Would you guys "subscribe" to one of your favorite bands on Patreon?

Tobi Elektrik wrote:The core of the band's activity should be good live performances and great albums. Everything else just clogs up the attention span of the fans for me. And it takes away time and money they could invest in other artists.

Bands make nothing from albums these days, and frankly, not that much from shows either unless they are really big.

Most fans are happy to just listen to your music online and give you nothing.  Or even watch your full live shows on YouTube for free.

It wasn't always this way.  If you want things to be like the old days, let's start with artists making money from their albums.  I think the improvements would trickle down from there:  better songs, more songs, better songs to play live, etc.

But it's hard to compete with free, which is what everyone else is charging to hear their music.  In the long run that makes the scene so much worse, but it's hard to explain the long-term consequences to folks who are selfish and just don't care.

Second Wind wrote:This is interesting...at least the price seem very honest and affordable.

I would like to be a part of it, but I am not sure if a service like this would hold me for mid-long term. I might lose interest within a few months.
Also, I only sign for such a service if I truly believe that the band is going to be very active in the following months. It seems obvious, but how many bands we love that are still active?

It also made me remember the club pass Bloodgood release in 2013 along with their new album. I don't think they have delivered what was promised.

Of course it would be incumbent on said band to keep some sort of flow of content updates and to stay active.

I don't want to conflate this with bands who do kickstarter to fund a new album and don't deliver, if I understand correctly what you are referring to.  I think this is a very different offer.

It's not a thing I would do. Firstly because I don't really have the cash flow to do it, and second because I can't justify spending the money even if I had it.

I can understand why bands do it. I've seen where fans are attacking Stryper for offering a free song to it's Patreon subscribers. The same people would complain if Stryper put out an album every ten years because they couldn't afford to do it.

Lex Metalis wrote:I'm a part of The Blessed Resistance, a fan site/comunity made by Demon Hunter. 

We have acess to deep meanings of some songs, early acess to videos/singles/merchandise, play throughts, etc... and this year, the fans made part of the gang vocals to an exclusive song called 'We Are'.

So, If I had the money and like the band, no problem to me.

I'm a part of this also. There are also personal things related to the band (How Jeremiah built his studio, the thoughts,  details and the actual process behind recording/mixing the latest album, a series on Jonathan Dunn's collection of cars he works on, and other band hobbies and interests). Unreleased versions of songs have been available for download, acoustic living room covers and alternate versions have been released. I think it's really well done.

I rarely comment on posts within it but you can interact with the band. It is pretty cool. I've found it worth it. Not sure about doing it long-term though. I've been a part of it for a little over a year though.

I might depending on the band and the cost. I have the money to do it where I work a full time job and a part time job. The thing is do I have time to listen/watch/take part in the bonus features is my issues. I have around 60 or so CDs I haven't fully listened to yet and several records. My top 4 bands are:

1. Stryper
2. Impellitteri
3. Saint
4. Petra/Classic Petra/CPR
5. depends on my mood but it's likely a band like Rez, X-Sinner or Ken Tamplin. 

I try to support a band by buying additional merch. When I buy from a band direct like Richard Lynch of Saint, I would buy additional merch. I ordered form him the Heaven Fell CD, vinyl, shirt and a Saint mug. I got my money's worth. I did something similar with the Calf in the summer of 2020. 

If Boones, Girder and Roxx reissued albums I already have I would sell off the older versions and buy the reissues if they are better.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Tobi Elektrik wrote:The core of the band's activity should be good live performances and great albums. Everything else just clogs up the attention span of the fans for me. And it takes away time and money they could invest in other artists.

Bands make nothing from albums these days, and frankly, not that much from shows either unless they are really big.

Most fans are happy to just listen to your music online and give you nothing.  Or even watch your full live shows on YouTube for free.

It wasn't always this way.  If you want things to be like the old days, let's start with artists making money from their albums.  I think the improvements would trickle down from there:  better songs, more songs, better songs to play live, etc.

But it's hard to compete with free, which is what everyone else is charging to hear their music.  In the long run that makes the scene so much worse, but it's hard to explain the long-term consequences to folks who are selfish and just don't care.

