Deliverance...Jimmy can still sing...and what could have been

by average joe Wed May 08, 2019 5:11 pm

So, never paid much attention to “Here What I Say” when I found out it was a mixed bag of D and not a return to thrash/speed metal. Then I heard the following and it made me realize that this would have been an incredible melodic thrash/speed metal album (far superior to “Subersive Kind”) as a return to form had they stayed the course throughout. I was wondering if Jimmy could still sing on a speed metal album and questioned answered! They sound as tight as ever in these four tracks. I know Jimmy mentioned that they worked tirelessly on making “Subersive” sound old school but that sound is captured far more efficiently here IMO. Would love to hear an entire album recapturing the melodic aggression that made D so special. 16 mins worth of the magic formula captured here:

Up until the 9:52 mark is just awesome and fully recaptures the melodic aggression!

And then Jimmy sounds fantastic here:

by Guest Wed May 08, 2019 5:26 pm

I heard somewhere that jimmy got to train with Ken Tamplin to sing that Iron Maiden song.

I agree that the singing on Hear What I Say is better. But when we compare albums on a general context, the last album is superior.

by average joe Wed May 08, 2019 5:38 pm

Not comparing albums. Just saying that for about 16 mins it was a true return to form in terms of the melodic aggression that made D so special. Tracks that just immediately get stuck in your head due to infectious riffing and vocals. Haven’t had one Subersive song stick like the old speed/thrash stuff despite repeated listens.

by Black Rider Wed May 08, 2019 7:29 pm

I prefer Hear What I Say to The Subversive kind, somehow it sounds more natural to me.

by alldatndensum Thu May 09, 2019 7:10 am

Black Rider wrote:I prefer Hear What I Say to The Subversive kind, somehow it sounds more natural to me.

I didn't care for the early speed metal days, so I skipped The Subversive Kind. I agree that Hear What I Say sounds more natural as Jimmy was trying to blend two eras of D into one and did so flawlessly.

I am more into his solo stuff and can't wait until his new album comes out. His solo stuff has the Learn sound to me. I love it!!!

by Soldier777 Thu May 09, 2019 1:34 pm

I prefer the first 4 Deliverance albums, As Above, Subversive Kind and parts of Hear What I Say and a few tracks from River Disturbance and 60% of Learn. I didn't care for Camelot and Assimilation and most of River Disturbance and 40% of Learn. I prefer the faster, furious and thrashy side of Deliverance. I don't care for the slower/industrial/David Bowie side of Deliverance. If I were to pick one album I liked the least it would be Camelot. Jimmy said himself that due to pressure from the record company, Camelot was supposed to be a longer album that tells a story. The company told him to keep it to a regular album length. It will be interesting to see when he revamps the album in the future to see how it turns out.

I think Jimmy said at one point that when he did the slower industrial side he should of used a different name and not Deliverance. I think in the future he will put the thrashy music under Deliverance and the slower industrial music under a different name.

by eatbugs Thu May 09, 2019 1:51 pm

Soldier777 wrote:I think Jimmy said at one point that when he did the slower industrial side he should of used a different name and not Deliverance. I think in the future he will put the thrashy music under Deliverance and the slower industrial music under a different name.

And now he is. He's using the Eraserhead moniker for the melodic Deliverance. I hope to hear more of both.

I like both versions of Deliverance (all three if you count Assimilation as a third style - it should have been a Fearful Symmetry album).

by Guest Thu May 09, 2019 3:18 pm

If Learn, Camelot , river D. and even Stay of Execution were released under a different name, I would love those albums.

The big problem is that Jimmy and the guys set Deliverance into a far superior level of music, and then the rest seems like it is not that good.

(OK, OK, Stay can keep the Deliverance name)

by average joe Thu May 09, 2019 5:09 pm

Agreed! This wasn’t intended to be another conversation though about all those albums that should have been solo projects all along in what ended up being an incredibly uneven and inconsistent catalogue of music. I was really just trying to point of that for about 16 mins of Here What I Say, they recaptured the magic formula of melody and aggression. And, Jimmy proved he can still sing in this style (previously called into question) and could have used a similar vocal approach on Subersive. He once said he had an entire Weapons II album in mind that would be called Annals of Subterfuge. I think he provided a little peak as to what that material could have potentially sounded like with this album’s intro.

by MikeInFla Thu May 09, 2019 8:18 pm

Personally I like Jupiter VI better than anything he did as Deliverance. That doesnt mean I don't like the Big D it just means I like Moveable Walls better than any Deliverance album. But I enjoy Hear What I Say! & the Subversive Kind equally. Both albums are enjoyable.

