Currently reading?

We've been reading "Trusting God". A very timely study about the sovereignty of God. Also "The Screwtape Letters"

eatbugs wrote:

Constantine wrote:

eatbugs wrote:Question for the readers here: Is there a current author writing supernatural/suspense novels like this?  I've been a fan since high school but his output is low (granted, better few and good than lots of mediocre) and he hasn't published anything in about 8 years.  I don't have to necessarily agree with all of the theological minutia (I don't with Peretti), it just has to be Christian-based.

You might want to investigate Terry Brennan and see if his writing is up your alley.   His work is not really supernatural but he does write thrillers.  He and I were in a Christian Men's Group in the early 2000's.  I don't know what his theology is like now, but his books do fairly well and get great reviews so it might be worth looking into.

Ok.  As time and money permit I'll check him out.

Currently reading:  Peretti - Monster.

Some of Travis Thrasher's novels might also be up your alley.  While she isn't doing a lot of novel writing now, Rene Gutteridge might also work for you.  I have read a couple of her books.

I recently started reading John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion. My goal is to eventually read all of it, although that is going to take quite some time. I'm about 100 pages in and am still in the prefatory address to the king (there was like a 70 page introduction before any of Calvin's own words, lol).

For a couple different reasons I've been reading a lot lately.  I've recently finished:

Touching the Void, Joe Simpson (2nd time through!) -- absolutely incredible story of disaster and survival surrounding a climbing disaster in the Andes.  I've read a good number of mountaineering/adventure/etc books, and this is probably my favorite, would recommend to anybody who thinks it might be interested.

Factfulness, by Hans Rosling -- fascinating, I ate this up.  Tremendously enlightening about the world, sociology, etc., and filled with both information and tools to help better think about/understand the world.  A couple of values are suggested that most of us (myself included) would not share, but they're really irrelevant to the pretty much everything and easily dismissed, at least for me.  Again, would recommend to anybody who thinks it sounds interesting and wants to learn.

Irresistible, by Andy Stanley -- honestly kind of "meh."  I don't think it's the heresy that many call it.  I do think he overstated some things, and his sort of conclusion leaves some things kind of unanswered and potentially troublesome IMO, but for the most part, it's like 300 pages of what Paul said without trouble in something as short of Galatians.  Not really that shocking, not really that controversial, yes, we're not under the authority of the OT law.  But if you didn't know that, much quicker to just read Galatians. . . .


CrimsonWarrior -- Institutes?  Holy cats, you're a heavy hitter!

Yeah lol this is my first time reading something this massive/substantial. I've read other books about Reformed theology but most of them were written more recently and were smaller and focused on a more specific topic.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it! Maybe one of these days I'll do the same... like in 18 years when my kid is moved out hahaha.

The Great Gain Of Godliness by Thomas Watson. Oh my soul has thirsted for getting back to books like this! I needed this book right now.

Demons by Michael Heiser.

Just finished Love Does by Bob Goff.  Mostly enjoyed it, it was a fun and easy read that had a lot of really incredible stories.  There was also an absolute ton of sort of generally baseless “You know, I think Jesus is a lot like _______. . .” although I don’t feel like any of it was too terrible in and of itself, though much was left open enough to be potentially troublesome depending upon the filter through which one read.  But generally positive, and I enjoyed it.  Sort of for fans of Donald Miller, which is 100% me, except I would read Blue Like Jazz or (especially!!!) A Million Miles in a Thousand Years before I’d suggest this one.

Tomorrow I should start Prayer by Tim Keller.  Looking forward to it.

Related, I don’t know if anybody here could help with this, but I’ve been thinking about reading an atheist first hand, along the lines of Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris.  From casually reading reviews, it sounds like a lot of their stuff is insulting, and “savage!!!” or whatever.  I’m really not interested in being insulted, but would like to read a fair and first-hand account of their thoughts and positions.  Anybody have a good direction to point me in?

Abaddon's Gate by James S.A. Corey

Athonite wrote:Finished The Lays of Beleriand, now flying through On the Incarnation by St. Athanasius of Alexandria.

A fellow Orthodox Christian, I presume? I need to read St. Athanasius. I'm about to start The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church by Vladimir Lossky.

