Smoking cannabis a sin? Can Christians smoke weed?

So I have a question. What do Christians here think about marijuana? Is it sinful to smoke it? Is it ever ok(for Christians or non)to smoke it? On a related note, regardless of your answer on that, do you believe it should be legal or illegal?

And also want to reccomend an amusing video on YouTube(which, unfortunately, I'm not able to get and cut/paste the link directly, sorry)...*A Rabbi, a Priest, and an atheist smoke weed together/strange buds/cut* on the channel *Cut*. Real, not a cartoon or something fake. A real Rabbi, priest, and black gay conservative atheist smoking weed together. Go to YouTube, look it up, check it out/watch and enjoy the lols.(and you may even find the kind interactions between them inspiring and a positive about weed smoking)

Anyways. I find it curious that so many Christians(and jews and other revealed religionists) are so against weed smoking and even against legalization. I have known so many Christians that are so dead set against it, yet so many of them either smoke tobacco/cigs and/or drink alchohol(and get drunk or at least a bit tipsy)...some smoke cigs half pack/pack a day, but have this self righteous pseudo-moral bias about Weed at the same time, and they justify it with appealing to their faith(even though their holy book isn't clearly against it or clear on the issue). And if they don't smoke tobacco or drink alch5...they don't have an issue against these in and of themselves or Christian's that do so....or at least not nearly as much if an issue as they do about weed(and they ignorantly and absurdely lump it in with dooing hard hallunagenics or hard drugs).
Some, on the other hand, aren't for marijuana use but do realize it's not like dooing hard drugs or strong hallucinogenics but still is worse than smoking tobacco/cigs and/or drinking alchohol. Even though it is allmost impossible to overdose on weed(yeah some people get paranoid on too much of it...most don't...at least not extremely so. It is impossible to die from it...worst that will happen in this regard...get too high ...pass out in sleep...wake up fine). But alchohol kills hundreds of thousands or possibly even millions annually through liver disease, through killing brain cells on massive level if not drank in serious moderation, drunk driving and other stupid and dangerous stuff connected to it, it causes soooooo much family violence/etc..
Tobacco kills millions through breathing issues, through having various forms of serious and deadly cancer connected to it(and second hand smoke can cause this stuff to, but second hand weed smoke...not so much) and having to have holes developed or made in throat and talk via wheezing machines, etc etc.

I find it odd that so many Christians and revealed religionists have it so hard against marijuana smoking/getting high ...in itself, yet have no problem with or much less of a problem with others...even other Christians and revealed religionists using tobacco/cigs and/or alchohol.
They often cited a couple taken out of context scriptures written by Paul about being sober and if sound mind(meanwhile Yeshua turned water into wine and drank alchohol...with others as well, you can't tell me he and they didn't get at least a little drunk or tipsy on occasion from this).

I know some Christians/revealed religionists like this will say its sinful in itself but only a minor one and will try not to judge nonchristian who do it to harshly ...some(not all) will even say they are ok with legalization or at least decriminalization...though virtually will lend their voice to this being done(my question to them and especially to the ones who are dead set against legalization or even against its use period, yet don't have so much problem with tobacco/cigs and alchohol and beer and whiskey and wine being legal or even with Christians who use these...and may even do so themselves with little or zero moral regret about it while having these double standards about marijuana). Why?
And why can't Christians/revealed religionists use it and get at least a little high(alot of Christian's that do use it...attain that calming effect and peace to even better commune in prayer with their deity) but it's ok or at least not ad sinful or forbidden to smoke tobacco/cigs or drink alcoholic beverages? Why do so many Christians so harshly judge and guilt their brethren who smoke cannabis(or consume edibles, whichever they prefer) but not so much so with their brethren who smoke(even allt of) tobacco/cigs or drink some alchohol(even occasionally in a social setting a fair bit, enjoy themselves with it and get if not full on drunk...though they might, then at least notably tipsy)?
What gives?

Why do so many Christians/revealed religionists have this extra-biblical, arbitrary bias against or about cannabis?

Thoughts?

Contrarian Deist wrote:(meanwhile Yeshua turned water into wine and drank alchohol...with others as well, you can't tell me he and they didn't get at least a little drunk or tipsy on occasion from this)

Actually, I can tell you this.

Jesus is God. God does not and indeed cannot sin. Drunkenness is sin. Therefore, Jesus never was and never will be drunk. Did He drink alcohol? Yes, we have biblical record of that. But He did not sin.

Verses from Paul about being sober-minded are not taken out of context. They are commands for how to live in a godly manner.