The Steve Bell I mentioned above has talked alot about this problem. He explains that musicians may have to go back to the days of being patrons of the court, where kings/knights/earls, etc. would employ musicians and artists. Here's some info for those interested in how/why he does this: Support - Steve Bell.

I wouldn't do it for anyone.  They want me to buy their music, buy tickets to their shows, buy t-shirts and other merch, and now they want me to basically pay for all the things that we used to get on social media for free?  To me, that's basically musician welfare.  I think it is ridiculous and will not do this.  If music doesn't pay the bills, then you might need to think about a full-time job instead.  That's what the rest of us who occasionally release music have to do.

alldatndensum wrote:I wouldn't do it for anyone.  They want me to buy their music, buy tickets to their shows, buy t-shirts and other merch, and now they want me to basically pay for all the things that we used to get on social media for free?  To me, that's basically musician welfare.  I think it is ridiculous and will not do this.  If music doesn't pay the bills, then you might need to think about a full-time job instead.  That's what the rest of us who occasionally release music have to do.

I'm not sure who you're referring to but I think EVERYONE in the Christian Metal scene works a normal job except Stryper.

The vast majority of things I listed were not available on social media for free.

It's not welfare.  It's offering goods and services for a fee, which makes it a business.  That's not welfare, which is guaranteed money for nothing whatsoever.  I would definitely subscribe to a service where Dave Mustaine tells me how he writes songs or gives me insight into his writing, as one example.  

This is also for bands who probably wouldn't do big tours and come close to most folks anyway, so you wouldn't have already bought "tickets" for them.

If you're still not interested, that's no problem.  It's not for everyone.  I think you're way off on what is being proposed here though.  Also if you can think of anything additional things that a band could offer of value to you, I'd be happy to hear your suggestions.

Sevenoneself wrote:

The Steve Bell I mentioned above has talked alot about this problem. He explains that musicians may have to go back to the days of being patrons of the court, where kings/knights/earls, etc. would employ musicians and artists. Here's some info for those interested in how/why he does this: Support - Steve Bell.

That's exactly what I'm proposing in this thread.  A few very supportive fans can make a big difference to a band/ministry.

I will look into Steve Bell more.  Thanks!

Temple of Blood wrote:So all the Nos here are saying they would never support Theocracy like this?

As a matter of fact I was keeping the door slightly open exactly with Theocracy in mind. But even then it wouldn't be a done deal, no.

I'm also unsure of the pushback on this idea. Perhaps I'm more supportive of it b/c I have already been introduced to it and am part of it already. 

We support missionaries monthly b/c 1) they are involved in work that doesn't create financial gain, and 2) we believe they are doing something positive in the world even though we don't receive any personal gain from it. I suppose one could say that this is different than supporting a music band b/c the former is fulfilling the great commission.

I would assert, and try to sustain, that artistry--especially Christian--is in the same vein. Artistry does not provide sustenance or provision for physical life. However, it provides an intangible benefit that protects our humanity and connection with the spiritual.

I would think that most of us here set aside a percentage of our income to donate to Christian causes and the less fortunate. For the reasons above, I include the concept of artists as a portion of my donation budget.

I have been the beneficiary of this type of financial support. A couple from our church gave me money to buy a decent acoustic guitar. At various other times I was given gifts of $50 - $300 to buy whatever musical gear I needed. This was specifically because I am an unpaid worship leader in our church. 

Don't misunderstand me, I am only defending the idea of monthly support of artists. There are other issues that muddy the waters, but are different. Some of these have been brought up already on this thread. They all need to be addressed, but they are NOT the subject that ToB is bringing up. 

To illustrate this in real life: at this point, I would probably not support T0B monthly. 1) With finances being tight right now, our family's donation budget is full and I would need to make any decisions like that with my wife; unfortunately she does not know ToB at all and would probably not be open to the idea at the present time. 2) I would prefer to support an artist closer to my community (which I do already). 3) I would like to personally know an artist a bit more before I committed to something like this.

But in all honesty, I have privately considered something like this for ToB and a few others of you on this forum, because I have done it before.

These are my thoughts. Don't take them as gospel truth or even a 1st or 2nd level doctrine!

