45 Years Ago Today Black Sabbath Released "Paranoid"

deathisgain wrote:I find it interesting that you don't seem to listen to any early metal, and yet, seem to quickly judge what is or isn't metal.

Cuz Ozzy said so.

The real mystery is how he knew who Ozzy was.

d@v!d wrote:

deathisgain wrote:I find it interesting that you don't seem to listen to any early metal, and yet, seem to quickly judge what is or isn't metal.

Cuz Ozzy said so.

The real mystery is how he knew who Ozzy was.

And we all know Ozzy is has the mind of a 2 year old.

deathisgain wrote:I find it interesting that you don't seem to listen to any early metal, and yet, seem to quickly judge what is or isn't metal.

I...  don't need hours of listening to something to determine if its metal or not.
I mean, pretty much verse → chorus at any band's full swing is enough to make a decision.

On that note, I think the variable here is time.
Who thinks Black Sabbath is metal?  Apart from ignoring what the band says what genre they are, it goes back to when Black Sabbath literally was the heaviest band around.  The heaviest bands are metal.  Therefore, metal.  ...then convince yourself that this is eternal, and the music industry 50 years ago is immortal.  Voila.  That is EXACTLY what's going on here.

Who doesn't think Black Sabbath is metal?  Apart from actually listening to what the band and thousands of ROCK fans categorize the genre as, my experience with Black Sabbath is relatively new in comparison.  I mean, I may have heard this as a kid or on a commercial, but I ignored it because I wasn't interested - but music overall has certainly gotten heavier in the last 50 years.

Black Sabbath was never the heaviest band at one time for me.  
Black Sabbath was never an early staple in my hard music pallet.
By the time I'd actually gave Black Sabbath a listening ear, I'd already heard "radio rock" that was more distorted, more driven, more powerful.

My music history explains why I missed what I missed.

I pretty much listened to exclusively Contemporary Christian Music until my freshman year in high school.  Sophomore year, I was into Tooth and Nail / Solid State bands.  By my Junior year in high school, I was listening to almost exclusively Christian death metal.  ...and its been steady death and black metal for 16 years, starting from the late 90's.

I've never heard an Anthrax song.  I saw Iron Maiden on TV once.  I know very little of Metallica and Megadeath.  I think I heard of King Diamond a few years ago.  Is Danzig metal?  They have a cool cover for one of their CDs.

I almost completely missed 80-90's "heavy metal" and went straight to the heaviest/harshest music on the planet. When your music preference is like mine, regardless of what you call 80's rock bands, its harder for someone like me to step back decades to a weaker genre and try to enjoy something that's already not as fast, not as heavy, not as melodic, not as epic, not as atmospheric and (sorry, just my view here folks) ....  just not as good, in comparison to what are now my circle of favorite artists.

In closing, if you want to call Black Sabbath "heavy metal" on your iPod, go for it.  Call it "super psychodelic 70's metal" for all its worth.  You're not going to convince me its metal.  The band's comments and my ears are all the evidence I need.

Also, there's no need to insult me Headshrinker or David.

Sounds like you need to get a little more educated in the Metal world my friend. No offense, but you seem a little naïve.

You're right about being naive about early metal and hard rock HISTORY.

As far as being naive in "the metal world", you couldn't be more wrong.  I have recorded, produced and released 7 full length METAL albums (on 5 different record labels) since 2011.  

Want me to list the releases and labels?

Don't tell me I don't know what metal is.  I MAKE IT.  Have you even made one metal release or are you just the entitled listener?  Maybe you shouldn't make remarks like that unless you actually have room to talk or even know who you're talking to...

ThomasEversole wrote:Also, there's no need to insult me Headshrinker or David.

Where did I insult you?
I just thought it funny that someone that has their head in the sand about so much music has just enough select knowledge about the subject to pronounce a judgment that goes against what is apparent to everyone else that regularly engages in the subject. You can't see the humor in that?

Actually, I asked you a simple question twice that you have ignored. What do you think about the Dickies version?

Really, I wonder why there so much discussion about .. https://screen.yahoo.com/star-trek-convention-000000768.html

Alluding to how surprising it was that I knew Ozzy.

