Did anyone see this back in April about a Christian band called Matthew 24 Now? *WARNING - SHOWS PERSON BEING SHOT ***

by Guest Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:00 pm

If this was black family and the cops did this, you would never have heard the end of it. Yet because the family was white, no one thinks twice about it.

These cops came in with an attitude and were absolutely the aggressors...they should have been brought up on charges. Is the family crazy? yes... Doesn't mean they deserved this. Read the comments I am going to post from the article from some people who had a little inside knowledge...

http://www.vanyaland.com/2015/04/10/christian-band-matthew-24-now-involved-in-deadly-brawl-with-police-at-wal-mart-in-arizona/

by Guest Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:01 pm

LARRYM792NATO

“In less than 10 seconds, three members of the Gaver family begin to shove
and punch police officers,…” This is incorrect. At 0:35 if you look
closely you will see a police officer suddenly grabs and slams one of
the young family members to the ground. He is in the middle of the group
and it is a little hard to spot because of the video angle. It’s hard
not to look in front of this area I am talking about, where the younger
Gaver brother/son stands rigidly in front of the policeman who had just
arrived and seemingly was about to put his hands on the youngest sister
to separate the family. As soon as the officer grabbed the brother and
threw him to the ground the melee broke out. The Gavers, who are strict
practicing Christian Pacifists never stood a chance. They were beaten up
by the police, the security guard, and I believe there was another man
in a cowboy hat.
I know Peter personally and I had some disagreements with him and no longer communicated
with him but I had a lengthy disagreement with his beliefs. He believed that he was commanded
by God via the bible to never physically defend himself under ANY
circumstances. And I’m sure this is what he taught his children. These
were unarmed, non violent people. And the police went in there with a
purpose. For some reason the walmart worker’s word is questioned by no
one. It was her report that one single person “shoved” her. But the
police showed up and accosted the whole family. How does one even make
sense of that?
Many people are commenting on these with verbal
attacks on the family. I’ve noticed that everyone that does this is
either a right wing extremist, a cop apologist, a cop using a
pseudo-name or people that hate Christians. The Gaver family were quite
different. And I didn’t agree with the fact that the father allowed his
family to be practically homeless. Or his story that satanists were
after him. But I do believe his family was harmless. And I believe what
the police did that night was assault and murder. And that infront of
two of Gaver’s minor children who will likely be scarred forever. What a
way to treat a family who is already paranoid of the police. Great
going guys! And then the police lock the two minor children up in juvie
instead of letting them be comforted by their parents.
What I believe is that this walmart worker was fed up with the Gavers coming in
and cleaning up in the restroom. I believe there was an ongoing
friction there. I believe she complained about it to whoever would
listen to her. Namely the security there, who also may have been fed up
with the Gavers. Someone who lives in the area said the security knows
several police officers personally and that he attempted to get a job
with them but failed a background check. And so I think this whole thing
was set up before hand but the police and everyone else didn’t expect
it to take the turn it did. I believe there are a lot of lies and
half-truths being told by several people involved in this whole thing.
And if I was a journalist in the area I would have asked to right
questions and brought a fair account of what happened there that night.

