The things I disagree with Trump on(and some MAGAites)

As a MAGAite, I thought it would be interesting to mention a few things I disagree with Trump and/or some MAGAites on, while still remaining a MAGAite, highlighting that one does not need to agree with everything their side or *tribe* does, says, or believes, and why it is a moral/ethical duty to challenge ones own side or tribe when they see it dooing something wrong or ethically or philosophically questionable.
To open a discussion on being MAGA but expressing what a supporter does not agree upon and on the concept of dissent within ones owns ranks and why its important.

Here is a few things I disagree with Trump and/or some elements of MAGA on.

- I disagree with his evangelical Christian theolog. But I don't care if he is such or anyone one. I just disagree is all.
That said he did recently pass some bill to protect Christian youths and kids right to pray in school. Which, of course, isn't the issue with me. The issue is that he had some kids/students in the White House when he passed the bill having them talk to the media cameras there about why they felt persecuted for getting in trouble at school for dooing open prayers at public school.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most if not all public schools allow things like Christian youth meetings at lunch hour headed by representatives of youth for christ/etc? I remember when I was in high school and attended such meetings myself.
It seems to me they were only getting a little push back for doing prayer meetings and preaching outside of that context.
This also would not be an issue in my opinion if not for the probable double standards the Christian student kidsz(and their YFC leaders, and their parents and churches,etc) would likely freak out themselves if a group of nonchristian of some other religion(or non) did the exact same thing. Muslim, hindu, Buddhist? But especially if it was a group of satanist or wuccan/neo pagan or new age or atheist youths for example.
I'm sure they'd freak the hell out if that happened, but they act persecuted if they arent allowed to do it?
Hmmmm....
Personally I don't think religion of any sort(this includes atheists ...and even Deists like myself) has ANY place AT ALL in public schools in any capacity, or it would be preferable if kids and teachers/staff were to leave their personal beliefs on such outside the school(aside of course from private conversations between individual students or individual staff with each other, and staff perhaps with OLDER students in a limited capacity). But everyone has to have their special beliefs and identity groups in school if even just lunch hour meets,etc, it would be best if they didn't but its not a big deal if they do I guess.
But none should be dooing big group prayers or group prosalatyzing...ANY belief(or unbelief) outside of that context. But it seems Christians want their kids of any age to be able to so so but they all freak out if its students or staff of some other...especially certain(we know which ones especially) belief group, and I hope Trumps favouritism from his presidential podium for Christian kidsz(or kids of christians) before and above others does concern me...a little.

-Trump has tried to put forth laws that make it illegal to burn the American flag...for up to a years imprisonment and/or hefty fines.
I STRONGLY disagree with this and in fact oppose the motion/idea.
Except of course if a person or group of persons burns someone else's property flag of course(but even then disproportionate fines and disproportionate jail time is absurd)., if they buy it themselves and then burn it to make some sort of political statement of one sort or another or even just for the lulls of offending others by dooing so...them no jail and no fine. To do so infringing on their 1st ammendment rights and god/nature given right to freedom of speech and of nonviolent expression,
...and no I'm not saying I support flag burning, that's not the point. I don't support it, but nor do I think it is a crime or even especially egregious(slightly so maybe).

- Trump has put forth policy/legal motions to expand the meaning of *anti-semitism* to include criticism of Israel state policies or actions(as if Israel never does or says anything wrong as if it's pure as the driven snow) and/or of the ideology of even hard Zionism(an ideology founded by the Rothschilds btw, as was Israel's recreation in 48..or was it 47? It's recreation was founded by the pen and edict of *lord* Jacob Rothschild...who is provably evil as hell and who did this so he could control and manipulate Israel and jews for his and his fams interests and agendas. Does saying this make me *anti-semitic* and committing a crime? Especially since I do support Israel's right to exist nonetheless.?).
Especially on college campuses.
I think this is absurd stretching out of the meaning of anti-semitism, like the left's stretching out the meanings of racism, sexism and misogyny, homophobia, literal nazi, fascist, etc.. an infringement on 1st amendment rights and God/nature given natural right to freedom of opinion/though/conscience and speech/expression.
Even though as I said I actually support Israel's right to exist (and right to self-determination, though it is pertinent to point out they have little of that right from the recreation of Israel due to the *lord* Jacob Rothschild and his fams controlling hand over it) ad the quasi secular , somewhat diverse and tolerant, quasi-multi cultural jewish liberal democracy state that it is, the only example of such in the middle east.

