Black Sabbath was the 1st Christian metal band

Staybrite wrote:

NoOneIsHere wrote:I've run across many people who believe in a god but it isn't the same God I worship.

Me too, and many of them also call themselves Christians.

True

Here are some magazine quotes that I am talking about.

"I believe that Black Sabbath was a phenomenon. On that basis, when I look back now at the band, I have felt that there was a fifth member, if you like. . . So I've always considered that there was some way where we were able to channel energy, and that energy was able to be, from another source, if you like, like a higher power or something, that was actually doing the work. I've often thought of us just being actually just the earthly beings that played the music because it was uncanny. Some of this music came out extremely uncanny."
(Mike Stark, Black Sabbath An Oral History, p. 6)

Sabbath’s album "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" displays on the cover demons possessing a man while a skull with Satan’s "mark of the beast" 666 beams across the top. One of their album’s was truthful titled, "We Sold Our Soul for Rock and Roll".
The most frightening and enlightening statement concerning Black Sabbath’s real beliefs was made by drummer Bill Ward in Circus magazine:

"We’re into God," defended Iommi, an avid reader on books on astral projection. ‘But sometimes I feel Satan is God.’ Ward countered."
(Circus, May 31, 1984, p. 59)
 

And continuing down the "evil path" initiated in Black Sabbath Ozzy, told Hit Parader magazine ". . . let everybody know that I’m just as evil and just as crazy as ever". (Hit Parader, 1981 Yearbook, p. 28)

lhversaw wrote:Here are some magazine quotes that I am talking about.


The most frightening and enlightening statement concerning Black Sabbath’s real beliefs was made by drummer Bill Ward in Circus magazine:

"We’re into God," defended Iommi, an avid reader on books on astral projection. ‘But sometimes I feel Satan is God.’ Ward countered."
(Circus, May 31, 1984, p. 59)
 

That quote is exactly what I was talking about...just because someone says they worship God doesn't mean it is the same God we worship

But Geezer was always their main lyric writer (at least during the eras most anyone cares about) and he didn't say that nonsense.

lhversaw wrote:Sabbath’s album "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" displays on the cover demons possessing a man while a skull with Satan’s "mark of the beast" 666 beams across the top. One of their album’s was truthful titled, "We Sold Our Soul for Rock and Roll".

I'm quite sure that Black Sabbath had nothing do to with the cover design. Their management / label was pushing them in this direction image-wise and build up this "evil imagery". So it's a stretch to understand this cover artwork as a direct reflection of the band members' believes.
But - of course - it's also a big stretch to call Sabbath a Christian band.

Some perspective..

Some people have too narrow of view on what they deem " satanic. " A song reflecting Buddhism  should be considered " satanic. " A song reflecting a humanistic world view should be considered satanic. Sometimes things are very subtle and sometimes they are not. I Believe that satan is more interested in being subtle and presenting himself as a " angel of light " than your stereotypical demonic imagery.

Seventh Star......... but i've never made the effort to delve into those albums.

From a artistic perspective Seventh Star is very good. Mix a Sabbath vibe with a Rainbow/Purple vibe and you get Seventh Star. Its a very underrated album in my humble opinion.

sentient 6 wrote:That said, even if a large pool had just a drop of cyanide.....who would still swim in it ?

A drop of cyanide in a large pool won't kill you. They use more cyanide than that in table salt. Chlorine that they use in pools has also been used in chlorine bombs in chemical warfare through the years.

sentient 6 wrote:Some perspective..

Some people have too narrow of view on what they deem " satanic. " A song reflecting Buddhism  should be considered " satanic. " A song reflecting a humanistic world view should be considered satanic. Sometimes things are very subtle and sometimes they are not. I Believe that satan is more interested in being subtle and presenting himself as a " angel of light " than your stereotypical demonic imagery.

Satan in the Bible had specific goals and characteristics that don't all overlap with Buddhism, humanism, and so on. It wouldn't be Biblicaly correct to include all of those ideas into the specific descriptions of Satanic as described by the Bible. That doesn't mean I think those ideas are the same as Christianity, but we have to be careful not to add to the Bible what is not there. Also, the II Corinthians passage on Angel of Light is meant to refer to people that masquerade as Christians, false apostles, etc. So that would be people that are pretending to be Christians but secretly leading people away from God. But not all people that pretend to be Christians are "false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ." Sometimes they are just people that say that to fit in, but have no desire to be false, deceitful, etc.

Considering Black Sabbath a christian band because of a single song only is kind of silly...

grandeped wrote:

sentient 6 wrote:Some perspective..

Some people have too narrow of view on what they deem " satanic. " A song reflecting Buddhism  should be considered " satanic. " A song reflecting a humanistic world view should be considered satanic. Sometimes things are very subtle and sometimes they are not. I Believe that satan is more interested in being subtle and presenting himself as a " angel of light " than your stereotypical demonic imagery.

Satan in the Bible had specific goals and characteristics that don't all overlap with Buddhism, humanism, and so on. It wouldn't be Biblicaly correct to include all of those ideas into the specific descriptions of Satanic as described by the Bible. That doesn't mean I think those ideas are the same as Christianity, but we have to be careful not to add to the Bible what is not there. Also, the II Corinthians passage on Angel of Light is meant to refer to people that masquerade as Christians, false apostles, etc. So that would be people that are pretending to be Christians but secretly leading people away from God. But not all people that pretend to be Christians are "false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ." Sometimes they are just people that say that to fit in, but have no desire to be false, deceitful, etc.

