A post from my blog

Candlemass wrote:Let's see what the lead actors themselves have to say about the film...

https://www.lifesitenews.com/static/even-the-co-stars-think-50-shades-of-grey-is-awful-rubbish-and-maybe-even-a.html

You're missing the point. I am not talking about the film itself. The film is a springboard about how we, as Jesus followers treat people.

How is anyone "treating people badly" by assessing this film to be rubbish? How is it that the RCC has "weird things about sex?" If you mean by that the polar opposite of this film and our culture at large, then I would agree, the RCC is counter culture.

Again, I don't understand about your espousing that were are not focusing on our neighbor and being the loudest mouthpiece in fb, could you cite some examples?

Candlemass wrote:How is anyone "treating people badly" by assessing this film to be rubbish? How is it that the RCC has "weird things about sex?" If you mean by that the polar opposite of this film and our culture at large, then I would agree, the RCC is counter culture.

Okay. I'll go one step at a time here.

I could care less about the film. In the first paragraph or so of my blog I talk about how believers need a target to hate. Then I talk about how we treat people who are invovled with that target.

Follow me so far?

The point is not the movie. I'm not going to see it and I'm sure it's not very well written. My point is that as believers, we need to consider how we treat people that do things we don't agree with. Most of the time we come off looking like jerks. In fact, I have two coworkers that have both told me they would go to church if there were no other Christians there. One of them said "I believe in God, and I think Jesus was who he said he was, but I can't go to church. There's too many Christians that are plain @$$holes and I don't want to be associated with them."

Good Lord...  I knew I should have never posted this damn link around here...

Candlemass wrote:Again, I don't understand about your espousing that were are not focusing on our neighbor and being the loudest mouthpiece in fb, could you cite some examples?

If you are on FB and haven't seen anything, I'm surprised... Maybe I'm just connected to the wrong people.

I've seen numerous articles, essays and blogposts by people who've never seen the movie talking about how horrible it is. I don't have access to my account at this moment, but I can try to look later and post specific examples.

The books have sold multiple millions, and the movie I imagine has/will be seen by about as many, ergo it has implications on our culture both in terms of it's climate and what influence this will have on it. Don't you think we would be amiss in our calling to be salt and light in our culture w/out discussing a film/book of such magnitude?

I think people use Christians as an excuse as to why they don't go to church. Ultimately they (the people that don't go) are responsible for their actions. We have to remember that the road is narrow. Few walk it.

The thing that really gets me, is the "christians" that stand out side with the sinners throwing rocks at the church.

I agree there are some valid reasons for folks being turned of by the behavior/action of some Christians, and we ourselves must answer for that, I just don't see how it ties to this film...

Candlemass wrote:The books have sold multiple millions, and the movie I imagine has/will be seen by about as many, ergo it has implications on our culture both in terms of it's climate and what influence this will have on it. Don't you think we would be amiss in our calling to be salt and light in our culture w/out discussing a film/book of such magnitude?

Are all my replies translated to Swahili today? My point isn't the film - my point is how we address it.

I mean, is that so difficult to understand? You're focusing on the film, not the point I'm making.

Should I just give up?

I don't get how saying that we think this movie is garbage is "hate".  Besides, you must be linked up to some really angry Christians because I have seen very little on social media about this.

Even the word "hate" has become ambiguous these days.  For the most part nowadays, people use it as a means of controlling someone with a differing opinion whether the hatred is real or perceived.

alldatndensum wrote:I don't get how saying that we think this movie is garbage is "hate".  Besides, you must be linked up to some really angry Christians because I have seen very little on social media about this.

Even the word "hate" has become ambiguous these days.  For the most part nowadays, people use it as a means of controlling someone with a differing opinion whether the hatred is real or perceived.

This!

Okay... I'm going to try to explain this one more time and then I'm done. I regret even posting this - I should have known better.

I do not give a crap about the movie. Think whatever the hell makes you happy about it. What I do give a crap about is how people in the church are treating those who are seeing the movie.

I understand people think the movie is garbage (even though they haven't seen it). I understand that some folks think people shouldn't see it, for a multitude of reasons.

But those people aren't the Holy Spirit. It isn't our place to condemn anyone, especially people we don't know. Can believers express their opinions? Of course. But shouldn't we be careful how and to whom we express them?

That's the crux of the matter. Talk with your small group or your friends at church. Talk with your neighbor or the guy at the desk next to you. Don't post hellfire-and-brimstone mini-sermons on social media.

And I'm not linked up to angry Christians - I'm linked up with some that believe in performance/works based faith, some who like to control other people and of course, some who are both those things.

I haven't seen anyone condemn those who have seen it, though I'm sure some have, but I don't think that is coming from the majority of Christians, on social media or otherwise...

I'll find some of the links I've seen on social media and post them here, you tell me if that qualifies as "judgmentalism" or "performance/works based faith"...

Don't bother... you're right, I'm wrong, have a nice day.

Gandalf the White wrote:Don't bother... you're right, I'm wrong, have a nice day.

Trying for some fruitful dialogue, but if reason and truth isn't what you're after...