This Steve Bell that I mentioned has done alot of the behind the scenes legal and administrative work and is part of a registered charity that offers tax-deductible receipts for donations and monthly supporters. That is a big draw for people!

Sevenonseself, looking at what Steve is doing ... it looks quite different than what I am saying.

He is asking for relatively large donations, and doesn't seem to be offering stuff to folks.  Unless I am reading his website correctly.

There is no problem with that at all, it is just different than what I am proposing here.

Temple of Blood wrote:

scottmitchell74 wrote:No

I respect your answer.

Is there anything one of your favorite bands could offer to change your mind?

Nah.

I'm not a collector/completest. I like studio albums and I'll be happy to come see you if you're within 4-hours in any direction but I'm not into signed things, rare or limited things. Behind-the-scenes stuff doesn't do it for me much, either. 

I DID pay Michael Sweet $69 to scream my buddie's name for his birthday on Cameo, but that's a rare one-off thing. 

I'm a huge/firm believer in paying for music, so I like/want the product - and I will overpay for Christian or special bands - but everything else is superfluous to me.


Of course that's just me and everyone's mileage may vary.

I'm 48 so even back in the pre-internet days I didn't do fan-club stuff. I DESPERATELY miss the way we could only know bands via the mags/rags/word of mouth or scouring the record shop and buying things because they looked cool.

Nothing was better than reading a write-up of a band in a magazine or pamphlet and then sending $8-10-12 to them in the mail and waiting weeks or months to get your cassette.

ToB - what was that thing some years ago (still now maybe?) where people would pledge X-$amount and the band would then put out the album...or refund you if they failed to do so. That's in my wheelhouse because it leads to music.

ToB - I think a lot of what you're thinking appeals to musicians - which you are - and you like all the techy-grind-artistry of it all, so I'm sure a certain sub-set of fans would/do like that.

scottmitchell74 wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

scottmitchell74 wrote:No

I respect your answer.

Is there anything one of your favorite bands could offer to change your mind?

Nah.

I'm not a collector/completest. I like studio albums and I'll be happy to come see you if you're within 4-hours in any direction but I'm not into signed things, rare or limited things. Behind-the-scenes stuff doesn't do it for me much, either. 

I DID pay Michael Sweet $69 to scream my buddie's name for his birthday on Cameo, but that's a rare one-off thing. 

I'm a huge/firm believer in paying for music, so I like/want the product - and I will overpay for Christian or special bands - but everything else is superfluous to me.


Of course that's just me and everyone's mileage may vary.

I'm 48 so even back in the pre-internet days I didn't do fan-club stuff. I DESPERATELY miss the way we could only know bands via the mags/rags/word of mouth or scouring the record shop and buying things because they looked cool.

Nothing was better than reading a write-up of a band in a magazine or pamphlet and then sending $8-10-12 to them in the mail and waiting weeks or months to get your cassette.

ToB - what was that thing some years ago (still now maybe?) where people would pledge X-$amount and the band would then put out the album...or refund you if they failed to do so. That's in my wheelhouse because it leads to music.

ToB - I think a lot of what you're thinking appeals to musicians - which you are - and you like all the techy-grind-artistry of it all, so I'm sure a certain sub-set of fans would/do like that.

That all makes sense to me.

I do think what I would offer would appeal to other musicians.  Other bands could offer different perks.

I think what you are referring to is crowdfunding, which sometimes works well but only IMHO if the album is already pretty much in the can.  There are a lot of horror stories associated with it and bad will.

I’d probably be the most likely to do this for Pierce Pettis, actually.

Temple of Blood wrote:Sevenonseself, looking at what Steve is doing ... it looks quite different than what I am saying.

He is asking for relatively large donations, and doesn't seem to be offering stuff to folks.  Unless I am reading his website correctly.

There is no problem with that at all, it is just different than what I am proposing here.

You are correct on both accounts. It seems to me that a few years ago he was promoting monthly supporters of smaller amounts, but when I went yesterday to find this info for you it was strangely absent from the site.

