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Amp sims?

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Post by Grindboy Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:43 pm

Like probably anybody who would see this, I do some (very low-level) home recording stuff. I just moved half-way across the country and decided that it was a great opportunity to turn my amp into money, so I did. I'm maybe coming up on working on something to record again now, and I read about amp sims being maybe just as good as live amps, but I don't know a thing about them. Is there any good place to start? I would love free, but can spend some if I need to. Anything I need to know? I'm not super tech-savvy nor super music-production savvy, but can usually muddle through when I have enough motivation. 

Thank you to anybody who takes the time to reply!

edit: would be for death metal type stuff if that makes a difference

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Post by Sevenoneself Mon May 30, 2022 9:14 am

I wanted to get into this as well, but did not have much money.

I started out with this little guy: Fender Micro D.I. Pedal, Black – The Guitar Boutique. I bought it used for $20. It has one amp sim with no settings options. It sold me on the idea of Amp sim. I still use it on my pedalboard as a DI box, but not as an amp sim.

For the album I recently did, I only used the stock amp sims in Reaper. Very happy with the results.

Anything quality and free can be found at Bedroom Producers Blog - Freeware For Musicians!. I used some bass amp sims from here.

I finally purchased a SansAmp2 and use it on my pedalboard so I don't have to bring an amp to church.  It's not as good as a real tube amp, but it does the trick really well.
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Post by Constantine Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:56 pm

I too am doing some low-level recording on my phone into the Dolby On app, but want to start making some real recordings.  But I find the whole guitar > audio interface > DAW / Laptop thing confusing because I'm not sure where to start and don't want to spend money and be unhappy with the results. 

That said, I currently have a few amp sims on some portable amps, including the ones on a Fender Champion 20 which are pretty decent.  I also have a Joyo American Sound pedal which is a Fender amp sim and is pretty good and very cheap.

I've been doing a lot of research and watching videos.  I considered a Strymon Iridium cab sim pedal but upon further investigation thought it sounded sterile and brittle.  The new UA amp sim pedals are much better but expensive for what is essentially one amp sim (around $400 a pop).  

I know people that swear by the Positive Grid Spark 40 or the Boss Katana Mk-II, but to get the good sounds it is all dial in / software-driven.

Haven't used any software or plug-ins yet but that may solve my dilemma, I am just still resisting being tethered to a laptop or phone.   I probably need to move in that direction though.
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Post by Jbassr Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:10 am

The GK Bass amp sim is great. Even the LE version sounds really good. I use the pro version. Never tried the (AmpLion) guitar amp one. There are youtube videos on it.
https://shop.audified.com/products/amplion-free-1
https://shop.audified.com/products/live-guitar-and-bass-bundle-le
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Post by Sevenoneself Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:51 am

Constantine wrote:I too am doing some low-level recording on my phone into the Dolby On app, but want to start making some real recordings.  But I find the whole guitar > audio interface > DAW / Laptop thing confusing because I'm not sure where to start and don't want to spend money and be unhappy with the results. 

That said, I currently have a few amp sims on some portable amps, including the ones on a Fender Champion 20 which are pretty decent.  I also have a Joyo American Sound pedal which is a Fender amp sim and is pretty good and very cheap.

I've been doing a lot of research and watching videos.  I considered a Strymon Iridium cab sim pedal but upon further investigation thought it sounded sterile and brittle.  The new UA amp sim pedals are much better but expensive for what is essentially one amp sim (around $400 a pop).  

I know people that swear by the Positive Grid Spark 40 or the Boss Katana Mk-II, but to get the good sounds it is all dial in / software-driven.

Haven't used any software or plug-ins yet but that may solve my dilemma, I am just still resisting being tethered to a laptop or phone.   I probably need to move in that direction though.

It looks like you're able to spend quite a bit of money on this, so the options I presented are probably not what you're looking for.

By adding reverb and delay, and by doubling the guitar tracks and using different sims on each, amp sims can be made to sound really good. I'm almost positive you'd be happy with the Strymon by doing this.

I was also very confused about signal chain when I started recording about 6-7 years ago. Although I know nothing about phone interfaces, I have experience with audio interfaces into Windows computers. I think you'll find it quite simple once you dive in. Most $100-$200 interfaces will do the trick. 

The benefit of recording a dry guitar sound is that you can apply different digital sims to your guitar and see what they sound like. Although I have NOT done this yet, many guitarists record a dry guitar sound while monitoring with a pedal Amp Sim (so it sounds like the real thing in their ear!).
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Post by Xid Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:21 pm

If you're looking for a plugin, I recently picked up the Metallurgy pack from Line 6: https://line6.com/metallurgy-guitar-amp-plugin/

I use it in Reaper and it's pretty cool.