by Guest Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:01 pm

DVMARTINESQ

I am really surprised at the way the media is describing this tragedy and even more suprised at the hatred spewed on this site. I don’t know the whole story here, but this sure looks like police brutality to me. I am a lawyer and have worked for two major police departments. My father was also a NYC police officer, then firefighter. I grew up being lectured on police procedure and my father pointing out when it was not followed in stories on the news. The so-called brawl began only because the police who rushed onto the scene, where another officer appear to be calmly questioning the family, rushed up on the family and tried to separate minor children from their parents for questioning — which they have no right to do. The 14 year old boy — clearly in a child’s voice — said, “No you’re not going to separate me from my parents…. The cop grabbed the boy and the boy said, “Don’t touch me.” The father said, “Don’t touch my son.” From what I can tell, the father seems to be trying to hold onto his son whom the officer was grabbing. It seems that an officer grabs or hits the father and son says something like, “Get off my father and does hit or or push the officer, apparently to protect his father. Then it seems to become a mess. The police were apparently assaulting children because the father was yelling, you are hitting children, sir! The mother was crying and saying you’re killing my family!” It’s hard to tell what happens in the huddle of people on the right, but there is a struggle and someone is left dead and the mother is left crying. Reports reveal that one of the officers shot the 21-year-old son in the head and the 28-year-old son in the abdomen, but he survived. This 21 year old young man was killed in front of his entire family, including his parents, 11 year old sister, and 3 other brothers in their twenties, including one that the officers shot in the abdomen. Oh, yes, and either the same officer shot another officer in his leg, trying to shoot a family member, or the officer shot himself in the leg. Although some articles infer that the 21 year old who was killed shot the officer, or was at least reaching for the officer’s gun, other reports make it clear that the kid never had the officer’s gun. This was all because a Walmart employee claim that one of the family members shoved her on her on our way to the restroom? I can’t even imagine that a shove, even if it occurred, would cause all this concern. The police approached them with another Walmart employee, who was involved in the brawl as well. Why was that Walmart employee allowed that close to the family in the first place? Why was he not arrested for assaulting the family members? All the remaining family members were arrested for assaulting officers and resisting arrest, but I did not see the mother assault anyone. She was bending over her dead son’s body begging the officers to leave them alone. They even arrested the 14 and 11 year old kids, putting them in juvie, instead of allowing them to be comforted by their parents, after just witnessing the police kill their 21 year old brother and severely wound another brother. Again, this is absolutely not an example of appropriate police conduct. Another article reveals that people often park their RVs in a section of the Walmart parking lot and “camp” there. Some nearby residents don’t like it. They use the Walmart restrooms. Maybe Walmart doesn’t like that, but Walmart must also benefit because these people must buy most of what they need from Walmart. Why would they travel farther for basics? This seems like an abuse of power against powerless people.

by Guest Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:03 pm

Also, of course, you have all the a*holes saying comments about them being Christian and all that....

A Christian gets in trouble or does wrong, and they slam all Christians..

An atheist or muslim does something and it is just THAT person

by Guest Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:44 pm

by Peter who was Vaak Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:27 pm

My parents live like 30 or 40 miles from where that happened. I can't say I heard anything about it, but I don't listen to much local news.
This is freaking nuts! I'll have to watch the video laterwhen I have a stable Internet connection.

by Guest Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:36 pm

You can see the cop pull out his gun and shoot the kid point blank in the head.

When the h*** is that EVER something a cop should do to an unarmed kid

by Guest Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:41 pm

Mortal,

I agree with what you said, but I think it is pretty clear in this video that the cops were out of control here.

Also, why was the Walmart security guard allowed to keep going in and causing issues? He kept adding fuel to the fire by attacking the family members from behind. The cops should have made him leave. Plus, he should be brought up on charges.

by Guest Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:34 pm

by Guest Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:37 pm

The Walmart security guard was the guy in the white (?) shirt and long pants that left with the woman after the shooting. major instigator. The woman was the Walmart supervisor

by ThomasEversole Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:52 pm

Looks like 3:13-3:14 was the fatal shot. Also, with the woman screaming at the end "You killed my husband!!!", I don't get the remark of shooting "the kid" in the head. He's an adult.

This family is a pacifist Christian band? No they're not. They swinging at each other and police.

The dad/adult saying "You're hitting children", anyone else notice they were bigger than the cops and these "kids" were hitting them?

I'd say the cops were messy and bumbling. I mean, 3:19, one cop kicks another cop in the head.

...but you attack a cop with a fist, you're not exactly "unarmed". I'm not at all surprised someone got shot/killed when first batons, then a taser did nothing to slow the situation down.

If I was a cop getting repeatedly attacked and two non-fatal means were already used to try to stop the chaos, sorry to say it, I would have shot him too.

by Guest Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:10 am

by Guest Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:23 am

Mortal wrote:I can hear a threat in there ("I'll shoot you"), but it's impossible to tell who said it.

Also, we have to consider the possibilty of someone trying to grab the cop's gun.

Too much chaos.