- His, well not so much Trump himself but elements of the MAGA movement and QAnon(which those elements hang o its every claim and word like gospel truth) and Qs and their and many(not all) of Trumps supporters/voters raising the insane spectre and witch hunty hysteria of the satanic panic again(though aspects of the theory are true, the truths are misconstrued, misrepresented, and exaggerated by some of them including Q, not so much by Trump himself).
It especially pains me to say this because I have been a Q supporter since it started, and do appreciate much of the information it has provided(and many, not all, of the questions) and the overall work it has done. But Q and many Q supporters are simply incorrect about the witch hunty hysterical satanic panic claims it/thet make and put forth(not completely wrong about elite evils or about some occultism amongst soms of, not all, the elites, but they get their occultisms mixed up and conflate it all as *satanism* and/or *luciferianism* and make sweeping claims and generalizations of most or all the elites and most or all the MSM, celebrities, academia,etc, all the establishment institutions and corporations, etc., and most or all marxists are *satanist devil worshipping child sacrificing pedophiles*, ...no good can come of this lazy witch hunty hysteria and the fallacious false equivocations of it). And furthermore insinuating that these elite devil worshipping baby sacrificing andrenochrome drinking pedophile satanists have agents in every level of society from top to bottom, suggesting that ALL satanists and other occultists and even pagans and new agers and othersz(who are somehow *satanists*) commit these horrible crimes and that it's part and partial of these paths and all their adherents at every level to be psychopathic baby sacrificing, a andrenochrome drinking, pedophile murderers. In every institution of society right down to schools and your next door neighbors, an also equivocating this and these with Marxism and even with *liberalism*(which they strawman and conflate with neomarxist and progressivism....and devil worship)
Have we've learned nothing from the horror show facade that was the 80s/90s satanic panic...and other witch hunts beforehand people?
Nothing good and very little truth and lots of hysteria, false accusations and witch hunts and innocent lives and reputations can come from this road people.

That is what I disagree with Trump and/or some MAGA supporters and Q on, while still being one of this movement nonetheless at the same time.

I may discuss later about the neccecity of challenging ones own side...as a principle. But now its bed time.
Later.

Thoughts? Anything other MAGAites here disagree with Trump and/or elements of the MAGA crowds on? What? Why?
Later gators

Also MANY MAGAites and sometimes Trumo himself seem to be obsessed with this false idea that America is or was meant to be and should be a specifically *Christian nation*(ie. Theocracy, whether hard or soft theocracy), and that the founding fathers were Christians intending America to be such and this idea that the founding documents somehow back this idea up(which...they don't) and point to the mottos *one nation under god*, *in god we trust* ...which firstly have little to nothing to do specifically with christianity only and secondly are not constitutional and that were made up several decades after founding America(added to the dollar) and the other made up in the 1950s as a reaction to atheist stalinist communist USSR.
For more on this, see the post, thread I created in the general discussions area under the following title-
*Maga/MAGA anti-nwo and america the *Christian nation*
Thanks.

In short I obviously disagree with Trump and/or *Christian nationalists* in the MAGA movement on this. And frankly I resent them trying to monopolize this movement and revolution for their desires to create a theocracy.

I disagree with Trump on gay marriage/unions...and that's about it.

BaleMaster wrote:I disagree with Trump on gay marriage/unions...and that's about it.