Never heard the Dickies version.

ThomasEversole wrote:Alluding to how surprising it was that I knew Ozzy.

So, we are clear, right?

Never heard the Dickies version.

I posted the Dickies version.... scroll up. Check out their first 2 albums. Artists of parody, they are.

ThomasEversole wrote:You're right about being naive about early metal and hard rock HISTORY.

As far as being naive in "the metal world", you couldn't be more wrong.  I have recorded, produced and released 7 full length METAL albums (on 5 different record labels) since 2011.  

Want me to list the releases and labels?

Don't tell me I don't know what metal is.  I MAKE IT.  Have you even made one metal release or are you just the entitled listener?  Maybe you shouldn't make remarks like that unless you actually have room to talk or even know who you're talking to...

Not to keep on beating a dead horse, but if all your albums are black metal, then all you know is black metal. I work on my plumbing on occasion, doesn't make me a plumber. Trying to say that some one has to be involved in the scene just know something about it is absurd.

sad to see such a great thread go down the crapper

^Yup.  Let's get back on topic guys...

d@v!d wrote:

ThomasEversole wrote:Alluding to how surprising it was that I knew Ozzy.

So, we are clear, right?

No.

d@v!d wrote:

ThomasEversole wrote:Never heard the Dickies version.

I posted the Dickies version.... scroll up. Check out their first 2 albums. Artists of parody, they are.

I will later and good for them.

deathisgain wrote:
Not to keep on beating a dead horse, but if all your albums are black metal, then all you know is black metal. I work on my plumbing on occasion, doesn't make me a plumber. Trying to say that some one has to be involved in the scene just know something about it is absurd.

I'd like to preface that I disagreed with Black Sabbath being called metal. I provided my evidence why I viewed this. I've never seen any evidence they were metal. I figured someone would post a metal song rather than attack my metal knowledge and credibility. If you want to go there? Fine. I'll bring the rigorous honesty.

My albums are not all black metal. I also play death metal. Black and death metal have been established subgenres of metal for decades. Subgenres of metal also includes Gothic metal. Power metal. Symphonic metal. They're all metal. In key with your analogy, they're all plumbers.

You've just watched and listened to "plumbers" and you think you know more than someone who's done it for years? My first metal album was 1999, also signed.

The bottom line is, I know what metal is. Unless you have any bit of evidence that Black Sabbath is really metal, then accept it is what the band and media says. High quality hard rock.

Ok, here's some of Sabbath's heavier tunes (one is from the dio years, but it still counts as sabbath)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhZ4t7pRyjE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6WTwi1gw90

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF3jeAPGhrY

thoughts/opinions on those songs?

ThomasEversole wrote:

d@v!d wrote:

ThomasEversole wrote:Alluding to how surprising it was that I knew Ozzy.

So, we are clear, right?

No.

oh. Have you read my explanation?

Music's music, and Paranoid (and all the songs on that album) are awesome not a bad song on there or filler.

Rate Your Music is a world-wide database and it's known as an authority on genres because it's all 100% based upon user votes.

It is very clear there (if you go there, to Rate Your Music and look up Black Sabbath), that their fans ... the users have voted and the VAST majority have said that Black Sabbath is Heavy Metal.

But there is no need to argue about semantics heheh. Like Aaron says, "Paranoid" is a grand album, regardless of genre affiliation.

RavenWolf wrote:Rate Your Music is a world-wide database and it's known as an authority on genres because it's all 100% based upon user votes.  It is very clear there (if you go there, to Rate Your Music and look up Black Sabbath), that their fans ... the users have voted and the VAST majority have said that Black Sabbath is Heavy Metal.

Based 100% on user votes/contributions?  Oh, so it's like Wikipedia.  
...and we all know why Wikipedia is not always the best go-to regarding information.



There are just as many trolls on RYM.  I don't trust it yet.  I found review-skewing scores left and right spending 10 minutes reading people's jacked up comments.

RavenWolf wrote:But there is no need to argue about semantics heheh.

Right!  Why argue schematics when you can call someone naive about all things metal because you disagree with them!

d@v!d wrote:
oh. Have you read my explanation?