I, like many others on this forum, affirm the inerrancy/infallibility of the Bible. This means that it is without contradictions and without error, and it has been providentially preserved and kept pure in all ages. Paul and Jesus are not opposed to each other. The New Testament is not opposed to the Old Testament. You are not a Christian, and you do not believe this about the Bible. I am not accusing you; I am merely drawing that conclusion from the various things which you have said on this forum. You need to stop blaspheming. If you want to know why we believe something which pertains to Christianity at all, it's because it's a conclusion drawn from Scripture. Some of us may vary in our views a little bit (on topics like medical marijuana, etc.), which is fine, but ultimately for all Christians the Bible is the source of doctrine and truth. Yet you essentially keep asking questions like "other than your argument from the Bible, which is out-of-context/misguided/that passage doesn't really matter/etc., why are you so against or for X?". There's no point in pre-dismissing our argument and hoping for a different answer.

Well answered, CW.

CrimsonWarrior wrote:

Contrarian Deist wrote:(meanwhile Yeshua turned water into wine and drank alchohol...with others as well, you can't tell me he and they didn't get at least a little drunk or tipsy on occasion from this)

Actually, I can tell you this.

Jesus is God. God does not and indeed cannot sin. Drunkenness is sin. Therefore, Jesus never was and never will be drunk. Did He drink alcohol? Yes, we have biblical record of that. But He did not sin.

Verses from Paul about being sober-minded are not taken out of context. They are commands for how to live in a godly manner.

I, like many others on this forum, affirm the inerrancy/infallibility of the Bible. This means that it is without contradictions and without error, and it has been providentially preserved and kept pure in all ages. Paul and Jesus are not opposed to each other. The New Testament is not opposed to the Old Testament. You are not a Christian, and you do not believe this about the Bible. I am not accusing you; I am merely drawing that conclusion from the various things which you have said on this forum. You need to stop blaspheming. If you want to know why we believe something which pertains to Christianity at all, it's because it's a conclusion drawn from Scripture. Some of us may vary in our views a little bit (on topics like medical marijuana, etc.), which is fine, but ultimately for all Christians the Bible is the source of doctrine and truth. Yet you essentially keep asking questions like "other than your argument from the Bible, which is out-of-context/misguided/that passage doesn't really matter/etc., why are you so against or for X?". There's no point in pre-dismissing our argument and hoping for a different answer.

Did I say God sins?
You're putting words in my mouth.

You claim Yeshua never got drunk. Fair enough, maybe he didn't, but...maybe he did. Like I said, the gospels indicate that Yeshua drank wine/alchohol pretty regularly, as did his apostles and disciples. He is claimed to have turned water into wine and served it to people. Wine has alchohol in it. If he did this and if he served wine to hundreds if not thousands, surely some of them got at least a bit tipsy(different people have different degrees of tolerance to alchohol) if not a bit drunk, if being tipsy or drunk was in itself a sin, surely Yeshua if being god in flesh(or if even just being intelligent as I'm sure he was regardless) he knew some of his apostles and disciples and the others he/they served wine to would have lesser tolerance levels and get more easily tipsy or drunk from it, yet he/they did it anyways. Why? Could it be he didn't think it *sinful* to get a little tipsy and be merry from it?
Else he'd not have done so now would he have?
If he didn't think it sinful, why then would he seem it *sinful* to get a little high from cannabis? Especially if like wine/alchohol it makes one cheery/merry or calm....even enough so so they can medidate more clearly and better to commune with god?
These are not *blasphemous* questions to ask or things to ponder and discuss and consider...even within the context of the Christian faith/religion. Yeshua did, said, entertained and considered things that the religious puritans of his time/culture(pharisees/seducees) called blasphemous...they even accused him of blasphemy because of such things. Could you possibly be making the same errors of self righteous or puritanical judgement as thet did?
As Christian metalheads, do you not remember that in the early years of metal music the religious right(and lefts) puritans persecution and silencing of it as *blasphemous*...many of them also did the same to your Christian metal.
Think of the implications of this.

Yes, the verses from Paul about being sober minded are taken out of context by some phariseeacal puritans in the church institution to condemn certain things of their own arbitrary biases...extra biblically. As metalheads I'm sure you sometimes headbang or mosh or listen to loud musuc5...that can be disorienting...or make you of less sober-mind(like being a ,little tipsy from alchohol or a little high from a bit of cannabis, etc do)...yet you justify your bias for this while condemning your bias against these other things...arbitrarily and claim absolutely that your arbitrary biases are absolutely gospel truth...sins or nonsins based on arbitrary biases.
Now as to that verse by Paul, what exactly is the context he was writing that in in his personal letters to churches he founded? Think of this.

As Christian metalheads who years ago felt the sting of the arbitrary puritanical biases of more socially conservative Christians persecuting your artform and music as blasphemy and sinful in itself. Do you really want to repeat their errors of hypocrisy and prejudgement? Should not Christian metalheads of all Christians...know better than this? Have learned from those puritanical pharisees mistakes?

