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Post by Pro-Zak on Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:48 pm

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Post by Andreas89 on Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:12 am

I don't need a news article for that. We used to be some kind of (nation wide group of) family churches, and I didn't have to look further than my own family. The culprit died years ago though.
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Post by Pro-Zak on Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:22 am

Andreas89 wrote:I don't need a news article for that. We used to be some kind of (nation wide group of) family churches, and I didn't have to look further than my own family. The culprit died years ago though.

Not sure I follow...?
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Post by Kerrick on Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:05 pm

The "T" in the "TULIP" five points of Calvinism sums it up well: man is Totally depraved (and therefore in desperate need of a Savior).
https://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm

Calvinist Corner wrote:Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin.

The doctrine of Total Depravity is derived from scriptures that reveal human character: Man’s heart is evil (Mark 7:21-23) and sick Jer. 17:9). Man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:20). He does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12). He cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). He is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15). And, is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3). The Calvinist asks the question, "In light of the scriptures that declare man’s true nature as being utterly lost and incapable, how is it possible for anyone to choose or desire God?" The answer is, "He cannot. Therefore God must predestine."

Calvinism also maintains that because of our fallen nature we are born again not by our own will but God’s will (John 1:12-13); God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29); faith is the work of God (John 6:28-29); God appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48); and God predestines (Eph. 1:1-11; Rom. 8:29; 9:9-23).

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Post by Pro-Zak on Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:08 pm

Once again I'm a bit puzzled at the responses here, what does this story have anything to do w/Calvinism? Though I suppose folks read their presupposition into any story or text, one could just as easily see Arminianism here, or, shocking as it may be to some, another view that exists and has existed long before either of those men were born! My main reason for posting this was to show the absurdity that many claim for the reason of these types of atrocities that been widely publicized in the Catholic Church, namely "forced celibacy" in the priesthood. John MacArthur has said as much, that this "unnatural demand" upon men has led to the sexual perversions in the CC, patently absurd! From this story, and all of history, we see all manner of sexual perversions committed by those who are married, many w/children. The real problem here is lack of self control, in thought and deed, and in many cases, lack of personal conversion.
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Post by Kerrick on Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:29 pm

My point was to affirm yours: that sin - and sinful men - exist(s) everywhere, regardless of denomination.  Beyond the surface level alleged reasons (such as priests' oath to celibacy as you mentioned), the root issue is man's own depravity due to sin.  And that is worldwide, across all denominations and religions, in every single person who ever walked on this earth besides One.  The first point of Calvinism just happens to sum it up well, though it's not a belief exclusive to Calvinism.

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Post by Pro-Zak on Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:38 pm

I'll buy that for a dollar!


Last edited by Sabbatharian on Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Kerrick on Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:40 pm

sunny

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Post by Pro-Zak on Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:18 pm

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is a scandal from a guy I used to like to listen to...

http://julieroys.com/mancow-airs-shocking-comments-james-macdonald-response/?fbclid=IwAR1bMwfL6kupN6sZiF4Zy4c5iwP97Hjdowa0S4r38IVKx5_ZZ7UzWR3W89c
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Post by Andreas89 on Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:03 am

Sabbatharian wrote:
Andreas89 wrote:I don't need a news article for that. We used to be some kind of (nation wide group of) family churches, and I didn't have to look further than my own family. The culprit died years ago though.

Not sure I follow...?
I read my comment again and I see that I was terrible at bringing over the point I was trying to make, I'm sorry Razz

My point is that it happens in all christian denomination, no matter how big and organized (RCC) or small (families) they are. What makes it even more evil than when it happens in other institutions is that we are supposed to know better, as Kerrick already pointed out by mentioning total depravity.
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Post by exo on Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:17 am

Every time I see a “religious leader” embroiled in some sort of sex scandal, I can’t help but reflect on David. King of Israel, anointed by Samuel at God’s direction, referred to as “a man after God’s own heart”.....and he sent a man to die on the front lines of a war simply so he could get a crack at the guy’s wife.


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Post by Pro-Zak on Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:53 pm

exo wrote:Every time I see a “religious leader” embroiled in some sort of sex scandal, I can’t help but reflect  on David.  King of Israel, anointed by Samuel at God’s direction, referred to as “a man after God’s own heart”.....and he sent a man to die on the front lines of a war simply so he could get a crack at the guy’s wife.


Some of it does, but here and the lion's share of what has been going on in the CC does not. We are talking about decades of the abuse of children and cover up, this is gross wickedness on a massive scale.
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Post by crucifyd on Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:35 am

that's what I was thinking. David truly repented.

most of the time when one of these scandals happens as stated it goes on for a long time and I often wonder if they are truly sorry and repentant or just sorry they got caught...
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Post by alldatndensum on Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:33 am

crucifyd wrote:that's what I was thinking. David truly repented.

most of the time when one of these scandals happens as stated it goes on for a long time and I often wonder if they are truly sorry and repentant or just sorry they got caught...



this.  If you knew you it was going on and helped cover it, you are guilty of aiding and abetting a criminal AND gross negligence.  If either the RCC or the SBA are truly sorry that this has happened, they need to help with investigations and see to it that all are brought to justice.  Yes, it could hurt attendance and giving, but such widespread cover-ups will be more damaging in my opinion.  Helping authorities to "take out the trash" would help bolster confidence in either denomination as people will feel more like their kids are safe in those churches.  I am a SBA pastor, and this would make me wary of putting my kids or teens into their programs because of how widespread this seems when the media speaks of it.  It is massive as is, but the media will make it sound like every RCC or SBA church out there has someone molesting kids which is not the case.
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Post by Pro-Zak on Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:56 am

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Post by Driven on Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:26 pm

Here in Quebec, there's a trial underway for a disgraced Baptist pastor who physically and mentally abused the students in a private Christian school that he ran - two schools, actually. There was partial coverup by the people around him, and when he had to close down the first school he wasn't prevented from operating another. A friend of mine is involved in the case and it's not good.

May we Christians learn to not simply cover up abuse because "we need to forgive" and "the Church solves its matters internally". It's more than that.
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Post by Pro-Zak on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:49 pm

Driven wrote:Here in Quebec, there's a trial underway for a disgraced Baptist pastor who physically and mentally abused the students in a private Christian school that he ran - two schools, actually. There was partial coverup by the people around him, and when he had to close down the first school he wasn't prevented from operating another. A friend of mine is involved in the case and it's not good.

May we Christians learn to not simply cover up abuse because "we need to forgive" and "the Church solves its matters internally". It's more than that.

Indeed, this is part of the false compassion Bishop Sheen warned about decades ago that was creeping into society...
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Post by Driven on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:55 pm

I can't say I fully agree with Sheen, not that I think he's wrong either, I'm still processing. In the case I mentioned, there was definitely a "give them another chance" mentality even when there was no evidence of repentance.

I'm trying to figure out how I feel about the correctional system these days. There's a lot going on, where I'm questioning the goals of the prison system, the role of rehab and healing, and so on. It's still up in the air.

It hurts to see unrepentant Christians, or those who claim that name.
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