Yes.  I get it.  When other's mocked and attacked my "ignorance", you "joked" about it.
I'm glad you found humor in the situation.  Now, take it elsewhere please.  Thank you.

WildWorld wrote:Ok, here's some of Sabbath's heavier tunes (one is from the dio years, but it still counts as sabbath)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhZ4t7pRyjE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6WTwi1gw90

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF3jeAPGhrY

thoughts/opinions on those songs?

The last two videos, just sounded like what I've already heard of Sabbath.  

That first video though, really surprised me.  The massive drum fills and the all but straight up thrash riff was... heavy!  Moreso than anything was the brutality of the "unproduction".  (That's more of a black metal term - bands just sound more mysterious, ominous, moving...  heavy...  when the sound quality is the right kind of "lacking" or "dirty".  That "Symptom of the Universe" song captured THAT very well.)

Sorry folks, I'm probably not going to have a flash of white light "Oh, Sabbath is a metal band now" - but that song was really cool.  Regarding just that song, I'm honestly pretty confused and don't know what genre to call it.  

This side remark will most likely place me at an even greater pariah status on this thread, but the worst part about that song was Ozzy's off pitch bellowing.

ThomasEversole wrote:Yes.  I get it.  When other's mocked and attacked my "ignorance", you "joked" about it.
I'm glad you found humor in the situation.  Now, take it elsewhere please.  Thank you.

Chin up bro. I thought we had enough rapport to joke. Please accept my apology.

This side remark will most likely place me at an even greater pariah status on this thread, but the worst part about that song was Ozzy's off pitch bellowing.

As far as I'm concerned, you don't have to call the band HM or even care for the music. It's all Kirk's locker combo stuff. There's no crime in liking different music from the rest. It is, however, a bit silly to lecture others so dogmatically about something you don't care about, don't you think?

Yeah, definitely wasn't a great singer. But, what he did worked somehow to create a great ominous sound. I prefer Ozzy over others.


Now Lenard Graves Phillips is a singer to recon with.

d@v!d wrote:
Chin up bro. I thought we had enough rapport to joke. Please accept my apology.

Apology accepted.  We have the rapport to joke, generally speaking, but being that comedy is essentially timing + tragedy...  it was too soon.  This is a waaaay exaggerated example, but...  its like if I made a knife joke to someone while they were getting stabbed. It would have been hilarious several hours earlier.  HAHA!!!  

d@v!d wrote:It is, however, a bit silly to lecture others so dogmatically about something you don't care about, don't you think?

I absolutely agree and I apologize to everyone here for that.  This doesn't make it right, but I assure you - my rebuttal has very little to do with what genre any band is, and a whole lot to do with defending my honor...  (or was it my ego I was defending?)
...since I felt like comments back weren't to disagree with what I said, but to completely smash my credibility because of the disagreement.

My responses in this thread are only a very small part of a much bigger whole, but at least I got a lot off my chest this morning.

Some people enjoy arguing and fighting. But to be honest, it's not my thing. I'm a positive person and frankly, if you don't agree with me - that's ok with me!

If you want to believe that Black Sabbath is not truly a "Metal" band - that's ok!  

But I will agree with the millions of fans who believe they "ARE" Metal. Ok? Do you have a problem with that? Can't we be free to believe as we want, just as you are free to believe how you want?

I meant no offense when I said you seemed a 'bit naive'. In fact, I even told you in the same sentence, 'no offense'. It just seems that way to me.

Maybe you are not naïve. But I do think you like to argue. Again - different strokes for different folks. I'm just not a fan of arguing, so I'm gonna bow out of said topic now.  Have a great day!

No Rate Your Music is not like wikipedia,  Rate your Music is a community where you can review music, list your wants, your library rate the music,  Wikipedia is an encylopedia that anyone can edit.  Big difference.

Ok, back on Original Topic

KaramKaram wrote:Ok, back on Original Topic

Not a Filler on Paranoid several classics War Pigs, Paranoid, Iron Man, Fairies Wear Boots thats like half the album there

KaramKaram wrote:Ok, back on Original Topic

Agreed. 
Paranoid is fantastic classic metal album.  The fact that it is still discussed and revered today speaks volumes to it's place it metal history.