That's one of the things I agree with him on. Being a libertarian.
I like that he's fine with it and fine with existence of homosexuality but at the same time is against the mainstream(progressivist SJW left)LGBTQia*otherkinzezieAbcxyz123etc Orwellian cult and their totalitarian regime. That he has a well reasoned balance in his approach to the issue.
Just like I do.

As far as the issue of homosexual marriage goes. I'm not sure why anyone has an issue with it if they believe in the constitution and in liberty and America and the west being free and in equality of opportunity/under law.
Clearly if churches/fundamentalist Christian conservatives believe that homosexuality is a sin and they don't want to marry homosexuals in their institutions...they have that right and no one has a right to force them to or to demonize them for their personal freedom of concience/belief. Same with other more fundamentalist religions such as sects of Islam/muslims or orthodox judaism/orthodox jews...and others.

Thar said. Why shouldn't homosexuals have a right to marry under law if they are using nonreligious/secular venues or marrying under the auspices of another religion that is ok with homosexuality or even liberal churches/mosques/synagogues/etc?
You don't have to agree with it. But you also cannot dictate that homosexual couples who wish to spend their lives together in a monogamous relationship with the same legal rights/privileges that heterosexual and/or religious marriages enjoy under the law. As they don't have the right to force you to agree with them or force you to be the ones marrying them in your temples/etc if you don't want to.

Marriage is an ancient tradition that transcends Christian and even abrahamic religion/cultures. Christian's and/or abrahamics don't have and never had a monopoly on it nor the legal institution of it.

Furthermore, in your holy books even in the bible...there are multiple cases of prophets and kings of Jehovah(and/or Allah,etc) having multiple wives...polygamy, and yet they were allowed this , the god if those scriptures did not condemn them for it and even called them righteous and holy.
Why is that acceptable, but two individual monogamous homosexuals getting married isn't? You'd think that Christians and other revealed religionists would be for monogamous homosexuals getting married rather than not being married. You'd think that they'd at least not oppose them having secular or other religions marriages.

Given that marriage has been more a vain money wasting ceremonial thing and about certain legal privileges...moreso than religion, for a very long time now, and that for a very long time now in most cultures including the west and Christian cultures divircechas been allowed. Its interesting that conservative Christians are more tolerant of and accepting of heterosexuals(Christian or not) having 2 or 3 marriages during their adult lives but not for a homosexual couple who perhaps get married once and remain married to the same partner for life. Makes no sense.

Marriage is nothing more than a legality and ceremonial thing.
First aeons in many cultures and even in some eras of judaism and christianity ...marriage was basically just a couple being dedicated to each other for life, if they did this privately and had sex...they were considered a married couple regardless of whether they went through all the vain money wasting ceremonial stuff or signed legal documents.
Marriage is simply two people and bodies or souls joined together

And a religious person might argue..*ok, perhaps, but marriage is also about procreation and raising kids*. Really? Is that why many Christians and other religious people don't procreate? Is it mandatory to Christians and other revealed religionists that *married* couples procreate or else they arw just sinning? For centuries in most Christian and other revealed religionists cultures this was actually the case...if a couple *married*(whether under legally and/or ceremonially or not) they were expected to procreate if not immediately then soon after.
Why is it that modern fundamentalist conservative Christians/jews/muslims/etc are ok with the absconding of those rules and traditions and even with divorce and multiple marriages...if not for their own religions followers then at least for those not of their religions who get married, but not for committed monogamous homosexual couples?

Many of you seem also to have more tolerance and forgiveness for copulation or fornication outside marriage...including for your brethren and certainly for teenagers who are just discovering their human sexuality, than for committed monogamous homosexuals getting married(even if it has nothing to do with your sects marrying them...even if it is a completely secular marriage and/or marriage via some other religion or sect that is ok with it and the legal documents signing privelages part)?
It makes no sense. It all seems arbitrary.