Last edited by Xid on Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by guitarhoops Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:43 am

Try this link. It is a free sim. 
https://ml-sound-lab.com/products/amped-roots
Here is another one. On this site you can get a free IR loader. You need it with this amp sim.
https://www.stltones.com/pages/emissary-downloads
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Post by FAIRWARNING Sat Aug 20, 2022 11:00 pm

I live in a 2 bedroom duplex and recording live instruments is not going to sit well with the neighbors. I purchased Overloud amp sim and have had good success with it. It won't break the bank either. Drums were a little more pricey with EZ Drummer 2 . Bass, Ampeg SVT suite was a good puchase but well more than I spent on Overloud. To hear the results, check out our new video on youtube.

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Post by Sevenoneself Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:02 pm

Does anyone have experience with the pedal versions of amp and speaker sims? I'd like to upgrade from my SansAmp 2, but all the name brands are incredibly expensive - like over $500 CA. These include the ones from Strymon, Boss, Walrus Audio and Line 6, not to mention the incredibly expensive ones from Kemper. I've generally stayed away from the knock-off brands like Mooer and Nux, but it seems they have the only ones that are in my price range.

So...anyone have experience with these?
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Post by Grindboy Thu Apr 13, 2023 9:54 am

I think this will be the conclusion of the matter for me for anybody who cares or comes across this in the future. I played around with some but wasn't completely happy, tried recording some live, which I thought sounded good but was horrible once uploaded to the internet and played on a phone or something. So I went back to sims. . . took some playing but I ended up with a sound that I don't LOVE but is definitely acceptable, and cost me $0. I used Ignite stuff, the Emissary amp with the Nad IR cabinet simulator (which was essential), and the ProF.E.T. stompbox in front of it, which IMO gave a far better sound than the dirty channel on the amp. All available and reasonably simple learning curve here.

Ended up sounding like this:


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Post by Sevenoneself Thu Apr 13, 2023 4:52 pm

Grindboy wrote:I think this will be the conclusion of the matter for me for anybody who cares or comes across this in the future. I played around with some but wasn't completely happy, tried recording some live, which I thought sounded good but was horrible once uploaded to the internet and played on a phone or something. So I went back to sims. . . took some playing but I ended up with a sound that I don't LOVE but is definitely acceptable, and cost me $0. I used Ignite stuff, the Emissary amp with the Nad IR cabinet simulator (which was essential), and the ProF.E.T. stompbox in front of it, which IMO gave a far better sound than the dirty channel on the amp. All available and reasonably simple learning curve here.

Ended up sounding like this:

Is that your song? Playing/Mixing/Writing/Singing?? It's fantastic!

I'm planning to start recording another album this fall or early spring. I'll definitely look at the Ignite stuff. I haven't decided how to record guitars yet. I've read pros and cons of 1) recording clean and adding all effects and amps/cabs while mixing or 2) recording the finished product. Because of my low quality recording area I will probably end up recording clean or at least without an amp, in which case the Ignite sims would be very useful.
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Post by Sevenoneself Thu Apr 13, 2023 4:54 pm

I did forget to post my latest update: About a month ago I bit the bullet and purchased the Strymon Iridium to replace my Sansamp G2. So far I'm super happy with it. Super happy! 

I mostly play in church so it is not efficient for me to bring along a laptop and run my pedalboard through software sims. I want my sound to go direct into the PA right from my pedalboard.
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Post by Constantine Thu Apr 13, 2023 7:37 pm

Well I have officially dipped my toe into the world of multi-effects modelling pedals with a Sonicake Matribox, which was just released about a month ago.  Very inexpensive and versatile.  I did not want to shell out yet for a Strymon Iridium, or something like the Two Notes Revolt or DSM Humboldt Simplifier.  

For now, I am learning on this thing.  The presets need editing because most of them are not good, although some are.  But once the presets are tweaked, some of them sound really good.  I'd say this pedal is more for the metal player, but you can also get some good rock tones.  Although I've not been able to dial in a good blues or jazz tone yet.

I'm running it through a compressor and then into the return jack in the back of my amp.  The compressor really helps to smooth out the tone and volume, as my compressor has tone and volume controls, while those same parameters in the Matribox are a bit harder to control.