Yea, but we also know that "the whole world is under the sway of the evil one", so in some sense, many could be considered "Satanic"...

grandeped wrote:

A drop of cyanide in a large pool won't kill you. They use more cyanide than that in table salt. Chlorine that they use in pools has also been used in chlorine bombs in chemical warfare through the years.

Sure, and the mustard seed is not the smallest seed that exists. But Jesus' lesson still stands none the less. How about drinking a large glass of water with only a couple specks of feces in it ?

grandeped wrote:

Satan in the Bible had specific goals and characteristics that don't all overlap with Buddhism, humanism, and so on.

Satan is the ultimate " humanist " isn't he ? His offer to Adam is repeated day in and day out. Do you really think satan cares which religion someone chooses over the worship and service of the One True God and His Christ ?

Candlemass wrote:

Yea, but we also know that "the whole world is under the sway of the evil one", so in some sense, many could be considered "Satanic"...

Bingo.

grandeped wrote:

 Also, the II Corinthians passage on Angel of Light is meant to refer to people that masquerade as Christians, false apostles, etc. So that would be people that are pretending to be Christians but secretly leading people away from God. But not all people that pretend to be Christians are "false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ." Sometimes they are just people that say that to fit in, but have no desire to be false, deceitful, etc.

Sure, and I think maybe a better contextual example would be something like WoF teachers. But I do not believe that satan limits himself in the type of world view/beliefs he may inspire in fallen men and women.

In general, I guess I am reacting to the idea that some put forth that certain bands lyrics are " harmless " just because they don't directly go against Christianity or present a overt " satanic " message. I think sometimes they still have the same effect and result. When it comes to ideas and beliefs its more complicated and subtle than that.

There are such things as neutral lyrics though, such as fantasy-based lyrics or heavy metal anthems where there's no real agenda coming through.

NoOneIsHere wrote:

lhversaw wrote:Here are some magazine quotes that I am talking about.


The most frightening and enlightening statement concerning Black Sabbath’s real beliefs was made by drummer Bill Ward in Circus magazine:

"We’re into God," defended Iommi, an avid reader on books on astral projection. ‘But sometimes I feel Satan is God.’ Ward countered."
(Circus, May 31, 1984, p. 59)
 

That quote is exactly what I was talking about...just because someone says they worship God doesn't mean it is the same God we worship

This quote was not to suggest that they were Christian or believed in God.  My purpose of sharing this quote was to show that the band have indeed indicated that Satan was who was giving them the lyrics to write.  And you left out the rest of the quotes I posted.

Rest of your quotes didn't matter to what I was saying...I would have included them if I thought they did.

My point in my post was about believing in a god doesn't automatically mean it is THE God. Wasn't trying to say anything at all about Ward's comment proving this or that about Black Sabbath themselves. He is just one member.

Showing his opinion that maybe god was Satan was showing an example of what I meant by it isn't always the same god people worship, so just because a band may sing about god doesn't mean it is THE God they sre singing about. Kind of simple, actually.

WildWorld wrote:There are such things as neutral lyrics though, such as fantasy-based lyrics or heavy metal anthems where there's no real agenda coming through.

When I think about it, the only thing I could think of that would neutral would be something like a song about paint drying. Even if a fantasy concept were a direct allegory of a Christian world view it still wouldn't be neutral. And metal " anthems " seem to stem from a glorifying of a form of entertainment.

When I try to decide whats " neutral " and what is not, I tend to be reminded of Jesus words..

" Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. "

...and this comes to mind when I think of the idea of Christian mediocrity..

...Paul...And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.


....Jesus again...“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

( sorry.....I'm preach'n again )

sentient 6 wrote:

WildWorld wrote:There are such things as neutral lyrics though, such as fantasy-based lyrics or heavy metal anthems where there's no real agenda coming through.

When I think about it, the only thing I could think of that would neutral would be something like a song about paint drying. Even if a fantasy concept were a direct allegory of a Christian world view it still wouldn't be neutral. And metal " anthems " seem to stem from a glorifying of a form of entertainment.

Paint drying is completely Satanic. Why waste time watching paint dry when you could be gathering disciples?

I think we CAN clearly state without argument that without Black Sabbath, this board would never exist.

WildWorld wrote:I think we CAN clearly state without argument that without Black Sabbath, this board would never exist.

Since we still would have Led Zep and Deep Purple, we would still have a hard rock forum. I tend to give Judas priest almost as much credit when drawing a line from then, to what we have as metal today.

LemonMouse wrote:

Paint drying is completely Satanic. Why waste time watching paint dry when you could be gathering disciples?

If its " black " paint or " red " for the fires of hell....then sure.

WildWorld wrote:I think we CAN clearly state without argument that without Black Sabbath, this board would never exist.

No, we can't, because someone else will have filled that void and taken their place. Life's like that  

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" cover, on the reverse has a totally opposite picture of a guy sleeping peacefully on his deathbed. From what I understood the meaning behind both of the images was, one (the front cover) was an evil guy dying and immediately being tormented in hell, the other was a good person dying and going to heaven. Does it make them Christian, no....but it put the cover into a different perspective for me after I heard that.