You have no power here...Gandalf the Grey!

Candlemass wrote:

Gandalf the White wrote:Don't bother... you're right, I'm wrong, have a nice day.

Trying for some fruitful dialogue, but if reason and truth isn't what you're after...

I'm all for reasonable dialogue - I just think people understanding the point I'm making is where that starts and obviously I can't communicate well enough to make that happen.

To be honest, I'm really done with this right now.

I do understand your point, and I would agree w/it if I'd seen it on social media that way, but I have not...

Gandalf the White wrote:

d@v!d wrote:
 The problem with this film is that it celebrates horrible things. The Bible tells horrible tails but doesn't celebrate them.

Did you read the whole post?

And while it may not "celebrate" some of those things, we do celebrate the death of an innocent man after a brutal beating.

I think you missed the point I was making - instead of condemning folks we don't know on social media, why don't we focus on those in our lives and make a difference for Jesus there?

I read it rather rapidly. I agree with your main idea, but dissagree with your supporting arguments.

Thanks for sharing.

Gandalf the White wrote:Okay... I'm going to try to explain this one more time and then I'm done. I regret even posting this - I should have known better.

I do not give a crap about the movie. Think whatever the hell makes you happy about it. What I do give a crap about is how people in the church are treating those who are seeing the movie.

I understand people think the movie is garbage (even though they haven't seen it). I understand that some folks think people shouldn't see it, for a multitude of reasons.

But those people aren't the Holy Spirit. It isn't our place to condemn anyone, especially people we don't know. Can believers express their opinions? Of course. But shouldn't we be careful how and to whom we express them?

That's the crux of the matter. Talk with your small group or your friends at church. Talk with your neighbor or the guy at the desk next to you. Don't post hellfire-and-brimstone mini-sermons on social media.

And I'm not linked up to angry Christians - I'm linked up with some that believe in performance/works based faith, some who like to control other people and of course, some who are both those things.

You are also missing some major points.  Perhaps you have seen more negative outcry about this.  Many of us here have said nothing on social media.  My wife and I have decided to not see this nor read them as we don't feel that we want to bring this type of erotica into our lives and home--we have yet to tell someone else that they cannot view it.   I, for one, prefer to ignore it as too many times Christians talking about something more taboo just becomes a grass-roots advertising.  However, I won't be completely silent as sweeping it under the rug is, to me anyway, an endorsement by the church.  If I am asked my opinion on it, then I will share it as lovingly as I can. 

Not everyone that is vocal against 50 Shades is doing so in the manner that you speak of.  Candlemass has given some great examples.  We are not the Holy Spirit, but you have forgotten that the Lord does direct people to speak for Him at times.  While you made some decent points, you painted your blog with such a broad brush that it makes it appear that ALL Christians behave as you say.  To me, this comes off as harsh and as judgmental as you accuse everyone else--especially when you start throwing the "Pharisee" word around in the blog post.  We tend to shout that out nowadays as our Christianese way of saying we are shutting off every other opinion but our own.

Have you studied church trends in the Catholic or Southern Baptist churches to know what is caused people to leave?  Sure, we've dropped, but so are most denominations.  Some Southern Baptist churches are in crisis--others are THRIVING and growing.  I am sure how we've treated people has some to do with it.  I also feel that there are many other issues that have caused this but this blog and your responses here only highlight the one area as THE cause.  Again, without being someone from the inside studying the denominations as a whole, this still comes off as harsh and condemning.

Lastly, I do not celebrate the death of anyone.  I am GRATEFUL for a few.  I am grateful that Jesus died in my place.  The only celebrating I do is because He arose.  I celebrate His life because He still has it and has given it to me and to you as well.  I am grateful for the soldiers who fought to keep me free.I am grateful that my dad died when he had his second stroke so that he wouldn't have to suffer anymore.  I do not celebrate death.  Since Jesus conquered it, I don't think He much likes it either.  I believe that is one of the reasons He wanted to give us new life--so we could be free from the torture of death.  This body may shut down, but death is only the beginning for us.  In death, there is life.  I will celebrate life since that seems to be the crux of Jesus' message--to be able to live life and that more abundantly.

alldatndensum wrote:

Gandalf the White wrote:Okay... I'm going to try to explain this one more time and then I'm done. I regret even posting this - I should have known better.

I do not give a crap about the movie. Think whatever the hell makes you happy about it. What I do give a crap about is how people in the church are treating those who are seeing the movie.

I understand people think the movie is garbage (even though they haven't seen it). I understand that some folks think people shouldn't see it, for a multitude of reasons.

But those people aren't the Holy Spirit. It isn't our place to condemn anyone, especially people we don't know. Can believers express their opinions? Of course. But shouldn't we be careful how and to whom we express them?

That's the crux of the matter. Talk with your small group or your friends at church. Talk with your neighbor or the guy at the desk next to you. Don't post hellfire-and-brimstone mini-sermons on social media.

And I'm not linked up to angry Christians - I'm linked up with some that believe in performance/works based faith, some who like to control other people and of course, some who are both those things.