Anyway, it can do direct recording into a DAW so once I pick a DAW I can try that.
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Post by Grindboy Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:08 pm

Sevenoneself wrote:
Grindboy wrote:I think this will be the conclusion of the matter for me for anybody who cares or comes across this in the future. I played around with some but wasn't completely happy, tried recording some live, which I thought sounded good but was horrible once uploaded to the internet and played on a phone or something. So I went back to sims. . . took some playing but I ended up with a sound that I don't LOVE but is definitely acceptable, and cost me $0. I used Ignite stuff, the Emissary amp with the Nad IR cabinet simulator (which was essential), and the ProF.E.T. stompbox in front of it, which IMO gave a far better sound than the dirty channel on the amp. All available and reasonably simple learning curve here.

Ended up sounding like this:

Is that your song? Playing/Mixing/Writing/Singing?? It's fantastic!

I'm planning to start recording another album this fall or early spring. I'll definitely look at the Ignite stuff. I haven't decided how to record guitars yet. I've read pros and cons of 1) recording clean and adding all effects and amps/cabs while mixing or 2) recording the finished product. Because of my low quality recording area I will probably end up recording clean or at least without an amp, in which case the Ignite sims would be very useful.

Heh, well thank you, I try to do my best, but kind of gave up on really making great music when I realized that Sympathy and August Burns Red (probably 10 years younger then me!) were running laps around anything that I could imagine. I'll never be able create anything that comes within a million miles musicaly of Nile etc., So now I shoot for fun/funny. I'm not even the best comedy metal guy on the board, if you've heard Timoratus (sp?). All of it is posted over in the Promotion Palace room, my satisfaction with the results is varied both in music and lyrics, but I have fun.


Back on topic, yeah it's strange to me playing in straight from my guitar plugged into the audio interface into my laptop, and can't even hear the guitar (probably because I don't know what I'm doing). It's even stranger when you play it back and it sounds not at all metal, and strangest yet when you throw on the plugin, and now it DOES sound metal, but you can adjust the tone however you want after the fact. Just bizarre after of course being used to recording and then that's what it's going to sound like, but it has it's advantages. 

Beyond that, Seven and Constantine I barely even understand what you're talking about! I'm so cheap.

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Post by Sevenoneself Fri Apr 14, 2023 2:25 am

No worries, Grind. A few years ago I had no understanding of any of this, as it's fairly new technology and is rapidly expanding even month by month. It took me almost a year of researching to realize that there is a difference between amp sims and cabinet/speaker sims!

Constantine, that pedal looks awesome! I've never heard of SonicCake, but I'm going to look into them. Like I said before, I wasn't willing to spend much money early on in my search for amp sims. In fact, my first one was the pedal pictured below--I bought it for $20 second-hand and the only control on it was to turn the speaker sim on or off! Now that I've used them for a few years I know what I'm looking for.

Grind, you mentioned recording clean. What professional recording engineers often do is record the guitar clean, but give the guitarist a monitor that includes distortion/fx so that he/she can hear properly. I've never been able to do that yet b/c I cheaped out on an audio interface and it didn't have that monitor function. Next album...

Amp sims? Ae00-1571
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Post by alldatndensum Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:27 pm

I don't use guitar plugins at all with Reaper.  Since I got the Spark amp, I just plug it in and find a voice for the guitars and bass that I like.  I can use it as an input direct to the computer or run it through my interface.  For what I am doing right now, my rhythm guitars are a composite of Nina Strauss's Alice Cooper sound and Jake E. Lee's from his Ozzy days.  For bass, I am using Geezer Butler's Sabbath sound but turned off the fuzz he liked to use.  I am pretty happy with the tones.  If I could only get my leads finished, I would be thrilled.
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Post by Constantine Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:29 pm

alldatndensum wrote:If I could only get my leads finished, I would be thrilled.
What style is the music?  I mostly do blues-rock (ZZ Top / Rolling Stones style) and rock (Doors / Joe Walsh / Pink Floyd style).   Can't do the widdly-fiddly, hi-tech metal stuff.
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Post by Sevenoneself Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:26 pm

I recently purchased a Strymon Iridium just a few weeks ago, upgrading from a SansAmp2. I love the sounds and the fact that it has a built-in room reverb. You can run an overdrive into it and get a nice gently-broken-up sound.

I play some high gain stuff with a Metal Zone (yes, I'm one of those, been playing one for about 20 years and it hasn't failed me yet!) and then softer rock and bluesy stuff with a Boss Waza Super Overdrive.
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Post by Constantine Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:03 am

Sevenoneself wrote:I play some high gain stuff with a Metal Zone (yes, I'm one of those, been playing one for about 20 years and it hasn't failed me yet!) and then softer rock and bluesy stuff with a Boss Waza Super Overdrive.
I had a Metal Zone and did not care for it because it was so noisy.  I sold it and am much happier with the distortions on the Matribox.

