Don't have ONWARD TO FREEDOM yet?

^There's always one in every forum...    Such a punk!

1 Timothy 4:3
They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.
For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,

sentient 6 wrote:1 Timothy 4:3
They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.
For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,

Now don't go quoting scripture. That has no place here.


I'm a little conflicted. I can understand Ted's passion and yet for me it would be misplaced. Animals are important, but I think human beings are much more important. 1.3 million human beings are murdered in utero on average every year in the US. The hearts and the minds of the people are callous to this and our laws reflect it. Even more important than the rights of humans not to be murdered is the glorious gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Animal rights, human rights are worthy topics but the only thing that counts when your time is up is not if you tried to alliviate human and animal suffering, but whether you know the Author of life. If you know Him you ought to treat your peers and the beasts with charity. In fact, if you aren't, you might want to question if you truly know Him.

Not one Tourniquet song condemning abortion or dealing with human suicide (apart from Judas' in Perfect Night)...yet a plethora of lyrics pertaining to animals.     I like how Wendy Kaiser of Rez on XX Years Live provided some sensible balance by saying, "Can't we save them BOTH" (humans and whales)?

How many of you do ANYTHING to make a real difference with anything? Yet you sit and try to judge Ted for his beliefs and for doing what he feels he has been called to do.

Wow....

If you don't agree with the man, that's one thing. But don't you think this is getting to be almost an attack on him? 

Lighten up people

EDIT: ninja'd by NoOne... 

Well I see it as this:  The NRA focuses on the 2nd Amendment, the Sierra Club on nature, PETA on animals, etc.  They're all a bit extreme in one way or another, but they all accomplish a lot in their specific fields.

Is Christianity and our faiths (and in turn our music/art) any different in that sense?  Ted is obviously extremely passionate about the mistreatment of animals and I imagine has accomplished a lot in maintaining their fair treatment.  Is he a bit extreme?  By most people's standards, it'd seem probably so.  But for every Ted, there's a David who's passionate about the treatment of unborn children, someone else about human trafficking, and someone else about providing clean water to people without access to it.

I wonder if we're looking at it all under a microscopic view than a macroscopic view?  Is the grading scale of a "good Christian" how many people they have personally "brought to the Lord"?*  What about the person who never actually sees the fruit of their labor (someone they've been witnessing to accepting Christ) and yet is witnessing to people ceaselessly and living a phenomenal godly life?  Instead, God may use Person A to witness, Person B to live a godly and alluring life, and Person C to be the one who actually prays with the non-believer to first accept Christ into their life.  Why can we not extend that train of thought towards this situation as well?  If Ted is indeed actively pursuing getting to know his Creator and molding his life after the example Christ set, then I have no doubt God is using him to do great work for His kingdom.  And therefore should we really be that condemning of him who is choosing to focus his energies on something he is passionate about, assuming God's working in his life (which isn't really up to us to determine anyways)?

Just some thoughts...  I hope that made sense. 


*we all know that only God saves people, but you know what I mean...

Kerrick wrote:EDIT: ninja'd by NoOne... 

Well I see it as this:  The NRA focuses on the 2nd Amendment, the Sierra Club on nature, PETA on animals, etc.  They're all a bit extreme in one way or another, but they all accomplish a lot in their specific fields.

Is Christianity and our faiths (and in turn our music/art) any different in that sense?  Ted is obviously extremely passionate about the mistreatment of animals and I imagine has accomplished a lot in maintaining their fair treatment.  Is he a bit extreme?  By most people's standards, it'd seem probably so.  But for every Ted, there's a David who's passionate about the treatment of unborn children, someone else about human trafficking, and someone else about providing clean water to people without access to it.

I wonder if we're looking at it all under a microscopic view than a macroscopic view?  Is the grading scale of a "good Christian" how many people they have personally "brought to the Lord"?*  What about the person who never actually sees the fruit of their labor (someone they've been witnessing to accepting Christ) and yet is witnessing to people ceaselessly and living a phenomenal godly life?  Instead, God may use Person A to witness, Person B to live a godly and alluring life, and Person C to be the one who actually prays with the non-believer to first accept Christ into their life.  Why can we not extend that train of thought towards this situation as well?  If Ted is indeed actively pursuing getting to know his Creator and molding his life after the example Christ set, then I have no doubt God is using him to do great work for His kingdom.  And therefore should we really be that condemning of him who is choosing to focus his energies on something he is passionate about, assuming God's working in his life (which isn't really up to us to determine anyways)?