Love life in a *godly manner*?
And how is this relevant to drinking alchohol and getting a little tipsy/inebriated or smoking a little marijuana and getting a little high? Does a Christian or other godly person stop being so just because they're a little inebriated(what about with chocolate and sugar and caffeine...which also affect the body, nervous system, brain when used, should Christians therefore condemn and reject the use of these things?, or what about with pharmaceutical drugs which have many similar or even stronger, worse, or more dangerous effects? Should Christians call anyone using them sinful blasphemers and condemn the use of them outright and silence any discussion of the topic and guilt other Christians or non for bringing the topic up?)
Does a Christian's or anyones fundamental moral character drastically change just because of being slightly inebriated or slightly high or slightly wound up on sugar or caffeine(or on alchohol or cannabis, or pharmaceutical meds/drugs)? What does any of that have to do with a individuals inner faith and their moral center or character?

In the discussion at hand I have not challenged the fundamentals of your faith/religion in itself. Because while I may have a different opinion on those fundamentals, those opinions are nor relevant to the topic at hand.
If ii was still a Christian, I could and would still make the same arguments I'm making here about this particular topic.

You didn't really answer to most of my questions or points on the topic, you ignored most of them and derailed the contexr of the topic discussion at hand here(which is fine, I do the same sometimes, so does everbody). But we're not really discussing here those fundamental doctrines, we're discussing other things and interpretations of passages that are not fundamental doctrines of the faith...but other issues. You're just evading answering the points of the topic at hand so you can point the finger and accuse without actually engaging in discussion of the topic at hand

How is this *blaspheming*? If I were still Christian I could and would make similar arguments. I've seen and heard plenty of Christian's...even of the born again evangelical variety ask similar questions of their brethren and try to open up discussions with them on these and similar matters...and get silenced, shut down, and guilted for even asking such questions...questions that aren't even pertinent to the fundamental doctrine beliefs of the religion itself, just questions and discussions on non fundamental matters.
As Christian metalheads you should recall that many Christians reacted in the same way to metal decades ago(during the satanic panic)...even towards Christian metal/heads(some still do). Think about that while you point the finger and accuse reasonable questions for dialogue of *blasphemy*(and think of the pharisees and saducees who subjected Yeshua and his apostles/disciples to similar treatment and accusations and avoidance of discussion o certain topics)

I'm not debating the fundamental doctrines of your religion un this thread, but you seem to want to, fair enough, we can have those debates if you like in the theology thread section of this site.
As for here and now...let's discuss the topic at hand rationally.

C.D.

BaleMaster wrote:Well answered, CW.

How so?
He didn't even really provide any relevant answers to the topic at hand, just evaded it completely and pointed the finger at me accusing me of *blasphemy* merely for bringing the topic up and asking questions about matters that are not even related to fundamental doctrines of the religion.
Reread his response and read my response to his response and THINK.

Regards
C.D.

Nice projection, pot-stirrer (pun intended).  You commit a litany of logical fallacies, including straw men, appeals to emotion, arguments from outrage, and enough non sequiturs to choke a bull moose.  

Since you've slithered onto this forum, you have been picking fights with established board members and proselytizing your particular strain of Deistic claptrap.  Kerrick wisely advised you to slow your roll and dial back the contentiousness.  You have foolishly spurned his directives and succeeded only in being an annoying troll.

For purposes of the topic discussion I'm attempting to come at it from a Christian mindset(and my own former Christian beliefs), while I'm no longer Christian, I understand the Christian faith well and the mindset and varied interpretations of various subsects of the religion.
I'm trying to approach it ...AS IF I was(still) a Christian. In fact in many of the discussions I've had on these forums I've tried to do the same.
Like Paul said, to try to be different things to different people...to relate in order to well...relate and to gain insights from them and hopefully them from me. Everything to everyone.
I'm taking a page from Paul on this actually(even though I disagree with Paul on a number of issues, his methodology though as such...he had something in it)

I've tried my best to not offend your fundamental religious beliefs as *Christians* or to be overly preachy with my own Deism(PanDeism)...though I've shared my beliefs a couple of times in a couple of threads elsewhere.
But I'm trying to not *preach* them, share, engage, discuss..yes.
To make others think, and in so dooing they will hopefully make me think. You know...relating to each other as fellow human beings.
How's this bad or nefarious or disengenuous or *blasphemous*?

BaleMaster wrote:Nice projection, pot-stirrer (pun intended).  You commit a litany of logical fallacies, including straw men, appeals to emotion, arguments from outrage, and enough non sequiturs to choke a bull moose.  

Since you've slithered onto this forum, you have been picking fights with established board members and proselytizing your particular strain of Deistic claptrap.  Kerrick wisely advised you to slow your roll and dial back the contentiousness.  You have foolishly spurned his directives and succeeded only in being an annoying troll.

Youve got my intentions and my character all wrong dude.
I'm trying to be polite and respectful here. But all you can do is avoid topic at hand and falsely accuse me and insult my moral character and intentions as if I'm a horrible monster demon willfully attacking and persecuting you and your faith with hyperbole terms/accusations like *slither* and accusing me of motivations that arent actually motivations, which...I'm not dooing.
What else can I say. You're pegging me as some sort of dishonest evil devil figure when I'm not. Sure, I'm not a saint either(few people are, if any) but I'm not this evil devil figure strawman you're accusing me of being either.