Currently reading The New Testament and the People of God: Christian Origins and the Question of God, Volume 1 by N.T. Wright and Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy: Finding the Way to Christ in a Complicated Religious Landscape by Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick.

Finished The Lays of Beleriand, now flying through On the Incarnation by St. Athanasius of Alexandria.

A fellow Orthodox Christian, I presume? I need to read St. Athanasius. I'm about to start The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church by Vladimir Lossky.

Christos Anesti!

Glad to know I'm not the only Orthodox here.  I'm technically still a catechumen, though I would have been chrismated by now if the pandemic hadn't shut things down.

I definitely recommend On the Incarnation.

Just finished Tim Keller “Prayer.” Wow, I’ve read a decent handful of books on prayer, and I think that was by far the best, I suspect there will be more Keller in my future.  CW, there were even a couple of “Institutes” references!

Prior to getting married, my wife and I read Keller's book The Meaning Of Marriage which I highly recommend.  Perhaps we'll have to add his prayer book to the ever-growing reading list...

Kerrick wrote:Prior to getting married, my wife and I read Keller's book The Meaning Of Marriage which I highly recommend.  Perhaps we'll have to add his prayer book to the ever-growing reading list...

Yes, that would be the one that most piqued my interest.  I have a list as well, but that will be somewhere on it!

Athanasius wrote:Currently reading The New Testament and the People of God: Christian Origins and the Question of God, Volume 1 by N.T. Wright and Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy: Finding the Way to Christ in a Complicated Religious Landscape by Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick.

Finished The Lays of Beleriand, now flying through On the Incarnation by St. Athanasius of Alexandria.

A fellow Orthodox Christian, I presume? I need to read St. Athanasius. I'm about to start The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church by Vladimir Lossky.

Christos Anesti!

Glad to know I'm not the only Orthodox here.  I'm technically still a catechumen, though I would have been chrismated by now if the pandemic hadn't shut things down.

I definitely recommend On the Incarnation.

Alithos Anesti! I started catechesis about 5 years ago and was baptized 3 years ago. It's always a bit of a journey, but I hope they are able to do your chrismation soon!

I listened to all of Fr. Damick's lectures in the "Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy" series while I was traveling to my catechism classes. They are very informative.

Just finished Andy Stanley “New Rules for Love, Sex, and Dating.”  It’s written to people younger than me and dating, but for what it was I thought quite excellent, kind of classic Andy.  Says truly helpful, profound, biblical things in compelling fashion.  Would definitely recommend to anybody younger/unmarried or in youth/college/young adult ministry.

^I'm curious, what's his general understanding of what dating should look like? The Bible provides basically zero instructions on how to get from singleness to marriage so people tend to draw a lot of different conclusions. The last book I read on the topic wasn't great (it was actually anti-dating, pro-courtship, and I still don't really know what that means). A lot of what made that book pretty bad was the dogmatic assertion of a particular stance on an issue to which Scripture doesn't directly speak.

CrimsonWarrior wrote:^I'm curious, what's his general understanding of what dating should look like? The Bible provides basically zero instructions on how to get from singleness to marriage so people tend to draw a lot of different conclusions. The last book I read on the topic wasn't great (it was actually anti-dating, pro-courtship, and I still don't really know what that means). A lot of what made that book pretty bad was the dogmatic assertion of a particular stance on an issue to which Scripture doesn't directly speak.

Sure -- though the book wasn't really about dating or how the process should look, and the title is kind of misleading, in that I don't really remember much for "rules."

The biggest single thrust of the book was simply to stop looking for the right person and instead to start becoming the person that the person you're looking for is looking for.  There was a lot about how it's damaging and foolish to take the mindset of "I'll mess around for a while and settle down/change when the right person shows up," and how not only will you not change for a relationship, but the person you're looking for won't be looking for you in the first place.  A lot about asking yourself if ____________ is something that you would want your future spouse involved in, or if it's something that you'd be tempted to lie about to your eventual "right person." 

Naturally, a lot of that revolved around sexuality.  I don't even think it ever came right out and said "save sexual intimacy for marriage," although it was clearly promoted.  But most of it more explained the unintended -- and never spoken about!!! -- consequences of loose sexuality, how sex is so much more than just physical, how it covers up problems in relationships that should be addressed, that repeated partners breaks down it's intended ability to glue two people together and damages the capacity for intimacy, things like that.  There wasn't really even much direct Scripture, although I recall pointing to the passages which speak of marriage/sexuality "uniting" two people who become one.