As far as not offering stuff to folks you are correct as well. But unless I'm mistaken, a few years ago he was offering some monthly rewards similar to what you are proposing and what other bands have done. 

I guess what I'm saying is: from my personal perspective I do not care for you to offer anything to me. If I choose to support an artist monthly I (personally) want to see mid and long-term progress (similar to a missionary). I would support them based on their past track record and what I know about their character. Like others have shared on this thread, I often do not have the time to enjoy monthly extras from bands. I would want the artist/band to focus on their ministry and not to have to spend all their teime appeasing monthly supporters--I know what this is like because I spent 6 years as a Bible Camp Director whose wage was paid 100% by monthly supporters.

Pethead wrote:I’d probably be the most likely to do this for Pierce Pettis, actually.

I don't know who that is, but that's cool.

scottmitchell74 wrote:I'm not a collector/completest. I like studio albums and I'll be happy to come see you if you're within 4-hours in any direction but I'm not into signed things, rare or limited things. Behind-the-scenes stuff doesn't do it for me much, either.

yes

scottmitchell74 wrote:I'm 48 so even back in the pre-internet days I didn't do fan-club stuff. I DESPERATELY miss the way we could only know bands via the mags/rags/word of mouth or scouring the record shop and buying things because they looked cool.

Nothing was better than reading a write-up of a band in a magazine or pamphlet and then sending $8-10-12 to them in the mail and waiting weeks or months to get your cassette.

and the internet is soooo insanely overwhelming when you have FOMO...

crucifyd wrote:

scottmitchell74 wrote:I'm not a collector/completest. I like studio albums and I'll be happy to come see you if you're within 4-hours in any direction but I'm not into signed things, rare or limited things. Behind-the-scenes stuff doesn't do it for me much, either.

yes

scottmitchell74 wrote:I'm 48 so even back in the pre-internet days I didn't do fan-club stuff. I DESPERATELY miss the way we could only know bands via the mags/rags/word of mouth or scouring the record shop and buying things because they looked cool.

Nothing was better than reading a write-up of a band in a magazine or pamphlet and then sending $8-10-12 to them in the mail and waiting weeks or months to get your cassette.

and the internet is soooo insanely overwhelming when you have FOMO...

Yes! It's too much. It's honestly amazing...and I hate it. ‍�

Temple of Blood wrote:

Pethead wrote:I’d probably be the most likely to do this for Pierce Pettis, actually.

I don't know who that is, but that's cool.

Folky singer-songwriter.

scottmitchell74 wrote:

crucifyd wrote:

scottmitchell74 wrote:I'm not a collector/completest. I like studio albums and I'll be happy to come see you if you're within 4-hours in any direction but I'm not into signed things, rare or limited things. Behind-the-scenes stuff doesn't do it for me much, either.

yes

scottmitchell74 wrote:I'm 48 so even back in the pre-internet days I didn't do fan-club stuff. I DESPERATELY miss the way we could only know bands via the mags/rags/word of mouth or scouring the record shop and buying things because they looked cool.

Nothing was better than reading a write-up of a band in a magazine or pamphlet and then sending $8-10-12 to them in the mail and waiting weeks or months to get your cassette.

and the internet is soooo insanely overwhelming when you have FOMO...

Yes! It's too much. It's honestly amazing...and I hate it. ‍�

Absolutely. It’s one reason I make a conscious effort to buy music. If I only streamed, the access is ridiculous. If I buy more music, it forces me to get to know that music.

Pethead wrote:Absolutely. It’s one reason I make a conscious effort to buy music. If I only streamed, the access is ridiculous. If I buy more music, it forces me to get to know that music.

yeah, I was referring to buying...there's just so much

crucifyd wrote:

Pethead wrote:Absolutely. It’s one reason I make a conscious effort to buy music. If I only streamed, the access is ridiculous. If I buy more music, it forces me to get to know that music.

yeah, I was referring to buying...there's just so much

My limited budget helps there.

One thing I forgot to mention - in the very early days of CCM up to the early to mid 80s, when an artist or a special guest speaker came to a Church or a Church sponsored theater, the audience would give a love offering and they would get an evening of music. Can crowd funding for a new project or patreon be considered the same thing? Any thoughts?