Undercover - Balance of power

Been listening to some of my older cds. I've always liked this album.

Top shelf, probably in my top ten all time!

Loved this way back in the day....diamond in the rough.

I haven't listened to this in years. I remember it being very dark.

Powerful album...always gets to me, especially the second to last song.

One of Undercover's best efforts. I agree though, very dark.

i have their Anthology and "balance of power" is the only record i like from them.
It's totally different from the rest of their catalog. 
This had enough metal bite to lure me in. It's a very unique sound. Very dark and gloomy but the guitars are crisp yet heavy. 
If your looking for something different it's worth a listen.
I think of Danzig when i listen to this, i don't know why, maybe it's the alternative heaviness.

I don't think of Danzig at all when I listen to this!

I have this, someplace,....I have to get it out...

I was just reading last night about Ric Alba who I think was in both Undercover and Alter Boys and his secret life as a gay who married a girl and is now living with his male partner (obviously brief encapsulation) . Ojo Taylor was also in this band and although I did not read of what changed him from evangelical to an atheist, I guess it reflected in the music. I was a new christian in the early 80's and was a huge fan of both Undercover and The Altar Boys. I am not saying that the music cannot continue to speak truth to us as all truth is from God. I am just trying to figure out whether their faith was genuine ever. I am not implying that Ric Alba's does not have faith (as he is says that he is still a christian), but there are many christian artists who have later came out.

If this thread should be moved somewhere else I understand. I am just trying to come to grips with why so many people I know are losing their religion...

My favorite Undercover album - love this.

nairtoons wrote:Been listening to some of my older cds. I've always liked this album.

I haven't listened to this for a long time. I got the Branded reissue CD a few years ago. I have it on LP, but don't have a turntable. Now I'm trying to remember what happened to my BoP CD as I bought it when it was originally released.

I saw them play in Sacto when this came out.

Branded is my favorite, but BoP comes in a close 2nd.

force perspective wrote:i have their Anthology and "balance of power" is the only record i like from them.
It's totally different from the rest of their catalog. 
This had enough metal bite to lure me in. It's a very unique sound. Very dark and gloomy but the guitars are crisp yet heavy. 
If your looking for something different it's worth a listen.
I think of Danzig when i listen to this, i don't know why, maybe it's the alternative heaviness.

I remember thinking that their was some Danzig influence going on.

johnnycanuck wrote:I was just reading last night about Ric Alba who I think was in both Undercover and Alter Boys and his secret life as a gay who married a girl and is now living with his male partner (obviously brief encapsulation) . Ojo Taylor was also in this band and although I did not read of what changed him from evangelical to an atheist, I guess it reflected in the music. I was a new christian in the early 80's and was a huge fan of both Undercover and The Altar Boys. I am not saying that the music cannot continue to speak truth to us as all truth is from God. I am just trying to figure out whether their faith was genuine ever. I am not implying that Ric Alba's does not have faith (as he is says that he is still a christian), but there are many christian artists who have later came out.

If this thread should be moved somewhere else I understand. I am just trying to come to grips with why so many people I know are losing their religion...

That is an observation better suited to the currently defunct theology section. It closed because we weren't nice to each other.
I'd love to engage in a conversation about this, but... let's do it right.

johnnycanuck wrote: I am just trying to figure out whether their faith was genuine ever.

Good topic question. Were we tend to get into trouble on this board is the answer to that question and it's implications. I'd say that they aren't Christians and never were. Others here would say that they no longer are Christians. And there are some here who would say that they still are Christians but aren't living it right now.

But, I think what is at the heart of the question isn't really so much as if they never, aren't now, or still are Christians but is how could they have written such soul searching songs of Christian thought and then walk away from it.

The answer would be easy and boring if we go with either they were Christians that simply walked away or they still are Christians who aren't living right because that would explain how they could write such lyrics.

The answer is more interesting if we go with the idea that they never were Christians. How could a dry well produce water?

I'm not familiar enough with Alba's lyrical contributions to talk about him, but Taylor showed a lot depth in his words.