It was all clearly and unapologetically "Christian" but at the same time clearly written with a somewhat more general audience in mind, for whom saying "here in book/chapter/verse it says. . ." wouldn't be viewed as authoritative, and kind of with the assumption that most readers of the dating/marrying age were already sexually active. . . which of course, he knows is true even in churches.  So in a lot of ways, it probably wasn't entirely written to you either CW, if I can assume you're at minimum already intending on honoring God with all areas of your life.  But so often as parents/the church, most of what we say is just "don't," or empty threats based on fear of "don't. . . or you'll get AIDS or something!"  This filled in those gaps of so helpfully explaining so much of how God's boundaries are SO for your good in a way that is intelligent, compassionate, and forward-pointing.  And that you just don't hear basically anywhere.

I'll try not to preach, but though I'd not read the book, I've heard some of his messages that I'm guessing were the foundation for the book, and had brought some of the insights to messages that I've preached, about how sex is spiritual, it unites two people together to become one in ways that can't be just untangled or forgotten, how it affects people, and how viewed through the right filter Scripture displays all of this quite clearly.  It's TOUGH and heavy in a room full of people with checkered histories -- but the response has been overwhelming.  It's all so obvious, once people can see it!  But dang, nobody ever explains the stuff anywhere other than a church. . . and usually not even there.  Tragic.  But I said I'd try not to preach. . . .

Grindboy wrote:Just finished Tim Keller “Prayer.” Wow, I’ve read a decent handful of books on prayer, and I think that was by far the best, I suspect there will be more Keller in my future.  CW, there were even a couple of “Institutes” references!

I haven't read any of his work, but I may give that one a go when I have the chance.

CrimsonWarrior wrote:^I'm curious, what's his general understanding of what dating should look like? The Bible provides basically zero instructions on how to get from singleness to marriage so people tend to draw a lot of different conclusions. The last book I read on the topic wasn't great (it was actually anti-dating, pro-courtship, and I still don't really know what that means). A lot of what made that book pretty bad was the dogmatic assertion of a particular stance on an issue to which Scripture doesn't directly speak.

That wouldn't happen to be Joshua Harris' I Kissed Dating Goodbye, would it?  He later reconsidered his views and apologized to anyone who suffered due to his advice.  Eventually, he and his wife split and he announced he is no longer a Christian.

As for the lack of Biblical advice on the subject, was there even any sort of courtship procedure in Biblical times?  My understanding is that marriages were usually arranged, and were about economics and continuing one's family line.  If you had romantic love, so much the better, but it wasn't the big concern.  The modern Western ideas of marriage and dating, Christian and otherwise, are something very different.

Scripture does give some advice on marriage of course, but although it speaks of loving one's spouse, I would be hesitant to assume it meant romantic love.  I don't suppose anyone here has knowledge of Greek that might be helpful?

The only thing I can think of from the Bible that would be helpful for someone looking for marriage in this day and age is the instruction not to be "unequally yoked," and listing of virtues for Christians in general would be usual when considering someone as a potential mate.

I tell you though, I'm glad I don't have to navigate the whole dating scene in this day and age.

@Grindboy gotcha, thanks for the summary. Yeah people do really need to be aware of the psychological and spiritual effects of all of that stuff.

@Athanasius, no, thankfully it wasn't that. I've heard things like that about that book/author so that's not something I would read. And yeah, in Biblical times we have some examples of how people got from singleness to marriage but hardly any of them seem prescriptive. Many of them were arranged (Rebekah agreed to marry Isaac before ever seeing or meeting him). In Judges, Othniel won the right to marry Achsah through an act of war. Ruth married Boaz due to the kinsman-redeemer concept present in the law. Jacob worked for years for Laban to marry both of his daughters. And in the New Testament, I can't come up with a single example of a wedding (other than the one at Cana, but we don't know the details of that) off the top of my head. But I think it's clear enough that these aren't examples that we are supposed to follow. So that's why I hate it when people say, "I've figured it out; I have the only right way to do this, the only way that is God-honoring."