Read my last response please, thank you.

Buh bye.

Think for a moment about this Bale(others).
Do you really think you will or can win anyone over to your faith and your christ by these methods? Or perhaps you're methods and attitudes...are what scare many people away from it?
You are your own counter productive phariseeacal worst enemies to your own faith when you treat people like that.
You know I'm right.

Think also about this.
In the bible the god if the bible often used nonbelievers to chasten, reprove, and correct his peoples hypocritical or corrupt attitudes and behaviours.
How do you know that is not what's occurring here as well?
Think about those implications...directly from your own holy book.

I'll admit, I AM a *pot stirrer* by nature(so was Yeshua btw, so I guess I'm in good company).
Being a *pot stirrer* is not neccesarily a negative thing, the pot stirrer is not neccaserily a bad person or has neccaserily malevolent intentions by being a pot stirrer(in fact the pot stirrer is often motivated by a sense of sound moral principles and a sense of empathy and humanity...but also truth or honesty. Have I really been anything other than honest in my discussions here? Honest about who/what I am, what my beliefs and values are? No I've been nothing less but honest from the get go. But you peg me as some evil devil for it. Why? Because I'm not a Christian? Well news flash, you are Christian metalheads...and if you treat nonchristian metalheads this way...how do you expect to witness to them the example of Christ or to reach them in your metal ministry ? Maybe this attitude is why so few nonchristian metalheads have been converted over the years by Christian metal and Christian metalheads...and Christian metal has become little more than a isolated enclave subculture then actual relational ministry reaching nonchristian metalheads for Christ. Judged or marginalized by nonchristian metalheads and Christian nonmetalheads alike, and why only a few Christian metal bands have made it past 2 or 3 albums tops with so few copies made/available...only few years after they're made them so costly money wise/hard to get, which is unfortunate because so many are actually very good musically).
Christian metal was supposed to be the antidote to phariseeacal puritanical prejudgemental mainstream christianity...which at first deemed Christian metal(as nonchristian metal) as being deceived, blasphemous of the devil.
You are making the same mistakes they made and make, and thus being counter productive to your own cause.
Congrats.

Oh and Bale your egoistic sarcasm and mean spirited insulting accusatory language is pretty unbecoming of one claiming to be a follower of Yeshua or *CHRISTian*(but it is of a nature that is christIAN).

You don't even understand your own messiah or his faith and holy book. How can you expect others to or to be a witness for him/it and reach others for him/it?

Typical.
I joined this forum hoping to prove to myself(and share with others what I experience from..prove to them) that the negative stereotypes I previously held(and that so many others have) about modern evangelical/born against Christians was incorrect, that they in the majority...and especially Christian metalheads were more christlike and better than that, not hypocritical, prejudgemental, puritanical, mean spirited pharisees.
And you've squashed those Hope's.
You may have even by some miracle...and by your example perhaps swayed me to or closer to your faith/religion and your Christ(but I'm not blaming your christ here, just you so-called *Christians* because as Ghandi said * I like your christ, I do not like your Christians, your Christians are so unlike your christ* and as Crowley said *I never really hated god or christ, just the god and christ of the people i hated*...and in fact as of the last several years i haven't even hated those Christians...in fact I've spent an extreme amount of energy and time defending them and their religion from demonization by elements of mainstream pop culture. I'm starting to regret that, maybe they're right about you evangelical/fundamentalist Christians afterall. I don't want to think that...truly I don't...but you and the satanic panic fueled right wing evangelical Christians of some elements of the Christian right and evangelical MAGAites...which pains me to say as a MAGAite myself ...while not so bad in the last 15-20 years are again devolving back to the 80s/90s satanic panic era and middle age witch hunt eras institutional Christians/Christianity again, no better ans no worse than the p.c. sjw progressivist neomarxist nonchristian/and Christian far left. Sad).
Will either side...ever learn?

Hypocrisy and witch hunts and puritanical authoritarian attitudes and methods and outcomes from both sides.
And I(and the few other people like me) am(are) stuck in the middle looking at this constant repeating of the same old mistakes from both sides and losing hope, while trying to bridge both sides together to a brighter future...and you and they are both smashing that bridge to bits.
🤯🥺

Oh and Bale your egoistic sarcasm and mean spirited insulting accusatory language is pretty unbecoming of one claiming to be a follower of Yeshua or *CHRISTian*(but it is of a nature that is christIAN).

You don't even understand your own messiah or his faith and holy book. How can you expect others to or to be a witness for him/it and reach others for him/it?