Just some thoughts...  I hope that made sense. 


*we all know that only God saves people, but you know what I mean...

+1

NoOneIsHere wrote:How many of you do ANYTHING to make a real difference with anything? Yet you sit and try to judge Ted for his beliefs and for doing what he feels he has been called to do.

Wow....

If you don't agree with the man, that's one thing. But don't you think this is getting to be almost an attack on him? 

Lighten up people

Just because we may not be artists "reaching the masses", does not mean we're not doing ANYTHING to make a real difference. Hopefully, Christ is us is making a real difference in our lives and of those we come in contact with. Some of us take issue w/Ted's position concerning animals, are we not free to voice them w/out fear of reprisal?

Candlemass wrote:

NoOneIsHere wrote:How many of you do ANYTHING to make a real difference with anything? Yet you sit and try to judge Ted for his beliefs and for doing what he feels he has been called to do.

Wow....

If you don't agree with the man, that's one thing. But don't you think this is getting to be almost an attack on him? 

Lighten up people

Just because we may not be artists "reaching the masses", does not mean we're not doing ANYTHING to make a real difference. Hopefully, Christ is us is making a real difference in our lives and of those we come in contact with. Some of us take issue w/Ted's position concerning animals, are we not free to voice them w/out fear of reprisal?

When did I say ANYTHING about having to be artists to make a difference? I also never said anything about reaching the masses. Try reading it again.

Stating your opinion is one thing..a witch hunt is another thing entirely.

Candlemass wrote:

NoOneIsHere wrote:How many of you do ANYTHING to make a real difference with anything? Yet you sit and try to judge Ted for his beliefs and for doing what he feels he has been called to do.

Wow....

If you don't agree with the man, that's one thing. But don't you think this is getting to be almost an attack on him? 

Lighten up people

Just because we may not be artists "reaching the masses", does not mean we're not doing ANYTHING to make a real difference. Hopefully, Christ is us is making a real difference in our lives and of those we come in contact with. Some of us take issue w/Ted's position concerning animals, are we not free to voice them w/out fear of reprisal?

A "witch hunt," really? Nice straw man.  I don't advocate the literal physical persecution and/or death of someone with whom I disagree...quit mischaracterizing our positions in order to bolster your already-sagging one.  There's this thing called the First Amendment and these things called "opinions."  Ted is allowed many, MANY paragraphs to defend his position (his rights as a free American citizen), and I am allowed mine.  If that offends you, that's your right to be offended.  There's plenty of stuff every day (on the Internet and IRL) that offends me, and I have yet to conduct a "witch hunt"   toward anyone.

Go back and read Kerrick's post.....that sums up my feeling on all of this.

Not sure how being passionate about animals is in any way comparative w/being passionate about the crowning jewels of God creation, also not sure where Ted was condemned here...

NoOneIsHere wrote:How many of you do ANYTHING to make a real difference with anything? Yet you sit and try to judge Ted for his beliefs and for doing what he feels he has been called to do.

Wow....

If you don't agree with the man, that's one thing. But don't you think this is getting to be almost an attack on him? 

Lighten up people

My whole issue is not with Ted and his beliefs or his passion for animals.  I disagree with that and do not wish to be beat over the head by a Peta agenda.  If that is what he wants to do fine.  BUT my issue IS that he took a self proclaimed SOLO album, which his solo albums HAVE been dedicated to animal rights, And then suddenly slapped Tourniquet UNDER his Name on the album cover and then tried to pawn off his ALREADY SELF PROCLAIMED SOLO ALBUM as a TOURNIQUET album and it simply isn't.  My issue with him is also that while he is trying to pawn his solo album off as a Tourniquet album he is doing so claiming this to be a metal album and by the samples I have heard it is nothing even close to metal but rather ROCK.  I do freely admit I have only heard 2  30 second samples on itunes BUT have also stated that after reading the lyrical topics I DON'T DESIRE TO HEAR MORE AND BE BEAT OVER THE HEAD BY ANOTHER PETA ALBUM.  