You are also missing some major points.  Perhaps you have seen more negative outcry about this.  Many of us here have said nothing on social media.  My wife and I have decided to not see this nor read them as we don't feel that we want to bring this type of erotica into our lives and home--we have yet to tell someone else that they cannot view it.   I, for one, prefer to ignore it as too many times Christians talking about something more taboo just becomes a grass-roots advertising.  However, I won't be completely silent as sweeping it under the rug is, to me anyway, an endorsement by the church.  If I am asked my opinion on it, then I will share it as lovingly as I can. 

Not everyone that is vocal against 50 Shades is doing so in the manner that you speak of.  Candlemass has given some great examples.  We are not the Holy Spirit, but you have forgotten that the Lord does direct people to speak for Him at times.  While you made some decent points, you painted your blog with such a broad brush that it makes it appear that ALL Christians behave as you say.  To me, this comes off as harsh and as judgmental as you accuse everyone else--especially when you start throwing the "Pharisee" word around in the blog post.  We tend to shout that out nowadays as our Christianese way of saying we are shutting off every other opinion but our own.

Have you studied church trends in the Catholic or Southern Baptist churches to know what is caused people to leave?  Sure, we've dropped, but so are most denominations.  Some Southern Baptist churches are in crisis--others are THRIVING and growing.  I am sure how we've treated people has some to do with it.  I also feel that there are many other issues that have caused this but this blog and your responses here only highlight the one area as THE cause.  Again, without being someone from the inside studying the denominations as a whole, this still comes off as harsh and condemning.

Lastly, I do not celebrate the death of anyone.  I am GRATEFUL for a few.  I am grateful that Jesus died in my place.  The only celebrating I do is because He arose.  I celebrate His life because He still has it and has given it to me and to you as well.  I am grateful for the soldiers who fought to keep me free.I am grateful that my dad died when he had his second stroke so that he wouldn't have to suffer anymore.  I do not celebrate death.  Since Jesus conquered it, I don't think He much likes it either.  I believe that is one of the reasons He wanted to give us new life--so we could be free from the torture of death.  This body may shut down, but death is only the beginning for us.  In death, there is life.  I will celebrate life since that seems to be the crux of Jesus' message--to be able to live life and that more abundantly.

alldat,





Thanks for your response. I'll address each point.



First, yes I have seen much negativity about this movie. Maybe it's the area I live in, or the people I know, but every post about FSoG has been a believer telling others how horrible the movie is and that they'll destroy their marriage/self/relationship with God/what-have-you.



1. If I painted in broad strokes, it was only to not point out specific people I know who would read the blog. Things like "I've seen people say..." is much safer than saying "My friend Carl said..." or "This pastor I know said..." This was not be harsh or judgmental, but rather to not point my finger so specifically at people I felt were handling the situation poorly. Three friends in particular have really condemned a group of people (myself included) to the point of calling us heretics for not boycotting the movie. In fairness, the only time I said everyone of a group did anything, it was near the beginning when I said Evangelicals need a target (which I still stand by).

In this paragraph, you also say that God uses people to speak for him. While I agree, this can be tricky. I felt like the Spirit was leading me to write what I did but the implication is that since you disagree with me, I'm wrong. Oddly, I addressed this in the post.



2. In fairness to both of us, I went back to see how and where I used the word Pharisee. The only time I used it was when I said "I've seen people say their defense of this statement is that Jesus corrected the Pharisees." I was not calling anyone that name, rather I was relaying a point that is illogical and faulty. In fact if you read the context, I was actually commenting on people trying to act like Jesus.



After being called a heretic, goat (as in sheep go to Heaven and goats go to Hell), and many other things (both here and in real life), I'm hesitant to label people something I don't feel I can back up with some specific behavior.



3. I grew up Southern Baptist so while I can't speak for others, I know why I left. I also know why so many people I grew up with left. And much of my family are SB so I know why my aunt and uncle, as well as my parents have thought about leaving. And yes of course, many denominations are losing people - I used SB and RCC because that's where you and Candlemass attend. If you were United Methodist, I would have referenced that. Further, yes I do study church trends (when I can) to see what's happening. It's interesting because despite some denominations losing folks, some are gaining.
It's intriguing to see the tide of opinion that rolls back and forth - especially when you compare the US to poorer nations.



4. I see your point about the resurrection but without that death, we have nothing to celebrate. I suppose I view it as "you can't have one and not the other" - because you can't



All that being said, the tone of the blog was not intended to be harsh but was to provoke thought and discussion. I'll admit I was overwhelmed for a few days between here and FB messages with people who had an issue with the blog for a multitude of reasons. I mostly got impatient because so many people focused on the movie itself and the fact I wasn't discouraging people to not see it that I felt they missed the point. I'll call it an exercise to be clearer in my writing from now on.

messiaen77 wrote:

d@v!d wrote:

But it isn't the same woman.

Um, umm, women>woman....?

d@v!d wrote:

messiaen77 wrote:

d@v!d wrote:

But it isn't the same woman.

Um, umm, women>woman....?

Yes, I know that and you know that, but apparently the graphic maker doesn't know that.