Typical.
I joined this forum hoping to prove to myself(and share with others what I experience from..prove to them) that the negative stereotypes I previously held(and that so many others have) about modern evangelical/born against Christians was incorrect, that they in the majority...and especially Christian metalheads were more christlike and better than that, not hypocritical, prejudgemental, puritanical, mean spirited pharisees.
And you've squashed those Hope's.
You may have even by some miracle...and by your example perhaps swayed me to or closer to your faith/religion and your Christ(but I'm not blaming your christ here, just you so-called *Christians* because as Ghandi said * I like your christ, I do not like your Christians, your Christians are so unlike your christ* and as Crowley said *I never really hated god or christ, just the god and christ of the people i hated*...and in fact as of the last several years i haven't even hated those Christians...in fact I've spent an extreme amount of energy and time defending them and their religion from demonization by elements of mainstream pop culture. I'm starting to regret that, maybe they're right about you evangelical/fundamentalist Christians afterall. I don't want to think that...truly I don't...but you and the satanic panic fueled right wing evangelical Christians of some elements of the Christian right and evangelical MAGAites...which pains me to say as a MAGAite myself ...while not so bad in the last 15-20 years are again devolving back to the 80s/90s satanic panic era and middle age witch hunt eras institutional Christians/Christianity again, no better ans no worse than the p.c. sjw progressivist neomarxist nonchristian/and Christian far left. Sad).
Will either side...ever learn?

Hypocrisy and witch hunts and puritanical authoritarian attitudes and methods and outcomes from both sides.
And I(and the few other people like me) am(are) stuck in the middle looking at this constant repeating of the same old mistakes from both sides and losing hope, while trying to bridge both sides together to a brighter future...and you and they are both smashing that bridge to bits.
🤯🥺

Contrarian Deist... cool it please.

Crimson Warrior indeed gave you a respectful, succinct, and thorough reply with reasoning to back up his claims.  He wasn't attacking your person by accusing you of blaspheming; it's as simple as you making claim that Jesus [may have] sinned.  That's blasphemy.  Notice that you're making the biggest deal out of that than anyone here...

You accuse us all of hypocrisy, but perhaps pause for a moment and see your own plank before you make further attacks on our specks.  You're extremely quick to accuse, belittle, and criticize - but the second you're given even a fraction of your own medicine, you immediately shift to the tactics BaleMaster mentioned above.  So again, cool it.  You want to have mature conversations about sensitive topics?  Lead by example.  But right now, you're stooping far lower than anyone else here and if that doesn't change, I will ban you permanently.  This is your warning.  When you came back from your "vacation," you were doing pretty well IMO.  Then you reverted right back to your trollish tendencies in this thread (and others...).  Stop that immediately and treat others with respect.

In case it's any consolation, I'm the most active and also most lenient of the mods here.  I guarantee that had one of the other mods acted first, it would've been a permanent ban from the get-go and not just a week.  You're right on the edge... if you want to stay around here, you need to put more effort in being respectful.

On another note, I'm certain you set multiple CMR records for most posts in the shortest amount of time, most text in the shortest amount of time, and most replies to your own comments.  So there's that! 

Kerrick wrote:Contrarian Deist... cool it please.

Crimson Warrior indeed gave you a respectful, succinct, and thorough reply with reasoning to back up his claims.  He wasn't attacking your person by accusing you of blaspheming; it's as simple as you making claim that Jesus [may have] sinned.  That's blasphemy.  Notice that you're making the biggest deal out of that than anyone here...

You accuse us all of hypocrisy, but perhaps pause for a moment and see your own plank before you make further attacks on our specks.  You're extremely quick to accuse, belittle, and criticize - but the second you're given even a fraction of your own medicine, you immediately shift to the tactics BaleMaster mentioned above.  So again, cool it.  You want to have mature conversations about sensitive topics?  Lead by example.  But right now, you're stooping far lower than anyone else here and if that doesn't change, I will ban you permanently.  This is your warning.  When you came back from your "vacation," you were doing pretty well IMO.  Then you reverted right back to your trollish tendencies in this thread (and others...).  Stop that immediately and treat others with respect.

In case it's any consolation, I'm the most active and also most lenient of the mods here.  I guarantee that had one of the other mods acted first, it would've been a permanent ban from the get-go and not just a week.  You're right on the edge... if you want to stay around here, you need to put more effort in being respectful.

On another note, I'm certain you set multiple CMR records for most posts in the shortest amount of time, most text in the shortest amount of time, and most replies to your own comments.  So there's that! 