by Guest Thu May 09, 2019 11:31 pm

Early Deliverance is THE best Deliverance in my opinion. Everything from the "Greetings Of Death" demo through "Weapons Of Our Warfare" is master-class thrash metal! "Stay Of Execution" went in a new direction and had some promise, "Learn" was much better but after that I haven't heard anything that can compete with the earlier stuff. I will say that when it comes to choosing between "Hear What I Say" and "The Subversive Kind", I'll go with "Hear What I Say" but that's only because I was so let down with "Subversive". "Hear What I Say" was still a let-down for me. I'll second what average joe said in that nothing I've heard in multiple listens from "Subversive" has stuck. The musicianship is there, sure, but nothing really memorable for me. I do like the new Eraserhead album quite a lot. Obviously that's where Jimmy excels at this point in his career so I would rather hear more in that vein than him trying to recapture the glory days just to satisfy mine or anyone else's nostalgia trip.

by average joe Fri May 10, 2019 12:13 am

I think it’s the lack of melody with Subversive. I mean, “What a Joke” lacked melody as well but made up for it with some incredible riffs, speed and aggression (speaking of the serious songs). Conversely, Subersive lacks the melodies AND the memorable riffs, speed and aggression (i.e., hooks). The vocal approach/style just isn’t like the other speed/thrash material despite the reported efforts to make it sound old school. The chops are obviously still there though based on the thrash material on Hear What I Say. Perhaps Subersive came out that way because he was simultaneously invested in both projects at the same time (seemed more invested/proud of the new non-thrash material) and the Eraserhead stuff/approach (i.e., artsy modern rock) simply bled through in the song writing, particularly in the vocal/lyric approach.

by crucifyd Fri May 10, 2019 6:29 am

average joe wrote:He once said he had an entire Weapons II album in mind that would be called Annals of Subterfuge.

Deliverance...Jimmy can still sing...and what could have been Deliverance%20-%20The%20Annals%20Of%20Subterfuge

by average joe Fri May 10, 2019 10:38 am

There you have it. Hence the title of this subject. “What could have been.” An entire album concept appears to have been reduced to a song. If I recall, George Ochoa was also briefly back in the fold during the planning stage for this. Of course, Glenn Rodgers joined very late in the process for Subversive. Not having those two in the writing process probably didn’t help. Jimmy and George even worked together on the heaviest Recon track.

by Guest Fri May 10, 2019 10:41 am

Anybody who may remember me, may remember I am a total JPB2 Fanboy! I havent actually heard the last 2 D albums, or the singles hes been doing, but I have heard Eraserhead which is a great album.

I loved Jupiter VI as well, at one time there was going to be a second J6 album in which i had a copy of the demo it never saw the light of day but its cool to see "Story of Time" finally get officially released.

Anything he does I like, I love his sound, his vocals, plus he's always been good and kind to me and in my youth was one of my musical heros.

Learn had the biggest impact on me, but I love ALL the D albums including Assimilation some really good songwriting there.

What I am really looking forward to is the re-release of Camelot in the format it was ORIGINALLY supposed to be released.

by Ammocas Fri May 10, 2019 10:01 pm

crucifyd wrote:
average joe wrote:He once said he had an entire Weapons II album in mind that would be called Annals of Subterfuge.

Now this is something I could sink my teeth into...IMO the early Deliverance albums are the best...don’t get me wrong, I’m grateful for ‘subversive’ or any new stuff JPB2 puts out...but I thought subversive kind was a little too short time wise and really nothing stuck in my head or was catchy...that being said, I absolutely love Eraserhead and Jupiter VI...and like this side of Jimmy P. Brown II.

Recently, I picked up the reissue of ‘Hear What I Say’ and I’m glad I did! The cover of Where Eagles Dare is worth the price alone, and I agree with average Joe about the first few songs on the album...Jimmy and band are in top form and nail it. I do prefer this album over ‘subversive’ in that I find myself listening to it more.

Anyway, a weapons 2 or annals of subterfuge album would be welcomed anytime!

by average joe Sat May 11, 2019 1:36 am

Actually, after further thought, the Weapons follow up was not going to be called Annals of Subterfuge. That ultimately ended up being the false start thrash album title and artwork, before they ultimately decided on (and released) Hear What I Say with Annals of Subterfuge simply as a track within a non-speed/thrash album. The concept for the Weapons follow up was actually going to be called “The Pulling Down of Strongholds.”

by alldatndensum Sat May 11, 2019 8:24 am

Warzawa wrote:Anybody who may remember me, may remember I am a total JPB2 Fanboy! I havent actually heard the last 2 D albums, or the singles hes been doing, but I have heard Eraserhead which is a great album.