My issue therefore is why try to pawn this solo album off as a Tourniquet album when it isn't and when  Luke And Aaron BARELY had any part in it.  He wants to write 1000 songs on animal rights go ahead but don't pawn it off as a Tourniquet album when it isn't.  When a REAL Tourniquet album comes out I will listen to it I WILL buy it but I WON'T buy an album that is clearly a solo album pushing THIS agenda.   THAT IS MY ISSUE.  Not the lyrics  but that he is mis labeling and misinforming his fans as to what this album REALLY is.

Candlemass wrote:Not sure how being passionate about animals is in any way comparative w/being passionate about the crowning jewels of God creation, also not sure where Ted was condemned here...

Ding ding ding!!

lhversaw wrote:

NoOneIsHere wrote:How many of you do ANYTHING to make a real difference with anything? Yet you sit and try to judge Ted for his beliefs and for doing what he feels he has been called to do.

Wow....

If you don't agree with the man, that's one thing. But don't you think this is getting to be almost an attack on him? 

Lighten up people

My whole issue is not with Ted and his beliefs or his passion for animals.  I disagree with that and do not wish to be beat over the head by a Peta agenda.  If that is what he wants to do fine.  BUT my issue IS that he took a self proclaimed SOLO album, which his solo albums HAVE been dedicated to animal rights, And then suddenly slapped Tourniquet UNDER his Name on the album cover and then tried to pawn off his ALREADY SELF PROCLAIMED SOLO ALBUM as a TOURNIQUET album and it simply isn't.  My issue with him is also that while he is trying to pawn his solo album off as a Tourniquet album he is doing so claiming this to be a metal album and by the samples I have heard it is nothing even close to metal but rather ROCK.  I do freely admit I have only heard 2  30 second samples on itunes BUT have also stated that after reading the lyrical topics I DON'T DESIRE TO HEAR MORE AND BE BEAT OVER THE HEAD BY ANOTHER PETA ALBUM.  

My issue therefore is why try to pawn this solo album off as a Tourniquet album when it isn't and when  Luke And Aaron BARELY had any part in it.  He wants to write 1000 songs on animal rights go ahead but don't pawn it off as a Tourniquet album when it isn't.  When a REAL Tourniquet album comes out I will listen to it I WILL buy it but I WON'T buy an album that is clearly a solo album pushing THIS agenda.   THAT IS MY ISSUE.  Not the lyrics  but that he is mis labeling and misinforming his fans as to what this album REALLY is.

+1

NoOneIsHere wrote:

Kerrick wrote:EDIT: ninja'd by NoOne... 

Well I see it as this:  The NRA focuses on the 2nd Amendment, the Sierra Club on nature, PETA on animals, etc.  They're all a bit extreme in one way or another, but they all accomplish a lot in their specific fields.

Is Christianity and our faiths (and in turn our music/art) any different in that sense?  Ted is obviously extremely passionate about the mistreatment of animals and I imagine has accomplished a lot in maintaining their fair treatment.  Is he a bit extreme?  By most people's standards, it'd seem probably so.  But for every Ted, there's a David who's passionate about the treatment of unborn children, someone else about human trafficking, and someone else about providing clean water to people without access to it.

I wonder if we're looking at it all under a microscopic view than a macroscopic view?  Is the grading scale of a "good Christian" how many people they have personally "brought to the Lord"?*  What about the person who never actually sees the fruit of their labor (someone they've been witnessing to accepting Christ) and yet is witnessing to people ceaselessly and living a phenomenal godly life?  Instead, God may use Person A to witness, Person B to live a godly and alluring life, and Person C to be the one who actually prays with the non-believer to first accept Christ into their life.  Why can we not extend that train of thought towards this situation as well?  If Ted is indeed actively pursuing getting to know his Creator and molding his life after the example Christ set, then I have no doubt God is using him to do great work for His kingdom.  And therefore should we really be that condemning of him who is choosing to focus his energies on something he is passionate about, assuming God's working in his life (which isn't really up to us to determine anyways)?

Just some thoughts...  I hope that made sense. 


*we all know that only God saves people, but you know what I mean...

+1

+2 or +3?

So far I have successfully avoided contributing anything substantive to this discussion, but now I want to try something different.  Any time people in Christian circles speak out against animal cruelty, someone always makes the argument that yes we shouldn't treat animals inhumanely, but humans are more important than animals so all that energy should be put toward speaking out against things like abortion.  I'm surprised it has taken this long for it to come out (again) in this discussion.  I have two somewhat related thoughts on that

1.  How many anti-abortion songs are there?  How many artists use their platform to speak out against abortion?  It is being covered.  Are anti-abortion songs a requirement for all Christian artists or are people/bands allowed to be Christian AND never record an song about abortion?

