

That's what bothers me is they are So Sure they are right and that kind of certainty is scary. I didn't get saved in a church I got saved on a dirty floor listening to What's Following The Grave By Bloodgood. I just went to my knees and begged for God's mercy when I heard that song and when people like them say what they are saying it scares me that because I didn't get saved under brother or sister such and such does that mean my conversion is exempt? I love my Lord I just want peace when I die

Don’t be afraid you aren’t really saved because of that guy. Nowhere in the Bible does it indicate that conversion is only legitimate if it happens in a church, that is a complete lie

I appreciate that dear friend thank you so much. I always thought finally we are past this finally but with some it's still alive and well that level of fear of what we don't understand

seth wrote:I honestly don’t think it’s worth arguing about. His opinion may be wrong, but it’s not worth division between believers to argue about it imo. And if his conscience is bothered by listening to metal, for whatever reason, then it may be best to just not listen to it or talk about it around him, based on Paul’s guidelines about not causing weaker brothers to stumble.
That’s not the first time I’ve heard the thing about the Mosaic cover looking like 666 though lol. If someone really wants to think something is evil, they can come up with a way to convince themselves of it

It got started over me mowing the lawn with a Stryper Fallen shirt on without going into all this boring detail I ended up with a handful of Chick tracks and a Jeff Godwin book and all I wanted to do was mow my lawn nothing more and nothing less that and a big glass of tea afterwards but nope

Everybody knows Stryper are performing at the next Bilderberg conference.

Why should the devil have all the good symbols?

I will state right off the bat that I sometimes see a Christian metal album cover design with weird symbols that I find to be ill-advised, ill-conceived, or just plain puzzling.  However I rarely "throw out the baby with the bath water" and avoid the music based on the album cover.  Because sometimes I read an interview and the band explains why they chose this design and then it makes more sense.  Sometimes it is a cultural difference that makes them choose those symbols.  Sometimes it is just immaturity or a desire to attract a secular audience.  Bottom line, equating an ill-advised album design with evil intent does not always work.

Dude, wear your Fallen shirt and drink a Monster next time you mow your lawn.

Opeth3232 wrote:

deathisgain wrote:

Opeth3232 wrote:I have been in this ongoing debate for a while with a neighbor that's starting to get out of hand to the point I've had to cut ties with him and wife simply because I disagree with him and her on what is satanic and what isn't. They are very conservative Baptists and they have been trying to prove to me christian metal is of the devil through symbolism on album covers. The first thing they used as evidence is Stryper and ther triangle that it's a symbol of the illuminati and they left no room for discussion and it was there truth and nothing else I was stumped with them it was really out of no where and off putting,, how do you answer this kind of certainty how in the world do you talk to people who have already made up there minds and why does Michael Sweet block people when a question like that is asked which I actually went to his messenger and quietly asked him if he could explain and help me answer my neighbors questions and he quietly blocked me no explanationno nothing?! What a way to treat fans who pay your bills the other examples they used was Theocracy and there Mosaic cd supposedly you can make out 666 in the Mosaic art work. I'm just tired of this the satanic panic of the 80s is still alive and well apparently. Any thoughts on how to deal with the Real still alive extremist ideology lol I guess that's appropriate if you saw there reactions to my rebuttal

They are not going to be won over with words or crafty arguments. I would ignore them, live my life the best way I can honor God, and let them deal with themselves. People want to find the devil in everything. One of the hardest reasons to get people like that to change, is they believe that everything they think is true, is what God thinks is true. Because they believe in the truth of God and his word, so therefor everything else they think is the same.

That's what bothers me is they are So Sure they are right and that kind of certainty is scary. I didn't get saved in a church I got saved on a dirty floor listening to What's Following The Grave By Bloodgood. I just went to my knees and begged for God's mercy when I heard that song and when people like them say what they are saying it scares me that because I didn't get saved under brother or sister such and such does that mean my conversion is exempt? I love my Lord I just want peace when I die

I’ve been told my whole life that extreme metal can’t be of God because “just listen to how they sound!”. Always bothered me, thinking I wasn’t doing right by God because of the music I loved or the darker, more gritty artwork and things I liked. When I got put back on the path to God recently it’s one of the things I earnestly prayed about, and mid prayer I got a very personal answer from Him that this style of music was a part of my purpose He created me for. Literally had me crying tears of relief and thankfulness while listening to an Orationem track. God works in wonderful, and very personal ways with all of us in our walk with Him, and to be saved on a dirty floor is just as amazing and true as being saved in a church. Jesus gave salvation to a thief dying on a cross. God is not limited to the walls of a building, or the walls of our minds

Opeth3232 wrote:Chick tracks and a Jeff Godwin

Enuff said.

ShotGunderson wrote:Literally had me crying tears of relief and thankfulness while listening to an Orationem track.

Well NOW I think you're going to hell!

Opeth3232 wrote:I have been in this ongoing debate for a while with a neighbor that's starting to get out of hand to the point I've had to cut ties with him and wife simply because I disagree with him and her on what is satanic and what isn't. They are very conservative Baptists and they have been trying to prove to me christian metal is of the devil through symbolism on album covers. The first thing they used as evidence is Stryper and ther triangle that it's a symbol of the illuminati and they left no room for discussion and it was there truth and nothing else I was stumped with them it was really out of no where and off putting,, how do you answer this kind of certainty how in the world do you talk to people who have already made up there minds and why does Michael Sweet block people when a question like that is asked which I actually went to his messenger and quietly asked him if he could explain and help me answer my neighbors questions and he quietly blocked me no explanationno nothing?! What a way to treat fans who pay your bills the other examples they used was Theocracy and there Mosaic cd supposedly you can make out 666 in the Mosaic art work. I'm just tired of this the satanic panic of the 80s is still alive and well apparently. Any thoughts on how to deal with the Real still alive extremist ideology lol I guess that's appropriate if you saw there reactions to my rebuttal

As a Conservative Baptist, I apologize for the spiritual abuse you are currently receiving from your neighbors and the close-mindedness of Mr. Sweet who didn't take the time to help answer to your questions.  Sadly, Michael can probably only handle so many questions like this and just gets tired of having to answer questions about his faith and his involvement in metal over the years.

As for your neighbors, you really cannot change the minds of people who have completely made up their mind.  If they are convinced that metal is of the devil, then they are going to see you in a poor light no matter what you do to convince them.  But, do not stoop to their level and keep loving them and shining the light of Christ into their lives.  Even if they never come around, answer their judgmentalism with more love just as Jesus would have.  There is no greater weapon that we have to fight battles like this.  Remember, it is our Savior that we represent--not the music we love.