Grindboy wrote:Just finished Tim Keller “Prayer.” Wow, I’ve read a decent handful of books on prayer, and I think that was by far the best, I suspect there will be more Keller in my future.  CW, there were even a couple of “Institutes” references!

This is one of the best books on prayer I've encountered! I love that he looks back to Luther AND Calvin. If you've got the patience, Calvin's section on prayer in the Institutes is like this book on steroids! If only my faith was big enough to encompass all of this!

I've been reading Mike Horton's "Pilgrim Theology" and I've got to say that it really takes "Core Christianity" to a different level. If you have 30 minutes, the Core Christianity podcast is wonderful. If you have a little more time, the White Horse Inn podcast takes things a little deeper. Both have greatly blessed me.

I love the live for Keller’s book!  It really was unusually good along several different avenues.

Also amused by the talk of “I Kissed Dating Goodbye.”  I never read it, but was single and (naturally!) on the prowl at a Christian college when it was popular.  Along with the entire male enrollment, whenever a (cute) girl was spotted with that book we all “Christian cussed” (“gosh dang, frickin’ Joshua Harris!”) and moved our sights to somebody else.  Wonderful, terrible memories!

Last year I asked a girl out who had been influenced by I Kissed Dating Goodbye. (For context, I just finished junior year of college this year.) I had a conversation with her father, who told me that I would need to get to know her strictly in group settings and that "courting" would be a possibility in the future. He also recommended to me a different book (the one to which I referred before) which also had an anti-dating message.

In my opinion you can kinda get to know someone in group settings, but you can never find out if you can really talk to a person. I'm not the best conversationalist. In order to be able to carry on a conversation with someone, I need to have some similarities with them. So I can't figure out if I really "click" with a girl unless I can spend time talking with just her (and not through a phone, but face-to-face). And there are things that you simply can't learn about a person if you can't have prolonged, serious conversations with each other. So I think ultimately, with this "courtship" thing, whatever that is, it would be very difficult to actually know who you're marrying unless some opportunity for real conversation is eventually provided.

Also, the mentality of "you don't need to go looking for love; it will find you" is very misleading and damaging, I think. It sounds equivalent to saying, "I trust God for my provision, so I don't need to go to work and earn money to support myself. He'll take care of it." If I want to get married someday (and I do), then I need to put effort into it! Yes, I pray about it, and yes, I trust in God for it, but that doesn't mean sitting back and just being idle.

The contemporary dating culture is very weird among Christians, especially at my university. There are all sorts of varying parental rules, different philosophies about how long you have to know someone before you can date, and different standards of where to draw the line when it comes to physical contact. My roommate dated a girl two years ago for a couple months and her parents kept an iron grip on their relationship from states away, forcing him to report to them about his Bible reading each week and prohibiting them from riding in a car together without another person present. I'm tired of all that crap and just actually want to get to know a person, you know? I just want to talk. No drama, no immorality. But it's hard to find people who haven't created all sorts of artificial rules for themselves. Quite frustrating.

Well, thanks for letting me rant. Apparently things worked out for you eventually Grindboy, so I know I'm not without hope despite my current environment lol.

I feel your pain CW, I transferred to a Christian college for about 60% to find a cute Christian Ms Right (and about 30% in hopes of a Christ-honoring metal band!), and in my 2 1/2 years there I managed exactly one not that interesting group date.  Lots of reasons for that, which aren’t interesting.  I never did read Harris or anything really about “dating,” but in general I believed and still believe that there is a GREAT deal to gain by getting to know somebody as much as possible outside of the context of a romantic relationship.  Our brains go mad and we basically don’t think straight and can’t make good decisions.  I’m not at all anti-dating, but I do think it’s crazy the way so many people meet someone cute, start a relationship quickly, and try to get to know somebody in that blurred reality context.  That said, arranged marriages have as good of a success rate as Western “romantic” marriages, so there’s no reason it can’t work, necessarily.  Anyway, long uninteresting story, but yes!  Even a ridiculous dude like me DID end up very happily married to a seriously amazing woman, and it had nothing to do with college.  So there’s more hope than it feels like, I promise!

I know we’re in serious thread drift territory here, but just curious what U you’re at?