I remember when I was a born again Christian many years ago, I was opposed to homosexuality and homosexual marriage both. Then I started expanding my understanding and these variables and it made less and less sense. At one point I attended a local protest being held by my fellow Christians protesting moves to legalize homosexual marriage, held outside a local MLA or mayors office. And there was also a peaceful group of counter protesters acrossed the street who were demonstrating in favor of the motion to legalize it.
I at the time still believed homosexuality was a sin, but I had expanded my research and understanding of the history and nature of *marriage* and of legalities and philosophically.
I went and joined my fellow Christians protest, everyone had their sighs and such, and I had mine. I can't recall exactly the wording on my sign, but one side stated a biblical passage saying homosexuality was a sinful thing, but the other side stated a passage indicating that Christians should not try and control secular law and the state, that both things were sinful,
It was a balanced approach I thought.

Well, some of my fellow believers(most of which I knew from my churches,etc) reacted HARSHLY against me for it(whereas the pro gay marriage people on the other side were far more tolerant towards me for my balanced approach even though my sign clearly stated and I stated I believed homosexuality was a sinful thing)...as I tried to be a diplomatic bridge between the two sides.
Well, one of the Christian fundamentalist leaders there who knew me personally...got violently forceful with me...forcibly took my sign from me and told me I'd get it back after the demonstration(I never did, afterwards I found it sticking up out of a garbage can in the back alley),
Anyways the news were there and were intrigued with my approach, and interviewed me. In the interview I stated that while I thought *it was a sin for homosexuality to exist...so is self righteous christianity trying to control secular law*.
After that days events and seing the gay lobby there being more tolerant towards me for my anti-homosexuality but pro-equal marriage stance than my fellow Christians were towards me. I was disgusted with the phariseeacal attitudes and behaviour and the outright bullying and dishonesty I faced from me fellow believers...stealing me sign from me...telling me I'd get it back afterwards and never getting it back but finding it tossed in a garbage can.
This event altered my life profoundly. It was ONE of the catalysts(not the only one)for me several months later denouncing the faith and becoming a Deist, and left me pretty angry at right wing politicized, controlling fundamentalist christianity and religion,
If they wanted to preserve the faith of their fellow Christians who are more reasonable and less self righteously phariseeacal and reach nonchristian for their lord, they did a pretty piss poor job, only convincing me as a Christian(and probably others like me) to say if this is Christianity...then to hell with christianity, and cause the *unsaved* to remain so,
I mean I couldn't wrap my head around it, I was explicitly stating homosexuality was sinful but I was being fair in also stating that faux Christians...who were really totalitarian theocratic control freaks were also being just as sinful. I was not saying anything against the faith itself or all Christians(I was one of them) nor was I saying homosexuality was morally ok with bibkegod either.
But the gay lobby there treated me with utmost respect, and my fellow Christian evangelicals there treated me and anyone that dared disagree with their approach even in the slightest like friggin dirt.

If I was still Christian today I'd still hold that opinion. If I was still an evangelical Christian and still held homosexuality was sinful I'd still say that just as,..if not more sinful...is self righteous phariseeacal control freak theocratic christianity trying to control secular law and society and maintain some kind of unchristlike theocracy that us also unconstitutional and hypocritical.

There is no reason why Christians or other revealed religionists cannot hold their opinion that homosexuality is sinful without having a pet peeve bias especially against it above other sins,...including ones they themselves frequently engage in and make excuses for their hypocrisy m and why they also can't at the same time recognize that they have no right to demand to control secular laws and the whole of society(including the legal and/ceremonial institution of *marriage*).

That said, imo marriage is a load of bull anyways (for a number of reasons), I don't mean human coupling and family procreation, I mean the vain money wasting ceremonial aspect and the legal aspect(ie. Govt being involved in it). But human coupling and family procreation ...particularly the nuclear family...I'm all for.

And ya know what, I think Trump *gets* this too, which is why i think he us ok with *gay marriage*...as a equality under law/of opportunity thing.
For that I give him great credit .