I loved Jupiter VI as well, at one time there was going to be a second J6 album in which i had a copy of the demo it never saw the light of day but its cool to see "Story of Time" finally get officially released.

Anything he does I like, I love his sound, his vocals, plus he's always been good and kind to me and in my youth was one of my musical heros.

Learn had the biggest impact on me, but I love ALL the D albums including Assimilation some really good songwriting there.

What I am really looking forward to is the re-release of Camelot in the format it was ORIGINALLY supposed to be released.

I have a low quality MP3 version of this second album called "Back From Mars". You may have been the one to send it to me. I don't remember honestly. Anyway, I remastered what I had and sent it to Jimmy and to Scott and Bill at Roxx Records. I don't know if it will ever be officially released, but it should. My remaster sounds just like the debut Jupiter VI album.

by Black Rider Sat May 11, 2019 12:53 pm

I didn't enjoy Camelot or Jupiter VI when they came out but do more so now. Still can't get into Assimilation,

by Ammocas Sat May 11, 2019 11:17 pm

Black Rider wrote:I didn't enjoy Camelot or Jupiter VI when they came out but do more so now. Still can't get into Assimilation,

Same here, I guess my tastes have changed a little as I enjoy Jupiter VI now...I never got into Camelot but I’m gonna dig it out and listen to it some more.

Assimilation was probably my least favorite...a little to industrial... a couple of decent songs on there ...(the circle, sell your soul, save me from..) I’m more of a power and thrash metal fan...but not a bad album for what it is, just not into that genre.

by Guest Mon May 13, 2019 2:55 pm

alldatndensum wrote:
Warzawa wrote:Anybody who may remember me, may remember I am a total JPB2 Fanboy! I havent actually heard the last 2 D albums, or the singles hes been doing, but I have heard Eraserhead which is a great album.

I loved Jupiter VI as well, at one time there was going to be a second J6 album in which i had a copy of the demo it never saw the light of day but its cool to see "Story of Time" finally get officially released.

Anything he does I like, I love his sound, his vocals, plus he's always been good and kind to me and in my youth was one of my musical heros.

Learn had the biggest impact on me, but I love ALL the D albums including Assimilation some really good songwriting there.

What I am really looking forward to is the re-release of Camelot in the format it was ORIGINALLY supposed to be released.

I have a low quality MP3 version of this second album called "Back From Mars". You may have been the one to send it to me. I don't remember honestly. Anyway, I remastered what I had and sent it to Jimmy and to Scott and Bill at Roxx Records. I don't know if it will ever be officially released, but it should. My remaster sounds just like the debut Jupiter VI album.

Story of Time was redone and released on Eraserhead, I asked Jimmy why it never saw the light of day and he had mentioned bout some of the lyrical content being questionable.

by deathisgain Mon May 13, 2019 7:17 pm

crucifyd wrote:
average joe wrote:He once said he had an entire Weapons II album in mind that would be called Annals of Subterfuge.

I really wanted this one to happen, as well as the work I did on the second J6, but supposedly a hard drive crash took it all down.

by petrafan007 Tue May 14, 2019 2:41 pm

I bet none of you could 2nd this order of favorite to least favorite.

1) As Above, So Below (excellent guitar tone and songwriting)
2) Stay of Execution (epic)
3) Deliverance
4) Weapons of our Warfare
5) Assimilation (underrated)
6) Camelot in Smithereens
7) What a Joke!
Cool

Hear What I say!
9) River Disturbance
10) The Subversive Kind
11) Learn! (almost a total bore)

by Guest Tue May 14, 2019 4:22 pm

mine wouldnt look like that

by average joe Tue May 14, 2019 6:19 pm

Man, this thread got way off track as predicted. Couldn’t care less about the side project albums or their rankings. Wanted to have a discussion about the thrash material of Here What I Say versus Subersive, Annals of Subterfuge album false start, as well as The Pulling Down of Strongholds follow up to Weapons that never happened, etc. Depressing how every D thrash thread end up in rankings of Jimmy’s artsy rock side projects. No wonder he finally admitted to making the mistake of dragging a legendary speed/thrash outfit through the mud by being compared to side projects with the same name and no resemblance.

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