2.  Related to that idea, do all Christians share the exact same calling?  The exact same mission?  The exact same ministry?  Yes, of course there is a core of sharing Christ with the world, but beyond that, do we all have to focus on the same things?  I think the answer is a resounding NO.  There's a lot of Kingdom work to be done here, and I believe God gives us different missions, different passions, so that the work gets spread around.  So what if Ted's calling, Ted's mission, is to speak out for the humane treatment of animals and to stand against their abuse?  What is that is what God is calling him to do?  Wouldn't it be sinful for him to NOT do that or to place another mission above that?  I guess what I'm saying is y'all gotta get off Ted's case for living out the mission he feels called to fulfill just because you don't agree with it.  If you don't like the lyric themes of the album, then don't buy the album.  But by the same token, just because you don't happen to agree with what he's doing doesn't mean he's wrong for doing it.

d@v!d wrote:

I'm a little conflicted. I can understand Ted's passion and yet for me it would be misplaced. Animals are important, but I think human beings are much more important. 1.3 million human beings are murdered in utero on average every year in the US. The hearts and the minds of the people are callous to this and our laws reflect it. Even more important than the rights of humans not to be murdered is the glorious gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Animal rights, human rights are worthy topics but the only thing that counts when your time is up is not if you tried to alliviate human and animal suffering, but whether you know the Author of life. If you know Him you ought to treat your peers and the beasts with charity. In fact, if you aren't, you might want to question if you truly know Him.

Right. And this, I believe, is the balanced scriptural view.

messiaen77 wrote:So far I have successfully avoided contributing anything substantive to this discussion, but now I want to try something different.  Any time people in Christian circles speak out against animal cruelty, someone always makes the argument that yes we shouldn't treat animals inhumanely, but humans are more important than animals so all that energy should be put toward speaking out against things like abortion.  I'm surprised it has taken this long for it to come out (again) in this discussion.  I have two somewhat related thoughts on that

1.  How many anti-abortion songs are there?  How many artists use their platform to speak out against abortion?  It is being covered.  Are anti-abortion songs a requirement for all Christian artists or are people/bands allowed to be Christian AND never record an song about abortion?

2.  Related to that idea, do all Christians share the exact same calling?  The exact same mission?  The exact same ministry?  Yes, of course there is a core of sharing Christ with the world, but beyond that, do we all have to focus on the same things?  I think the answer is a resounding NO.  There's a lot of Kingdom work to be done here, and I believe God gives us different missions, different passions, so that the work gets spread around.  So what if Ted's calling, Ted's mission, is to speak out for the humane treatment of animals and to stand against their abuse?  What is that is what God is calling him to do?  Wouldn't it be sinful for him to NOT do that or to place another mission above that?  I guess what I'm saying is y'all gotta get off Ted's case for living out the mission he feels called to fulfill just because you don't agree with it.  If you don't like the lyric themes of the album, then don't buy the album.  But by the same token, just because you don't happen to agree with what he's doing doesn't mean he's wrong for doing it.

+1

messiaen77 wrote:So far I have successfully avoided contributing anything substantive to this discussion, but now I want to try something different.  Any time people in Christian circles speak out against animal cruelty, someone always makes the argument that yes we shouldn't treat animals inhumanely, but humans are more important than animals so all that energy should be put toward speaking out against things like abortion.  I'm surprised it has taken this long for it to come out (again) in this discussion.  I have two somewhat related thoughts on that

1.  How many anti-abortion songs are there?  How many artists use their platform to speak out against abortion?  It is being covered.  Are anti-abortion songs a requirement for all Christian artists or are people/bands allowed to be Christian AND never record an song about abortion?

2.  Related to that idea, do all Christians share the exact same calling?  The exact same mission?  The exact same ministry?  Yes, of course there is a core of sharing Christ with the world, but beyond that, do we all have to focus on the same things?  I think the answer is a resounding NO.  There's a lot of Kingdom work to be done here, and I believe God gives us different missions, different passions, so that the work gets spread around.  So what if Ted's calling, Ted's mission, is to speak out for the humane treatment of animals and to stand against their abuse?  What is that is what God is calling him to do?  Wouldn't it be sinful for him to NOT do that or to place another mission above that?  I guess what I'm saying is y'all gotta get off Ted's case for living out the mission he feels called to fulfill just because you don't agree with it.  If you don't like the lyric themes of the album, then don't buy the album.  But by the same token, just because you don't happen to agree with what he's doing doesn't mean he's wrong for doing it.