If you have read read Taylor's blog, it's very apparent that he is a thoughtful and articulate man. So, it doesn't surprise me that even though he has turned his back on the faith claiming to be an atheist that he could pen such word in the past when he thought he had faith.

The answer for me lies in the term 'dead orthodoxy.' I meet people in church that have high doctrine but show little fruit of it. They speak of the platitudes of the faith and yet their lives could put Machiavelli to shame.

I believe that a man can ascend to an intellectual understanding and affirmation of the faith and yet still not know God. See Matthew 7:23.


All this to say that I find it fascinating that a man can come so close and yet be so far. But, don't take that for callousness, I also think of it as a great tragedy.

Sorry David for not using your proper avitar name, I could not figure out how to use the upside down exclamation on my key board. I thank you for your wise observations. I am presently struggling with this as my oldest daughter has renounced her walk with God. It happened not long after she began university; which seems to coincide with Ojo's crisis of faith. He also went through a bad divorce just before Branded and he was completely disillusioned with the brand of christianity he was in (it seemed to be the charismatic). When you begin to have a root of bitterness growing in your heart, it becomes easy to become cynical and even contrary to a belief structure you have. Couple that with taking courses that he knew full well would be anti god in their teachings...and voila! I feel that this is kind of the same thing that my daughter was immersed into - the marxist, atheistic, nihilistic, scientistic thought that permeates throughout our educational institutions.

The bible is quite plain that there can be those who embrace God for a season, but the cares and devices of the world choke out the truth so that it cannot take root. The bible also states that those who leave were never part of us for their leaving proves so.

Seeing it happen to your daughter makes it worse.

johnnycanuck wrote:Sorry David for not using your proper avitar name, I could not figure out how to use the upside down exclamation on my key board. I thank you for your wise observations. I am presently struggling with this as my oldest daughter has renounced her walk with God. It happened not long after she began university; which seems to coincide with Ojo's crisis of faith. He also went through a bad divorce just before Branded and he was completely disillusioned with the brand of christianity he was in (it seemed to be the charismatic). When you begin to have a root of bitterness growing in your heart, it becomes easy to become cynical and even contrary to a belief structure you have. Couple that with taking courses that he knew full well would be anti god in their teachings...and voila! I feel that this is kind of the same thing that my daughter was immersed into - the marxist, atheistic, nihilistic, scientistic thought that permeates throughout our educational institutions.

The bible is quite plain that there can be those who embrace God for a season, but the cares and devices of the world choke out the truth so that it cannot take root. The bible also states that those who leave were never part of us for their leaving proves so.

Seeing it happen to your daughter makes it worse.

First, I'm sorry for you for your daughter. I'll pray.

Don't worry about my name. It should be apparent that it's a depreciative form of spelling. Thus, I don't care much how it's written.

Forgive me for making another academic observation in the light of your pain, but I do find it interesting the philosophical constructs that people develop just to justify their rebellion against God. Read Taylor's blog. He's deep in it.

If it gives you any solace, I thinks it's better for people to disbelieve in God's existence then to be religious hypocrites. At least their situation is cut'n'dry. What's truly scary are the people that claim Christ, sit under gospel preaching on a regular basis and yet show by their actions that they haven't yet apprehended God's grace.

I have small children and I cringe for their souls for the ungodly attitudes they sometimes demonstrate. I take solace in knowing that God is in control. I'm asking for bread not expecting a stone. I see myself as their steward, not their owner. Their walk with God is ultimately between them and God. My job is to catechize them, love them, do my best to model godliness to them, be an example of Christ for them, and pray for them. In the end it's out of my hands and I'll give account for my own actions before God, not theirs. That's not to say that if they grow up to become great fools that it won't break my heart. I'm certain it will.

Thank you David for your kind words and prayer. I tried by His Grace to raise my children right. Unfortunately I lost a good paying job and in a pinch, to put food on the table and pay the bills, I joined the military. That meant many months away from my family, and I am sure that both my daughters resent me for it. I was not there during the most important teen years. I wish I never joined but it was the only place that I know that would hire in short notice. I also trust in the sovereignty of God, knowing that even it was a mustard seed faith that OJo, my daughter(s) and others that I know who have fallen away; God has bought them with a great price and they are no longer their own. I can remember vividly the way God worked salvation in me, it was if the hounds of heaven were after me, relentless. I have confidence that His Spirit, though grieved, will still convict, even the most hardened heart.

