Hot takes.

seth wrote:

Dustofyears wrote:

seth wrote:

StevenCressler wrote:

seth wrote:

Black Rider wrote:Okay but they have melody. Just say you don't like it.

Very little, compared to other types of music. I get that it takes way more talent than the likes of hip hop, but imo it’s lacking in one of music’s two core components (rhythm and melody)

Okay, melody I can get. Not much of that. But rythm? Good death metal 100% has rythm. Just look at the pre-chorus to Morty's Journey to Reconciliation.

Probably could have phrased that better, but I meant it’s lacking only one of the two components (melody), but not lacking rhythm

Death metal is not actually lacking the component of melody. If someone plays a note and follows it with another note etc, no matter how slow or fast, technically that is still a melody. Even garbage like most of the variations of grind has melody, believe it or not. However, if they are staying on one note and there are no subsequent pedal tones (other notes over the drone of the one note) shifting under it, then there is no melody. So death metal does not lack that component b/c it is moving from note to note probably more so than most music.

Cannibal corpse, scrolls etc all have melody and harmony. Two notes or more played together is a harmony of one kind or another, be it ugly be it sweet. What pure death metal lacks for the most part is mellifluous (sweet sounding) melodies and harmonies. That's what good death metal it is all about, being Brutal and cold.

Sorry for writing a book but I just wanted to make that clear.

I mean, by that definition, a monkey randomly hitting notes on a piano is melody

Lolz Technically speaking, yes lolz.

CrimsonWarrior wrote:Bear in mind that Seth is also a "pastor" (in the ELCA, iirc). Meaning he is not just a heretic, but also a false teacher. I have no idea why his Christian band mates would still want anything to do with him.

Because their friendship goes pretty deep and they hope to see him change.

When Black Rider and I agree about something, it’s canon law.

When he and I disagree, I’m right and he’s wrong.

Pfffft.

deathisgain wrote:

CrimsonWarrior wrote:Bear in mind that Seth is also a "pastor" (in the ELCA, iirc). Meaning he is not just a heretic, but also a false teacher. I have no idea why his Christian band mates would still want anything to do with him.

Because their friendship goes pretty deep and they hope to see him change.

"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat." (1 Corinthians 5:11)

I think it goes without saying that false teachers fall into this category as well.

Oof, tough one. Won't be many Christian bands left.

seth wrote:I guess I can now add this guy to the list of famous Seth’s it’s kind of embarrassing to share a name with, along with Seth Rogan and Seth Meyers

Don't forget McFarlane.

Black Rider wrote:Pfffft.

No it's Pffffsssttfftt! - Pethead probably.

CrimsonWarrior wrote:

deathisgain wrote:

CrimsonWarrior wrote:Bear in mind that Seth is also a "pastor" (in the ELCA, iirc). Meaning he is not just a heretic, but also a false teacher. I have no idea why his Christian band mates would still want anything to do with him.

Because their friendship goes pretty deep and they hope to see him change.

"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat." (1 Corinthians 5:11)

I think it goes without saying that false teachers fall into this category as well.

If we are adding things, I'd like to add those that take verses out of context. Read the whole chapter to see what Paul is addressing in that verse.

Paul is chastising the Corinthians for their toleration of a professing Christian who was fornicating/committing adultery with his father's wife, because it's a gross sin and he ought rather to have been disciplined by the church, but instead his sin was tolerated. This man later repented after he was confronted, as we learn from 2 Corinthians, and Paul tells the church to accept him and affirm their love for him.

We learn from this that if a professing Christian sins in a scandalous, public, unrepentant way, and when confronted does not repent, we are to have nothing to do with him.

Now how is being a false teacher not worthy of such treatment? If I had a friend apostatize and become a "liberal Christian" and become a pastor in a liberal denomination, I would absolutely confront him about it. If he does not repent, that's the end right there. The New Testament has some strong words for false teachers, those who are trying to drag souls down to hell with them.