If you watch close, you can see the one cop walk up and shoot the kid right in the head. No excuse for that.

Lots of chaos, yes...but to me it looks like the cops egged it on and took it too far.

I have always been a staunch defender of the police, but not in this incident. I think these cops are nothing more than murderous scum

by Guest Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:25 am

That Walmart employee actually got an award. What a joke. He kept walking up behind the guy and hitting him from behind whenever it looked like he was calming down.

by Guest Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:31 am

Read the comments section

http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=65300

by Guest Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:34 am

The cop who got shot either shot himself or was shot by the other copy by accident, btw

by Guest Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:24 am

by metallikitty Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:28 am

I remember this. Read it on my news feed back then. Horrible. Prayed for the people involved and affected by it.

by d@v!d Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:25 am

NoOneIsHere wrote:If this was black family and the cops did this, you would never have heard the end of it. Yet because the family was white, no one thinks twice about it.

These cops came in with an attitude and were absolutely the aggressors...they should have been brought up on charges. Is the family crazy? yes... Doesn't mean they deserved this. Read the comments I am going to post from the article from some people who had a little inside knowledge...

http://www.vanyaland.com/2015/04/10/christian-band-matthew-24-now-involved-in-deadly-brawl-with-police-at-wal-mart-in-arizona/

Yes, I remember. You bring some very different views than everything I heard. I basically agree that the police came in like the goon squad and stirred it up. The family ultimately takes blame for non-compliance, but the police should be trained better to know that barking out orders and pushing people around in a tense situation isn't likely to achieve the desired results as calm words will. It really didn't have to go down like that.

by Guest Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:47 am

d@v!d wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:If this was black family and the cops did this, you would never have heard the end of it. Yet because the family was white, no one thinks twice about it.

These cops came in with an attitude and were absolutely the aggressors...they should have been brought up on charges. Is the family crazy? yes... Doesn't mean they deserved this. Read the comments I am going to post from the article from some people who had a little inside knowledge...

http://www.vanyaland.com/2015/04/10/christian-band-matthew-24-now-involved-in-deadly-brawl-with-police-at-wal-mart-in-arizona/
Yes, I remember. You bring some very different views than everything I heard. I basically agree that the police came in like the goon squad and stirred it up. The family ultimately takes blame for non-compliance, but the police should be trained better to know that barking out orders and pushing people around in a tense situation isn't likely to achieve the desired results as calm words will. It really didn't have to go down like that.

Did you see the part in the video when the cop shot the kid in the head? The cop who shot had the time and was not being accosted when he did it. The kid was on top of the other cop, true, but there were better options than aiming for the kid's head.

by d@v!d Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:00 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:
d@v!d wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:If this was black family and the cops did this, you would never have heard the end of it. Yet because the family was white, no one thinks twice about it.

These cops came in with an attitude and were absolutely the aggressors...they should have been brought up on charges. Is the family crazy? yes... Doesn't mean they deserved this. Read the comments I am going to post from the article from some people who had a little inside knowledge...

http://www.vanyaland.com/2015/04/10/christian-band-matthew-24-now-involved-in-deadly-brawl-with-police-at-wal-mart-in-arizona/
Yes, I remember. You bring some very different views than everything I heard. I basically agree that the police came in like the goon squad and stirred it up. The family ultimately takes blame for non-compliance, but the police should be trained better to know that barking out orders and pushing people around in a tense situation isn't likely to achieve the desired results as calm words will. It really didn't have to go down like that.

Did you see the part in the video when the cop shot the kid in the head? The cop who shot had the time and was not being accosted when he did it. The kid was on top of the other cop, true, but there were better options than aiming for the kid's head.

Yes. When you use a gun you use it to kill. Shooting to merely would is a product of fiction. Nevertheless, it looked like an execution al mafioso. Did he need to kill him? I don't know. It's hard to see. If the officer saw the man reaching for the others gun, then yes. If it was used as a pragmatic means for situation control...

Your other point about skin color and religion is spot on.