Um...I never claimed Yeshua(why do you modern Christians keep calling him Jesus, that wasn't his name, his name was Yeshua or Jehoshua/Joshua, the claim that *well it's the english translation*. First of all, what makes english speaking humans/Christians think they have this global monopoly on the man and his teachings that they can impose their english translation of his jewish name on the whole world. Secondly, when you go another culture or country with a different language does anyone translate your name to their language or visa versa? No, your or a persons name remains the same in every culture/country/language. And also treating *christ*as if it's his last name, saying stuff like *if you say CHRIST in a pejorative way or in anger in a phrase or something you're taking his name in vain. NO, one is not...because it WASN'T/ISN'T his NAME, it's a title. It's like if I ...my name is Bill and if I were a say a fireman and someone said fireman used in a angry phrase is taking my name in vain when it's a job descriptor/title, same with *christ*). Modern Christians of the protestant and catholic variety are so clueless about their own founder and their own religion and then claim a monopoly on him and it and accuse others and presume to preach at the world about or of the religion and the man which they themselves are so clueless about.

Anyways, I never said Yeshua sinned. I pointed out that the hypocritical religious pharisees of his time/culture accused him of sinning, of blasphemy, heresy, and of being of the devil. And compared that to you guys accusing me or others(or other Christians of other Christian sects even) of heresy, blasphemy, sin, etc. And the irony and hypocrisy of this. That's all. And you willfully have missed my point, because you never really read or thought about or considered it to begin with.

Let's get something straight here.
I joined this forum and started posting in a polite, relational, open minded, kind, manner, with sincerity of intent. And from the get go(being respectful of christianity and of Christian's, while politely disagreeing on some points and politely a few times...without going into to much preachy detail about my own personal belief)...several of you within a few days started falsely accusing me of trolling, of being disengenuous, coming I'm *fists swinging *(which as I said before your members were throwing fists at each other before inever came in, and at the time this accusation was made at me.,,tgecworst I could be accused of is friendly slapping the air, while you all threw punches at me),blasphemy, and then arbitrarily banned me for a week, since the unbanning I've been subjected to the same abuse and accusations over and over(as well as new ones, accused of *slithering* in...wht don't you just come our and say it instead of veiling it...*C.D. you're a snake in eden literal devil*, that would be more honest. Even though it's not true)...and I've been insulted, had my character assassinated, been falsely accused, had words put in my mouth by people who clearly didn't actually read anything I've actually said , threatened with censorship and banning over nothing(or over minor misunderstandings), and other things.
Basically projection...accusing me of that which you yourselves are guilty

Meanwhile I've bent over backwards, putting up with the abuse, and been nothing but patient and fair and open minded, and kind(until my last few posts because I'm just suck of it. I figure if this is how you all want to see me and accuse me of, smurf it! Fine, I'll just be what you've all falsely accused me of).
And you have acted tribalistic towards the fair minded nonchristian....simply because he isn't a Christian.

And you have it backwards. I mat have a speck in my own eye(who doesn't?)...but its you who have the PLANKS in yours.
You have acted like pharisees and terrible examples/witnesses for your Christ and your religion.
You have cast nothing but derision my way from the get go, and I have tried my best to take it in stride until the last couple days.

Like I said, if you want to draw nonchristian into your Faith's fold and to your christ, your phariseeacal attitudes and methods and way if treating...each other(and Christians of other Christian sect) let alone outsiders/nonchristians is a terrible way to do it, all you are doing is scaring people away rather than drawing them to. You are counter productively self defeating to your own religions cause, your own worst enemies.

As for me, go ahead ban me for calling this hypocrisy and abuse out. I don't care.
I've defended you evangelical Christians for years and received nothing but abuse and seeing nothing but hypocrisy..,.yet I still defended you all and your religion and your christ from unfair demonizing and negative stereotypes from pop culture and the nonchristian world. But now I realize...maybe they were/are right about that. Frankly you right wing(politisize your religion and your christ)evangelical christIANS(whom think america was founded as, is, or should beva *Christian nation*...ie. theocracy p)are no different from the fundamentalist dogmatic nu-atheists and/or globalist SJW p.c. progressivists and neomarxists.
Same crap, different pile.
Two sides of the same coin.
Hypocrisy, repressiveness, totalitarian dreams, deluded accusing others or the other sides of that which you(or they) are guilty yourselves(themselves)....and sadly it seems neither you or they wioo ever learn.
If you're banning me, so be it, then...
Good bye, have a nice life

C,D.

* I like your christ, I don't like your Christians, your Christians are so unlike your christ*-Ghandi.

*I never really hated God nor christ, but the god and christ of the people I hated*-Aleister Crowley
( I might alter that myself to *but the God and christ of the people who hated me/others/etc first...in the name of god and/or christ....showing they really have nothing to do with god or christ..,only their man made religions and their arrogant hypocritical phariseeism..,and their willful blindness to it)

Later gators

Oh, and as I said before and it bares repeating. This is also why your delusion that your Christian metal(much of it which is musically great and on that merit deserves more recognition and respect as metal music) will ever REACH nonchristian metalheads for your religion and your christ is sad. Because if this is the tact you take with nonchristians....it will remain nothing more than a self or mutually masturbating isolated, marginalized(by nonchristian metalheads and Christian nonmetalheads alike, and be treated like a joke by both) insular, self segregated, little subculture with no reach and most of its bands will continue to fade into obscurity after 1 or 2 or maybe 3 albums.reachinf not much more then the insular minor numbers of Christian metalheads, preaching to the choir and getting nowhere. Which is unfortunate ,as much of it deserves to be heard.
But you will continue to be your own worst self-defeating and counter productive enemies. And you're to self righteous, hypocritical, and blind to realize this.
Sad really