If that's HIS calling fine.  But calling his solo album a Tournqiuet album, when it isn't and was never intended to be by his own admission, that is deceiving his fans.  That is what is not right and what Ted is getting called out on.  He has used Touriquet for a WIDE VARIETY of topics and awesome Thrash metal  that is fine.  He has used his solo career to push for animal rights and ram PETA down peoples throats, again that is fine if that is what he wants his solo stuff to be.  Taking his solo SOUND and lyrics then slapping a Tourniquet logo on it and trying to deceive people into thinking it is a WHOLE TOURNIQUET BAND ALBUM IN THE VEIN OF TOURNIQUET BOTH SOUND WISE AND LYRIC WISE when it is not and is just like his solo stuff that is wrong.  The WHOLE DECEPTION of it is wrong.  It reeks of a desperate attempt to use a LEGENDARY band name for his personal gain in the absence of being able to successfully push his agenda in his solo career.  That ruins both the solo career and the band's career and makes fans of the band's career more leary about buying their LEGIT albums due to this stunt.  I say keep solo and band separate so there is no confusion and no deception and use the solo stuff the way he has and use the band the way he has and not ruin a good thing by trying to combine the two.  In other words don't fix what isn't broken.

lhversaw wrote:

messiaen77 wrote:So far I have successfully avoided contributing anything substantive to this discussion, but now I want to try something different.  Any time people in Christian circles speak out against animal cruelty, someone always makes the argument that yes we shouldn't treat animals inhumanely, but humans are more important than animals so all that energy should be put toward speaking out against things like abortion.  I'm surprised it has taken this long for it to come out (again) in this discussion.  I have two somewhat related thoughts on that

1.  How many anti-abortion songs are there?  How many artists use their platform to speak out against abortion?  It is being covered.  Are anti-abortion songs a requirement for all Christian artists or are people/bands allowed to be Christian AND never record an song about abortion?

2.  Related to that idea, do all Christians share the exact same calling?  The exact same mission?  The exact same ministry?  Yes, of course there is a core of sharing Christ with the world, but beyond that, do we all have to focus on the same things?  I think the answer is a resounding NO.  There's a lot of Kingdom work to be done here, and I believe God gives us different missions, different passions, so that the work gets spread around.  So what if Ted's calling, Ted's mission, is to speak out for the humane treatment of animals and to stand against their abuse?  What is that is what God is calling him to do?  Wouldn't it be sinful for him to NOT do that or to place another mission above that?  I guess what I'm saying is y'all gotta get off Ted's case for living out the mission he feels called to fulfill just because you don't agree with it.  If you don't like the lyric themes of the album, then don't buy the album.  But by the same token, just because you don't happen to agree with what he's doing doesn't mean he's wrong for doing it.

If that's HIS calling fine.  But calling his solo album a Tournqiuet album, when it isn't and was never intended to be by his own admission, that is deceiving his fans.  That is what is not right and what Ted is getting called out on.  He has used Touriquet for a WIDE VARIETY of topics and awesome Thrash metal  that is fine.  He has used his solo career to push for animal rights and ram PETA down peoples throats, again that is fine if that is what he wants his solo stuff to be.  Taking his solo SOUND and lyrics then slapping a Tourniquet logo on it and trying to deceive people into thinking it is a WHOLE TOURNIQUET BAND ALBUM IN THE VEIN OF TOURNIQUET BOTH SOUND WISE AND LYRIC WISE when it is not and is just like his solo stuff that is wrong.  The WHOLE DECEPTION of it is wrong.  It reeks of a desperate attempt to use a LEGENDARY band name for his personal gain in the absence of being able to successfully push his agenda in his solo career.  That ruins both the solo career and the band's career and makes fans of the band's career more leary about buying their LEGIT albums due to this stunt.  I say keep solo and band separate so there is no confusion and no deception and use the solo stuff the way he has and use the band the way he has and not ruin a good thing by trying to combine the two.  In other words don't fix what isn't broken.

Oh goodness..LET IT GO!!! 

Every thread you whine and moan about it being a solo project...