The bottom line for all of us is to stay out of trouble and handle police carefully. They are under a lot of stress these days and it doesn't take much to make them feel the need to use deadly force. When police order you to do something, just humor them. This family wouldn't have lost a son if they had just complied and calmly stated their case.

by Guest Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:12 pm

d@v!d wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:
d@v!d wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:If this was black family and the cops did this, you would never have heard the end of it. Yet because the family was white, no one thinks twice about it.

These cops came in with an attitude and were absolutely the aggressors...they should have been brought up on charges. Is the family crazy? yes... Doesn't mean they deserved this. Read the comments I am going to post from the article from some people who had a little inside knowledge...

http://www.vanyaland.com/2015/04/10/christian-band-matthew-24-now-involved-in-deadly-brawl-with-police-at-wal-mart-in-arizona/
Yes, I remember. You bring some very different views than everything I heard. I basically agree that the police came in like the goon squad and stirred it up. The family ultimately takes blame for non-compliance, but the police should be trained better to know that barking out orders and pushing people around in a tense situation isn't likely to achieve the desired results as calm words will. It really didn't have to go down like that.

Did you see the part in the video when the cop shot the kid in the head? The cop who shot had the time and was not being accosted when he did it. The kid was on top of the other cop, true, but there were better options than aiming for the kid's head.
Yes. When you use a gun you use it to kill. Shooting to merely would is a product of fiction. Nevertheless, it looked like an execution al mafioso. Did he need to kill him? I don't know. It's hard to see. If the officer saw the man reaching for the others gun, then yes. If it was used as a pragmatic means for situation control...

Your other point about skin color and religion is spot on.

The bottom line for all of us is to stay out of trouble and handle police carefully. They are under a lot of stress these days and it doesn't take much to make them feel the need to use deadly force. When police order you to do something, just humor them. This family wouldn't have lost a son if they had just complied and calmly stated their case.

Agreed, compliance is the key. Of course, as I said previously, the family was crazy..no doubt. Crazy people won't react sanely Smile

by d@v!d Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:34 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:Agreed, compliance is the key. Of course, as I said previously, the family was crazy..no doubt. Crazy people won't react sanely

And that's why the police need to be trained to rise above that. Instead of rumbling in like the good squad and barking orders setting their crazy into frantic, they should have sought to talk them calm. Authoritarianism has it's time and place, but I don't think circumstances like there are one.

Did any of them have guns? Did any of them threaten violence? They only became violent when they were unnecessarily agitated.

by Guest Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:21 pm

d@v!d wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:Agreed, compliance is the key. Of course, as I said previously, the family was crazy..no doubt. Crazy people won't react sanely
And that's why the police need to be trained to rise above that. Instead of rumbling in like the good squad and barking orders setting their crazy into frantic, they should have sought to talk them calm. Authoritarianism has it's time and place, but I don't think circumstances like there are one.

Did any of them have guns? Did any of them threaten violence? They only became violent when they were unnecessarily agitated.

Nope..no one had a gun or any weapon. There are conflicting reports about whether or not the deceased went for the cop's gun..I am prone to believe the ones that said he did not.

by d@v!d Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:00 pm

NoOneIsHere wrote:
d@v!d wrote:
NoOneIsHere wrote:Agreed, compliance is the key. Of course, as I said previously, the family was crazy..no doubt. Crazy people won't react sanely
And that's why the police need to be trained to rise above that. Instead of rumbling in like the good squad and barking orders setting their crazy into frantic, they should have sought to talk them calm. Authoritarianism has it's time and place, but I don't think circumstances like there are one.

Did any of them have guns? Did any of them threaten violence? They only became violent when they were unnecessarily agitated.

Nope..no one had a gun or any weapon. There are conflicting reports about whether or not the deceased went for the cop's gun..I am prone to believe the ones that said he did not.

I'd like to believe he did because the connotations of if he didn't make me too uncomfortable.

The other Walmart police incident that really bothered me was the killing of John Crawford III. If you can find the whole video with the sound synced it's even sadder than the video above.

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Did anyone see this back in April about a Christian band called Matthew 24 Now? *WARNING - SHOWS PERSON BEING SHOT ***