Oh and no Crimson Warrior didn't actually answer or address any of the arguments or points I made, was it respectful? Sure. I never said it wasn't. But he never really gave an actual answer to or arguments to the topic, he just beat around the bush and went off topic talking about being a Christian means to try and avoid sin,etc. Never really addressed any of the points made by me about the bible not really being absolutely clear on the issue or really addressing the issue and how/why sure within a Christian perspective one could make an argument against it, but also within that same Christian and biblical perspective one could equally make a valid argument FOR it. And how really it is a matter of individual choice and individual taste rather than an issue of *sin* or not sin....biblically and for the individual Christian to decide and that no Christian can really condemn the others for their choice to use or not use.
And he never actually addressed any of those points, just made universal declaration ps of condemnation against it and preached z(as uf his interpretation of scriptures is the only valid one on the issue or related issuesand never admitted any nuance to the issue.
So, while the answer was succinct and respectfully put forth it never really addressed the issue much and was just a bear around the bush, avoiding and evading a thought out answer to the topic at hand.

Noe did he or you or anyone answer the comparisons or points I made regarding alchohol use(or tobacco)...and the unequal toleration of it in the Christian community and unequal condemnation of cannabis within or from the Christian community(the evangelical Christians community especially)..and the hypocrisy or double standards in that.
Or any of the points I made.
Also about drunkenness and that Yeshua drank wine/alchohol and encouraged it(turning water into it and served it to large crowds...some of those people probably having lower tolerance to it and getting at least a little tipsy if nor drunk, but he did it anyhow, suggesting he didn't think it to be sinful in and of itself)...and the comparison to marijuana use and getting at least a little high from it.
Or any other points or arguments I brought up. He, nor you, nor anyone has actually answered any of this. Just vague preachings that evade actual answers.

Toodles

Just keep proving my points here and elsewhere in the sites threads. So thank you for that

I have used marijuana almost daily since about January 2016.  I started it per the recommendation of my surgeon and oncologist then, and to this day, it offers unparalleled relief for the discomfort and nausea I have.  (which will probably be just how it is for me the rest of my life, since I don't have all my insides anymore)

I highly advocate for sobriety, and not just because I've worked as a drug and alcohol counselor before.  I'm also a recovering alcoholic and I haven't had a drink since March 20th 2007.  For years I didn't think sobriety and smoking weed could correspond to each other AT ALL, until pain and discomfort put my back against a wall in 2016, and my "drugs r bad" objection against pot at that time, got tossed. It was my last resort for pain relief and I found it extremely ironic that it alleviated all my symptoms and just left me feeling like I drank a strong coffee.

The bible repeatedly outlines the sin of drunkedness, and I absolutely believe this encompasses all intoxication in general.  (alcohol is a drug after all so its poTAYto poTAHto to get "high" from a liquid, smoke, or powder)

Very few Christians think that to have a drink, means invoking drunkenness.  This is practically the opposite of what Christians think about weed, which is to smoke weed at all, is to get high, as if there's no other way around it.  Well, no offense to anyone, that is the uneducated opinion of someone who's 1) never used weed 2) only abused weed before.  I can't really fault someone for thinking that, as I thought that myself until I reached the crossroad I mentioned, but I can absolutely assure anyone now, marijuana can used without getting ripped stoned, baked, etc. from it.

From a scriptural standpoint, I'd like to reference this.

(NLT) 1 Timothy 5:23 - "Don’t drink only water. You ought to drink a little wine for the sake of your stomach because you are sick so often."

Alcohol consumption itself at all isn't a sin.  I doubt Paul would be recommending this to Timothy if that were the case...  While alcohol isn't medicine in today's field, the principle still stands.  A little substance for relief is fine.   Over indulgence to get blasted, isn't.  I'm confident in saying this is applicable to any substance with a potential for abuse.

If I told you a friend of mine took intravenous dilaudid (shooting up a strong opiate) for a week, and this was in the parking lot of a gas station, you'd be right to have concerns that said friend has an addiction problem.  If I told you a friend of mine took intravenous dilaudid for a week, but their major surgery went well and they could go home in a few days, most people wouldn't think anything about said "drug use" at all.  Even if I tailored the story to be twice the amount in the hospital, and half the amount in the parking lot, the response is still a strong contrast of "they're addicted and need help" or "I hope they make a speedy recovery".

