Christian Black Metal doc

Heres a video that I found interesting discussing Christian BM.

Interesting to see that even among Christian musicians, there is disagreement as to whether or not to call it black metal.

I watched the first 8 minutes, will watch more later. Very good so far.

Interesting! Thanks for posting!

Yeah, I've heard that argument before. Calling it Unblack, as Black stands for Satanism. I can see both sides to this issue.

I think its just a term so people can get a radar-fix on what kind of metal they are about to listen too.

.....just like " death " metal. You wanna confuse people ? Start saying your band plays " life " metal.

Yeah, I agree sentient. That's why I always call it Black Metal. But I have a few friends who call in Unblack if it's Christian. Kinda weird, but I never argue with them lol!

I watched this documentary a while ago.

I understand both sides to a certain extent but I agree with the people who call it black metal rather than unblack. As explained in the video, the old definition of black metal is outdated. It doesn't have to be Satanic or evil anymore. It's simply a name for a genre. It implies a sound but no specific lyrics.

That being said, I can understand why Jayson Sherlock called his music "holy unblack metal". Back in 1994, almost all black metal was Satanic.

Good points, Crimson!

Interesting video

Yeah I saw this documentary a while ago as well. It's a good one. Tough to find high production value Christian black metal interviews so this kind of film is always welcome. Makes a person think too I suppose, though I have been into black metal for many years now.

PILGRIM IS THE MAN!!!  HA!

Love the clip from Horde live in Oslo too.

Yeah, I remember this making the rounds before.  It's pretty interesting for what it is, I suppose.

I love how Nicholas from Pantokrator is smiling and chuckling and lighthearted the whole way though.  Seems very "un-black metal" but seems like he'd be actually fun to hang out with.  Although. . . does anybody consider Pantokrator black metal?  Or even close?

Also of course love the "black metal scholar" guy (that's even a funny phrase) saying that Crimson Moonlight's the best black metal band around.  Of course I'm not sure they're really black metal anymore either, exactly, but whatever they are they're my band!

After listening to a few bands ...I cant take Christian black metal seriously........or "UnBLACK" I mean even that is a joke in itself......

Grindboy wrote:I love how Nicholas from Pantokrator is smiling and chuckling and lighthearted the whole way though.  Seems very "un-black metal" but seems like he'd be actually fun to hang out with.  Although. . . does anybody consider Pantokrator black metal?  Or even close?

Also of course love the "black metal scholar" guy (that's even a funny phrase) saying that Crimson Moonlight's the best black metal band around.  Of course I'm not sure they're really black metal anymore either, exactly, but whatever they are they're my band!

I agree about Nicholas. He seems fun to hang out with. And you're right, Pantokrator's not a black metal band, they're progressive death.

CM is still black metal, they're just black/death now (and have been since 2004).

Throne of thorns wrote:After listening to a few bands ...I cant take Christian black metal seriously........or "UnBLACK" I mean even that is a joke in itself......

I'm curious. Is that based on the quality of the music or the pretense of lyrical expression coupled with the music, or what about it troubles you?

CrimsonWarrior wrote:I watched this documentary a while ago.

I understand both sides to a certain extent but I agree with the people who call it black metal rather than unblack. As explained in the video, the old definition of black metal is outdated. It doesn't have to be Satanic or evil anymore. It's simply a name for a genre. It implies a sound but no specific lyrics.

That being said, I can understand why Jayson Sherlock called his music "holy unblack metal". Back in 1994, almost all black metal was Satanic.

Agree completely.  I think Jayson remains convinced that there is a strong distinction between black metal and unblack metal.  Seems I saw him at some point (maybe on FB) talk about how Christians cannot play black metal.

Personally, I think unblack is a dumb label, but I understand why people want to distinguish and I don't argue with or mock them.  Live by your convictions.

Throne of Thorns, I can recommend some good bands if the quality is the issue.

Besides Satanism and the Occult, which of these other common Black Metal ideologies is not negative?
utter hopelessness / racism/ hatred / misanthropy/ individualism / nihilism / paganism / glorification of evil / suicidal depression / demonic/ torment oppression / etc

negative = black

Drawnsword, what would you call black metal bands like Bal-Sagoth then? They're not Christian but they're also not negative.

Modifying a genre's name based on the lyrics just seems unnecessary to me.

At a glance an allegory of evil glorification fantasy.

True Black Metal denies being a genre.

Drawnsword wrote:True Black Metal denies being a genre.

What does "true black metal" call itself then?...

CrimsonWarrior wrote:

Drawnsword wrote:True Black Metal denies being a genre.

What does "true black metal" call itself then?...

Pure Fooking Evil! Black Metal is a movement, an underground expression of black ideologies and an extreme rebellion of sound, spirit, and feeling that's not even understood by the general mainstream metal scene mostly.

Um...I'll just quote Pilgrim and leave it at that.

"We believe that all kinds of music are now neutral. I mean, a music genre cannot be "evil" itself. It all depends on the purpose: why you're doing it and what the lyrics are about. I will use an illustration to explain: a knife in the hands of a murderer can kill life, but a knife in the hands of a doctor can save life. Now is the knife evil itself? No, it depends on how you use it. The power is in our hands to decide what we want to use music for. I know that many black metal fans react badly when we use the words "black metal" to describe our music, and we are sorry if we make people upset for that. But for us, black metal is a musical genre. Listen to Veil of Remembrance and tell me what kind of music it is."

Black Metal is definitely a musical genre to me!

But I know also that a lot of 'troo fooking evil' types consider it something else. But to be honest, I think it's sad how full of 'hate' these people are. They all need a big hug!

Sorry if this has already been said, but I think coining a whole new term "unblack" for black metal that just happens to have Christian lyrics is the silliest thing I can imagine.

Like I'm a blues artist, but I want positive lyrics so... unblues? Or like some people have called Christian (black) metal "White Metal", I guess I could call my happy blues music "Oranges"?

I get it. Darkthrone made Unholy Black Metal, so Horde made Holy Unblack Metal. Its a nice idea. Couldn't have thought of a better album name myself.
...using that name as a banner to pave the way for the entire "Christian" scene - HUGE mistake.

Drawnsword, I disagree with the black metal genre being defined by anything other than its signature sound. What's defined as "trve" black metal is what the founders, who were little more than creative yet mentally unstable, completely close minded maniacs.

Like any genre of music, it will evolve (and has evolved) or it will die or stay in a little box that only the delusional consider elite.

The point is, black metal doesn't have to talk about trve and kvlt topics, death metal doesn't have to talk about death and carnage, rock doesn't have to talk about minerals.

CrimsonWarrior wrote:Drawnsword, what would you call black metal bands like Bal-Sagoth then? They're not Christian but they're also not negative.

Modifying a genre's name based on the lyrics just seems unnecessary to me.

I used to listen to Bal-Sagoth but read some interviews with Byron and they did have lyrics against Christianity, just in a fantasy world.  They wrote about a religious threat from East and according to Byron this was Christianity.

Interesting. I guess that band was a poor example to use.