I still can't understand why He continues to make Himself known to me, even when I can't see what His plan is. I just keep reading His word - I think that the reason that many lose their way is that they don't search the scriptures to see what God wants to do in us and for us. If we have a problem with our car, we search maintenance manuals, watch youtube videos and as for help on forums unto we find the solution; but when it comes to working through a spiritual situation, many avoid God's word. His word is the only way he communicates. If you want to hear God speak - open your bible, and read it aloud...

johnnycanuck wrote:Thank you David for your kind words and prayer. I tried by His Grace to raise my children right. Unfortunately I lost a good paying job and in a pinch, to put food on the table and pay the bills, I joined the military. That meant many months away from my family, and I am sure that both my daughters resent me for it. I was not there during the most important teen years. I wish I never joined but it was the only place that I know that would hire in short notice. I also trust in the sovereignty of God, knowing that even it was a mustard seed faith that OJo, my daughter(s) and others that I know who have fallen away; God has bought them with a great price and they are no longer their own. I can remember vividly the way God worked salvation in me, it was if the hounds of heaven were after me, relentless. I have confidence that His Spirit, though grieved, will still convict, even the most hardened heart.

I still can't understand why He continues to make Himself known to me, even when I can't see what His plan is. I just keep reading His word - I think that the reason that many lose their way is that they don't search the scriptures to see what God wants to do in us and for us. If we have a problem with our car, we search maintenance manuals, watch youtube videos and as for help on forums unto we find the solution; but when it comes to working through a spiritual situation, many avoid God's word. His word is the only way he communicates. If you want to hear God speak - open your bible, and read it aloud...

His grace has been persistent in my life too.

"We love greatly the blessings of God. While God we love little."

This is the mystery of life that the one thing that should be the object of our greatest desire tend to feel like a burden. It's amazing the power that sin has over humanity. Can you think of any better relationship that a man should want to have and foster than the one with his creator? And yet, we fight Him so that we can play with a proverbial stick in the mud.

Again, God is in control. Pray expecting bread.


I've thought of that situation that you went through where I might have to work long hours or be away just to provide food. Your story is a reminder that I need to do me best to try an avoid that. Right now by God's grace my wife stays at home with them and home-schools.

Easily their best, in my opinion...and VERY hard to come by now at a decent price.  



Arttie

johnnycanuck wrote:I was just reading last night about Ric Alba who I think was in both Undercover and Alter Boys and his secret life as a gay who married a girl and is now living with his male partner (obviously brief encapsulation) . Ojo Taylor was also in this band and although I did not read of what changed him from evangelical to an atheist, I guess it reflected in the music. I was a new christian in the early 80's and was a huge fan of both Undercover and The Altar Boys. I am not saying that the music cannot continue to speak truth to us as all truth is from God. I am just trying to figure out whether their faith was genuine ever. I am not implying that Ric Alba's does not have faith (as he is says that he is still a christian), but there are many christian artists who have later came out.

If this thread should be moved somewhere else I understand. I am just trying to come to grips with why so many people I know are losing their religion...

I'm very sad to hear this, I did not know about either of them. I absolutely believe And once saved always saved, pardon the cliché. By his testimony. For example, I absolutely believe that Roger Martinez is a Christian, Despite his current situation.

And yes, branded is undercovers best musical album, although I like the lyrics of the early ones better

Noahsfaith wrote: I absolutely believe And once saved always saved, pardon the cliché. By his testimony. For example, I absolutely believe that Roger Martinez is a Christian, Despite his current situation.

Way back when I walked into a Christian bookstore and asked the clerk if there was anything w/a Sabbath vibe to it, darker than the hair bands but not thrash or straight up metal. He recommended this, I was blown away!

the only good album by them if memory serves.

stepcousin wrote:the only good album by them if memory serves.

Depending on your taste of course. Truth is they put out several, but I think this is their best. The last one was hardly worth noting...