My goodness...we get it. You don't like it. You made your opinion quite well known..over and over and over and over and over.

Am I going to have to post the music video from Frozen?

lhversaw wrote:I do freely admit I have only heard 2  30 second samples on itunes BUT have also stated that after reading the lyrical topics I DON'T DESIRE TO HEAR MORE AND BE BEAT OVER THE HEAD BY ANOTHER PETA ALBUM. 

Wow. Two 30 second samples. And you have boldly claimed that this album is ROCK and not METAL.

I checked out iTunes, and if you have heard the Gabbie Rae song, you have heard either Let the Wild Just Be Wild or Cage 23.
Cage 23 sure is a mellow song. I'm not much into it musically as it's pure pop rock, nothing more nothing less.

Let the Wild Just Be Wild, however, is a HEAVY song! The sample on iTunes has probably the most mellow part in the whole album, so judging the song - or the whole album - based on that 30 second snippet, is not the wisest thing to do.


What comes to you not wanting to "be beat over the head by another PETA album", well, do you think that every single song in this album is accusing of you doing something bad? I mean, there is a song that addresses the problem of having DOG FIGHTS where dogs are put to fight each other until death for the sake of entertainment and money. I'm 99% positive that dealing with that hasn't got anything to do with you and your lifestyle. So what puts you off listening to that song? It's not a fast song but it's really heavy. Not "just rock" by any means.

You can listen it here for free:
http://tourniquet.bandcamp.com/track/the-slave-ring-featuring-mattie-montgomery-nick-villars-and-chris-poland
There is no danger for you to hear those songs that you find offensive for you. There is no danger for you to read the lyrics you find offensive for you. It's just that song and nothing else. That song does not say you should not eat animals. It even refers to dogs as "man's best friend" so it doesn't say you can't keep pets (which was an odd claim from you to begin with, as Ted himself has pet animals - and the song Cage 23 even encourages you to get a pet).

And perhaps for curiosity you'd like to hear the one song off the album that has thrash metal beat:
http://tourniquet.bandcamp.com/track/drowning-in-air-featuring-blake-suddath-nick-villars-and-tony-palacios
Now, maybe the lyrics in this song offend you, maybe not. It's about excessive mass fishing, and polluting the ocean. If that's a dealbreaker, then I'm sorry. If it's not, then check it out.

NoOneIsHere wrote:Am I going to have to post the music video from Frozen?

Yes PLEASE DO.

I go on and on and on for this reason so please try to understand.  

1. we were told one thing and then told another and deceived on it.
2. I immediately get attacked on the topic about this and that and oh by the way just go waste your money on something that lyrically you won't like and musicaly that supposedly doesn't sound just like that samples I heard did sound like.  
3. A flat out lie is told making claims about what animals do and don't do and anyone who watched animals in person, at the zoo, in their backyard or even on discover and other animal channels and show can see with their own eyes that they DO indeed do.
4. people keep taking the whole topic away from what is the whole point and making out like Ted is being attacked when it is the album and the way it was billed as that is what is being called out.

I have ears and I know music and when I hear a sample and it isn't what I like and I know that is sounds like something else by said artist that I also don't like I get confused and frustrated that it is suddenly called something else and that I get told that what I heard isn't what I heard.  I get told to go hear the whole thing and THEN decide.  Well if it weren't for the lyrical content I read maybe I would try to hear more.  But at this point why?  It boils down to 2 itunes samples and reading lyrics and that was all I needed to see this for what it is and I am quite frankly insulted that people try to convince me otherwise and even attack me over it and then more or less beg, or demand depending on how you look at it, to spend my money to hear the whole thing when I can already see based on what I have heard, read and been told that I would just be wasting my money.  It also pains me to see people get deceived by the artist and told one thing then get slipped a micky so to speak.

THAT is why I go on and on and on.


Now I ask for 2 things ONLY.  

1. PLEASE CLOSE ALL TOURNIQUET ARGUEMENT THREADS  IT IS A DEAD HORSE TED RUINING TOURNIQUET FOR HIS FANS AND THESE THREADS PROVE IT.

2.  TED YOU ARE RUINING TOURNIQUET FOR YOUR TOURNIQUET FANS DON'T MIX GREAT WITH BAD AND RUIN BOTH KEEP THEM SEPARATE OR THEY BOTH GO AWAY DON'T FIX WHAT ISN'T BROKEN.