Have not used any Strymon products yet but am curious to try them one day.
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Post by Sevenoneself Fri Jun 09, 2023 11:08 am

Constantine wrote:
Sevenoneself wrote:I play some high gain stuff with a Metal Zone (yes, I'm one of those, been playing one for about 20 years and it hasn't failed me yet!) and then softer rock and bluesy stuff with a Boss Waza Super Overdrive.
I had a Metal Zone and did not care for it because it was so noisy.  I sold it and am much happier with the distortions on the Matribox.

Have not used any Strymon products yet but am curious to try them one day.

Do you use a noise gate? I have a Boss NS-2 noise suppressor. Instead of just being an in-line pedal, it has its own effects loop that I plug all my pedals into that can introduce noise into the signal: compressor, overdrive, MetalZone and Iridium. 

If I had do do it all over again I'd probably buy a distortion pedal or a multi-effects pedal that has a noisegate built in.

I'm considering changing my distortion pedal and trying something new. Perhaps the MXR Fullbore Metal. But I'm hesitant because I'm used to the metal zone and what I can do with it.
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Post by Constantine Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:14 pm

^I have two noise gate pedals (one is an EHX) but right now I'm not using them because the Matribox has a built-in noise gate.

That Boss NS-2 sounds interesting though.   Here is an excerpt from an Amazon review that sounds helpful if I ever were to get one:

"Second, follow the instructions- this is important. You need to loop your noisy pedals through this pedal so that it can do its job.

Example with many popular types of pedals:
Guitar -> Tuner -> Wah -> Compressor -> NS-2 [loop send] -> Phaser -> Flanger -> Chorus -> OD -> Fuzz -> NS-2 [loop return] -> Trem -> EQ -> Reverb -> Delay -> Amp

Notice the NS-2 loop lives between the Compressor and the Tremolo in the above example.

Set it up this way, then finesse the Threshold and Decay knobs to your liking and you'll have yourself an amazing tool that keeps your rig whisper quiet until you want it to be loud."

Regarding the MXR Fullbore, it is very different from the Metal Zone.  For rhythm I like it much better because it is very tight and less noisy, and also has a more powerful bottom end.  It is also more versatile.  It gets a few bad reviews but it is a much better pedal than I expected.  However I do not care for it for a lead tone, or at least I have not been able to get the sound I am looking for from it.  I actually have one up for sale but postage costs would be high to Canada.

I'd say it would be good if you are looking for a tight, powerful rhythm tone.  For lead, it sounds closer to a fuzz than a distortion pedal.

Right now a goal is to find a way to get a fatter lead tone.   Given my combination of guitar pick-ups, amps and effects, I may need to upgrade a few things to get there.
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Post by Sevenoneself Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:33 am

^^ Thanks for the info on the fullbore. I think I demoed one in a music store once a few years ago. I just wasn't ready to switch things up at that time. Also, back then my electric didn't have super hot pickups, and so I needed something like the MetalZone to get enough gain for soloing. I find it works well on the bridge pickup, but sounds horrible on the other one.

And I don't agree with that Amazon review, at least in his comments about pedal order. Compressors can add noise to the signal, they need to be in the effects loop. Phasers, flangers, chorus do not add any noise and do not need to be in the NS-2's loop. This is what is recommended in the boss webpage, except they place the compressor outside of the NS-2; I can see their point.

Again, I think that all distortion pedals should come with a built-in noisegate, because most are impossible to use live without one. Multi-effects pedals are great for this.
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Post by Constantine Fri Jul 07, 2023 8:43 pm

Someone just bought my MXR Fullbore on Reverb....time to pack it up and ship it out tomorrow.  I will have a few other cheap pedals to put up for sale in the next few months.
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Post by guitarhoops Wed Oct 18, 2023 10:11 pm

Wow it has been a while since I read this thread. My last two albums I recorded and released, all the guitars were recorded with various distortion pedals into the Mooer Radar direct into my interface. I also used the Strymon Iridum and one of the distortion pedals was my Sansamp GT2. Let me know what you think.

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Post by Sevenoneself Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:30 am

I had never seen the Mooer Radar before. Very cool. I still use the older Fender Mini DI on my pedalboard so I can go direct with an XLR to the PA system in our church.

I'm going to listen to some of your stuff in the next week or so. Thanks for posting it! I might ask more questions once I do. I use the Iridium and the GT2 and might be interested in which songs used what. But don't bother commenting until I've listened.
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