TL;DR: I fail to see how I am in any way taking that verse out of context.

‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:7‭-‬11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
[7] For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. [8] Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. [9] Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. [10] If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; [11] for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

Black Rider wrote:Oof, tough one. Won't be many Christian bands left.

Maybe that's a good thing.

I'd rather there be fewer genuine bands than boatloads of posers and fakes.

Stuff like this does sometimes make me prefer secular music.

I dunno how hot this take is, but:

Albums should almost never be over an hour long. 30–50 minutes is the sweet spot, depending on the genre.

As a fan of long songs, as long as they’re well written and don’t drag, hard disagree. A lot of my all time favorite albums are over an hour long

Long songs can be great. Long songs can be bad. I don’t think a song’s length necessarily speaks to its quality. One can also have long songs, but short albums—like Rush’s Hemispheres.

Long songs can certainly be bad if done poorly, but imo they have much more potential for greatness than short songs. For me, complexity and variation is one of the major aspects that can make a song great, and greater length simply allows more time to develop a complex, well written song. Usually when checking out new artists, I listen to their longest songs first, as imo it’s the best way to judge how skilled the artist is

To clarify, I like long songs fine I general. But I’d rather have less of them and a shorter album than a long album that meanders. Example would be Maiden’s Book of Snores Souls. It’s chock full of long songs and is a double album—and it’s coma-inducing. But Rush’s Hemispheres is 4 tracks, with 2 of them being epics, and it’s great. 

I’m not uniformly opposed to longer albums. My favorite metal album of all time is AJfA and it’s over an hour. But in general, that’s too long for me, especially with metal.

Yeah I will admit meandering/“noodling” can be a problem for some longer songs or albums. Dream Theater is a prime example. But when you get a band who can write well-written long songs that have direction and cohesion, like Theocracy (all their albums except Ghost Ship are > 1hr), then I think it works out really well

Sure. Matt Smith is a good enough songwriter to keep it engaging.

Now I’m just waiting for Kerrick to ban me for the Maiden comment…

CrimsonWarrior wrote:Paul is chastising the Corinthians for their toleration of a professing Christian who was fornicating/committing adultery with his father's wife, because it's a gross sin and he ought rather to have been disciplined by the church, but instead his sin was tolerated. This man later repented after he was confronted, as we learn from 2 Corinthians, and Paul tells the church to accept him and affirm their love for him.

We learn from this that if a professing Christian sins in a scandalous, public, unrepentant way, and when confronted does not repent, we are to have nothing to do with him.

Now how is being a false teacher not worthy of such treatment? If I had a friend apostatize and become a "liberal Christian" and become a pastor in a liberal denomination, I would absolutely confront him about it. If he does not repent, that's the end right there. The New Testament has some strong words for false teachers, those who are trying to drag souls down to hell with them.

TL;DR: I fail to see how I am in any way taking that verse out of context.

I'm not going to hash this out on the forums and derail this thread, but you're conflating a band with a church for one thing. It was tainting the churches image to the world, as well as letting other believers think that these things were acceptable. There was a lot more at stake than a band writing songs. Now 2 Cor. 6:14 might be a more appropriate verse, talking about not being yoked with unbelievers. But then we'd have to ask if Seth is an unbeliever or just in serious error. Either way, with Jason as the core lyricist, it doesn't worry me.

Pethead wrote:Now I’m just waiting for Kerrick to ban me for the Maiden comment…

Ha, well in this instance I actually don't disagree with you.  That album has a couple quite good songs and a loooooot of filler.

I was super stoked when it came out too.

seth wrote:Long songs can certainly be bad if done poorly, but imo they have much more potential for greatness than short songs. For me, complexity and variation is one of the major aspects that can make a song great, and greater length simply allows more time to develop a complex, well written song. Usually when checking out new artists, I listen to their longest songs first, as imo it’s the best way to judge how skilled the artist is

I think it just depends on if the song justifies the length. The way I describe how much I long my songs will be is how much I have to say on the song's theme and message.