Substance use (which is absolutely different from abuse) and sin, aren't necessarily a cut and dry, black and white, thing.  Some of it lands in the realm of personal conviction I believe.  One example, I recall our beloved admin Kerrick, years ago, talking about his preferred beer and what drinks he's had and he likes.  I see absolutely nothing wrong with that because Kerrick shows he is sober.  Anyone accusing him of drunkenness would just be a belligerent lying troll.  

For me to have the same drinks though, it the epitome of sin.  For me to entertain the idea of drinking those drinks, would be dangerously courting sin.  I may not have drank anything for over 13 years, but I know what would happen if I drank again - even 1 drink.  This switch in my mind would flip, and then I'd be hammered drunk until I ended up in a hospital or jail, because I have absolutely no control over it.  

I concede people could be the same way regarding cannabis, but there's too many variables for me to just cast a blanket statement.  I would certainly have an opinion if presented with a scenario, case by case though.

As far as Jewish Rabbis being against cannabis?  This is news to me.  The last batch I picked up at the dispensary a few months ago was blessed by a rabbi.  (That's not why I got it.  It was a strain to tackle the nausea, fatigue, discomfort I deal with - plus it was on sale LOL)  Cannabis is legal in my state.  I'm still trying to make sense of it being much easier to go into town to buy weed than it is to go into town and buy toilet paper, or buy a meal that I can eat at a restaurant. (if you guessed my state has a democrat governor from me saying that, you guessed correctly)

Contrarian Deist wrote:
Um...I never claimed Yeshua(why do you modern Christians keep calling him Jesus, that wasn't his name, his name was Yeshua or Jehoshua/Joshua, the claim that *well it's the english translation*.

I would have never expected for a deist to have sacred name theology.

Thomas.
Thank you. Your response is the most nuanced and comprehensive thus far.
You make some valid arguments in regards use vs abuse and a couple other things. While I don't agree fully on every point, I do on a few, and I appreciate your actual effort to address the nuances of the issue.

Thar said. Would you say that slightly tipsy(which will happen.even if just by accident to anyone who drinks alchohol or wine even just occasionally) versus getting black out wasted drunk are two different things, and that tipsy isn't bad or even *sinful* per se morally or biblically?
If you agree to this point. Then my question is the same in regards cannabis. Is slightly high not neccesarily bad, immoral, or *sinful*(in the biblical or christianity or religious context even) vs getting get blasted?
Is there nuance there do you think(personally, and/or from the Christian perspective)?

And do you agree that when Yeshua allegedly turned water to wine and gave it to the crowds(or drank it with his apostles and/or others at other times as well( that probably some of those people, maybe even some of his apostles and disciples and perhaps even himself, may have a lower tolerance and at least got a little tipsy or had the chemical reaction to their bodies/brains that it affected their moods to some degree...if even just making them cheerier)?
In which case, isn't it plausible that a comparison could be morally made that if Yeshua were here today he might say turn ordinary plants into cannabis plants and use and serve them instead...in moderation enough that neither he nor his apostles/diciples or the crowds served might get slightly high but not fried(lol!) By it and that might not be seen by him as a *sin* just as getting slightly tipsy or having the chemical reaction to body/brain affecting mood to be a bit cheerier by use of a moderate amount of alchohol apparently wasn't a major concern to him either?

Thanks again for your more nuanced and more comprehensive response. It is appreciated.

Peace
C.D,

ThomasEversole wrote:

Contrarian Deist wrote:
Um...I never claimed Yeshua(why do you modern Christians keep calling him Jesus, that wasn't his name, his name was Yeshua or Jehoshua/Joshua, the claim that *well it's the english translation*.

I would have never expected for a deist to have sacred name theology.

Lol! Yeah, well, I like to be historically and contextually accurate(and accurate in general). And...I'm also one of those Deists(PanDeist) or freethinkers who , while not being Christian or agreeing with revealed religions fundamental doctrines as *revealed religions*(christianity or otherwise, or really any type of religion *revealed* or otherwise) ...like some of the classical deists of the enlightenment like Thomas Paine or Thomas Jefferson had an appreciation for much(not all) the character and moral precepts of Yeshua(and others too, of other cultures religions founders, not all)..while also disagreeing with SOME of the teachings(one can agree on some and disagree in others but also acknowledge he or they or anyone one finds disagreements and agreements with...have a basic regard or respect for their character ...at least in some aspects if not many or all nonetheless).

Also I've studied mythology, religion, and the occult extensively (and the science that supports it too, and the paranormal and things like UFOlogy/alienology, etc)and this has given me some appreciation for such things and a wish to be as accurate as possible.



I'm a rationalist, but not one of those pseudoskeptic faux rationalists. I have an acknowledgement of the spiritual or mystic side of life/cosmos/existence/etc.
I am an occultist(intellectually, not practice/practically...though I once was)...this has given me a depth beyond the shallow depth of the classical materialists and pseudo skeptics and nu-atheists, etc. An appreciation for humans spiritual side, and an cautious open mindedness(or open minded cautiousness)